The GDKP Problem

[Celarent]

It's not though. It's simply the most efficient.

I don't mean "the only way" as necessity, I mean as preference.

Look at some of the vehement responses to the OP. Really, GDKP is essential to experiencing these games?

As far as efficiency, hacking the game would be plenty efficient. Doesn't mean it's not a violation of the letter or spirit of ToS. There is still a thing as considering the ethics of actions taken as players. And that's before turning to the point made by Kralljin about economic effects.

[Jotaux]

I have never bought gold and I run in a gdkp group every week. Its great, you have decent players (for classic wow), and the gold kind of just gets passed around. I'm sitting at 23k and I haven't had to farm anything. Are there people who buy gold? Of course, I'd bet at least 20% of the people playing classic period are buying gold. People that play classic want everything to be easy but tricked themselves into thinking it's hard.

[Dequanacus]

The prob with gold dkp is it promotes buying gold

Every facet of the game promotes spending real money to that degree. I can pay people to play my account for me if I so choose. I can pay people real money to allow me to join a raid. Overly burdening player choice to combat an inevitability seems like a net loss especially where, as the point has been made in this thread, one can easily acquire the gold through legal means to gear through GDKPs, or simply raid with people that do not GDKP.

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I don't mean "the only way" as necessity, I mean as preference.

Look at some of the vehement responses to the OP. Really, GDKP is essential to experiencing these games?

As far as efficiency, hacking the game would be plenty efficient. Doesn't mean it's not a violation of the letter or spirit of ToS. There is still a thing as considering the ethics of actions taken as players. And that's before turning to the point made by Kralljin about economic effects.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in quoting and responding to only that single sentence.

Really, GDKP is essential to experiencing these games?

I'm not sure who or where you are deriving that sentiment from and if you read the entirety of my posts, I feel the points I made are quite clear, and as far as preference is concerned, again, the game allows players to pursue what ever their preference is.

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People actually defending this....sigh Its 100% botted and or bought gold. Dont kid yourself, the people who blow 10-50k gold...AH play, grinding? What. Im a seasoned AH player on retail since end of wotlk, sitting at 40 million atm, but even a rich goblin like me gets it.

I mean, what are you disputing about

I'm not sure why, with so much gold already in the player economy, anyone would need to buy gold. I can farm primals for 3 hours a day and get about 1200g worth of primals. GDKPs themselves will pay out over 1k each and even just doing dailies or the like will get me around 150g an hour.

The items in the GDKPs do not even need to go for absurd amounts (one can full t5 gear a character, even prior to SWP, with just a few thousand) and yet I still make over 10k a week without needing to pay a cent and with no amount of AH flipping or any of the many other ways of making gold.

We're at a point where gold buying is almost entirely irrelevant and unnecessary. So much gold is already in the economy that one can easily sustain themselves.

[vindicatorx]

If Blizzard wants to improve classic for new players, I believe removing GDKPs is the best way to begin.

There are tons of Double SR's out there the issue people have is they don't carry deadweight and if you aren't a desired class you won't get a spot. Your best bet is find a guild and go that route. If not learn your class and parse well. I mean I think it's pretty silly to expect Blizzard to do away with a completely by the rules system because some new guy who isn't trying to get into raiding the normal route cries about how unfair they are.

[Mhyroth]

These people, while might have RMT are also players who have been doing GDKPs with big payoffs for the past 2+ years. If you were to do nothing but GDKP content on a lucrative character (such as a shaman in tbc or a high performing dps) then you can quite easily have well above gold cap in just earnings, even after buying all the gear for that phase on your main.

The problem is that people are characterizing the gdkp prices really freaking weirdly and it shows they don't play the game themselves. Because if you were doing them and making potentially 10k+ a week in WoW then 200k for glaive isn't that much.

As a prot paladin i've made well over 10k just lazily doing ZA on non guild raid IDs through tanking services, I get paid anywhere between 500 and 1.5k per run, just for tanking.

I'm not disputing the existence of whales either, it's the fact that the entire thread is laced in ignorance pertaining to gdkps in general as if it is a rmt haven when as it stands, you have no reason to rmt if you want to participate and - it's way too expensive right now which is why when rmt is discussed it's always through a lens of like there goes a saudi prince and/or Elon Musk.

