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  1. #81
    Brack was soooo right lmao.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by TheEaterofSouls View Post
    As someone who's never played much classic until now GDKP is horrible for people who aren't already invested in it.
    You say that, but many posts in this thread provide reasoning as to why GDKPs are not horrible for these people, and all of these posts have gone unargued.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekekz View Post
    Everyone hated BC, everyone hated Wrath, everyone hated Cata and everyone will