So those level 60 Rogues in Ramparts are non-existent ans don't farm Gold at all for people to buy.
The Gold has to come from *somewhere*. 400g a day for Dailies is nothing when people drop 150k on an item. No sane person does that. It's pretty obvious (even to people who participate in GDKPs) where the Gold comes from but you make it out as if people used 3 years to grind out their ass.

A poll showed not long ago 40% (if not more) of the players buy/bought Gold. It's delusional to think otherwise and say it's all legit.

[kranur]

There are tons of Double SR's out there the issue people have is they don't carry deadweight and if you aren't a desired class you won't get a spot. Your best bet is find a guild and go that route. If not learn your class and parse well. I mean I think it's pretty silly to expect Blizzard to do away with a completely by the rules system because some new guy who isn't trying to get into raiding the normal route cries about how unfair they are.

This pretty much. Some people seem to expect to log in and be invited to groups for the instances/raids they want to run because they think the earth spins around them or something.
They don't want to join a guild and commit to a 2 day raid schedule, don't want to join a new or lesser guild that is still doing old content without much demands, don't want to spend a little time looking for SR groups, don't want to join GDKP cause they don't have gold.
People are delusional if they "remember" back in tbc that t5 or t6 pugs were a common thing. Sunwell pugging was just not a thing outside of trash farming. The only thing that is not happening or just very rarely is Kara non-GDKP pugs and that probably cause it's inefficient as you can get many crafted pieces for next to nothing and jump into ZA where there are still plenty SR groups with only a few demanding t6 geared people for whatever reason.

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So those level 60 Rogues in Ramparts are non-existent ans don't farm Gold at all for people to buy.
The Gold has to come from *somewhere*. 400g a day for Dailies is nothing when people drop 150k on an item. No sane person does that. It's pretty obvious (even to people who participate in GDKPs) where the Gold comes from but you make it out as if people used 3 years to grind out their ass.

A poll showed not long ago 40% (if not more) of the players buy/bought Gold. It's delusional to think otherwise and say it's all legit.

So we're pretending that people didn't buy gold at all times in WoW from vanilla to SL right? Not saying it's ok, but at least let's not pretend that buying gold sold by bots is this new thing.

[RayenDark]

While an unpopular opinion if they want to stop the third party gold buying they need to add the wow token to classic.

[Dequanacus]

The Gold has to come from *somewhere*. 400g a day for Dailies is nothing when people drop 150k on an item.

See

I get the impression that you are taking select items that you have seen go for absurd amounts of gold and making it the norm. I see most items in GDKPs go for under 1k, and many others not go for much more. Obviously big ticket items are more likely to balloon in prices but far as simply gearing out your character in mostly optimal raid gear, the cost of entry really isn't that high.

I'm not sure what is gained from arguing in bad faith. You even say

It's delusional to think otherwise and say it's all legit.

When the poster you replied to explicitly says, in the very post you replied to, that they acknowledge that some people are whales, but is only disputing claims that it is, as they say an 'rmt haven'.
A vast majority of the items do not go for 150k, 100k, or so on. 99% of the items go for amounts easily gained and one can easily stockpile enough to get most big ticket items without needing to buy gold.

[Ryzeth]

I stopped reading at "the game is so pay to win"


No, it isn't. Stop making up your own definitions of the phrase. Buying gold from gold sellers, so that you can do GDKP runs isn't pay to win. That's a choice you make, not something done by Blizzard.

[Kralljin]

While an unpopular opinion if they want to stop the third party gold buying they need to add the wow token to classic.

Didn't stop it in Retail, neither did it stop botting.

All it did was give Blizzard another way to monetize WoW and give people who wanted to buy a gold a legal way.

[Dequanacus]

While an unpopular opinion if they want to stop the third party gold buying they need to add the wow token to classic.

I think it's less about third parties and more about not wanting people to have a means of buying gold period.

What most people seem to ignore and avoid acknowledging, (judging at least from this thread) is that gold buying is inconsequential as one can simply join a guild and raid normally, and, even if they feel obligated to GDKP, can easily fully gear their character with the several means of earning gold ingame. All of these (100k for an item) is a rare occurrence, and is essentially the equivalent of joining a top end raiding guild to get a BiS item right as it comes out, or be chosen to get a legendary.

Really, I genuinely do not get what impact gold selling has on anyone's ability to play the game. It comes off as an excuse not to think because you can just go "gold selling bad" as a means of disparaging the game without actually needing to make a reasoned argument. Again something that can be proven by reading this thread.

[Tyris Flare]

Nope. You're wrong. P2W started with a handful of games where you paid real money to purchase an item that gave you more benefit in-game than what you could get within the game. GDKP is not P2W because you can acquire the gold within the game normally and it does not involve real gold.

You can ignore that I've been playing 30+ MMOs for 25 years now and say I'm not an expert -- I'm fine with that but it does mean I was around when P2W started and know exactly how it works and I'm sick of people coming along and changing the original meaning to whatever they want because that can't handle losing an argument. You're wrong.

The world isn't black and white. If you can log into a game and buy the best gear from the shop, that is obviously 10/10 p2w. If there's no money changing hands anywhere and everything is only attainable in game (and developers crack down on in-game sales), that would be a 0/10. Almost everything in reality exists between these two spectrums.

It also depends what the "goal" of the game is. For example, you can buy the best gear in GW2 from the auction house, but item level has been capped since 2014 and never changes. Is that p2w if you can earn it in a few hours of normal play? Maybe, but it's certainly not as bad as if wow was selling full 278 gear from the AH because gear resets are a major driver of the game. And what about games where it is advertised that you can technically get everything by playing like STO or Neverwinter, but it would take 10,000 hours instead of 0 if you just bought currency?

Most mobile games are like 8-10/10, in my experience. Retail wow with the token is maybe a 6 to me, because you can't buy gear directly but you can just spend gold and boost (though with random drops, you may never actually get what you want.

Context matters! Nuance matters! You can ignore it if you want, but this is the problem with binary thinking.

[RayenDark]

Didn't stop it in Retail, neither did it stop botting.

All it did was give Blizzard another way to monetize WoW and give people who wanted to buy a gold a legal way.

And clearly if people are buying gold from a third party there is a demand for it. It won't stop it but it will reduce it. It did reduce it in retail.

[Kralljin]

And clearly if people are buying gold from a third party there is a demand for it.

That's not exactly a brand new revelation.

It won't stop it but it will reduce it. It did reduce it in retail.

It also coincided with a massive increase in popularity of the boosting service, so i don't exactly see what we're gaining here.

[Toby451]

Didn't stop it in Retail, neither did it stop botting.

All it did was give Blizzard another way to monetize WoW and give people who wanted to buy a gold a legal way.

You are confused. The WoW token was never intended to "stop" gold selling. That is an impossible goal to achievement.


As you said the WoW token was to allow a safe, easy way for people to do it without going to shady 3rd party sites, getting their account, and even more important, credit cards/identities stolen. Yes Blizzard also gets a cut, so its a win/win for them. The only people that are losing are the illegal gold sellers. The WoW token hit them hard.




Anywho, join a guild if you want to raid without doing GDKP runs. Its not that hard people. If you just want to log in and clear the raids once a week with a bunch of faceless ghosts you will never play with again, LFR was made just for you.

[Kralljin]

You are confused. The WoW token was never intended to "stop" gold selling. That is an impossible goal to achievement.

Has little to with my "confusion" but rather using the words of the post i've quoted.

While an unpopular opinion if they want to stop the third party gold buying they need to add the wow token to classic.

[Rusken]

Weird to me that people like and defend GDKP's at all. The outright pay-to-win that Classic has become with them is beyond saving. You can start a new account, chuck $1000 at it and be max level fully geared in a couple weeks. The only thing is you're not paying Blizzard you're paying the gold seller website for the gold to buy level boosts then to buy gear in GDKP's.

Sure you can join a guild, raid with them for months and months and maybe get most of your BiS pieces before the end, or you can just buy gold and buy gear and be done in 2 weeks. Which if Arugal is anything to go off, is far more prevalent than people here might like to think.

[callipygoustp]

What's the alternative to the "GDKP Problem"?

[Dequanacus]

Weird to me that people like and defend GDKP's at all.

You could always read the thread.

[TheEaterofSouls]

What's the alternative to the "GDKP Problem"?

Just give people the option to use personal loot. It won't kill GDKP, but it will encourage more pugs to run without it.

As someone who's never played much classic until now GDKP is horrible for people who aren't already invested in it. There needs to be something to incentivize groups to invite newer and poorer players.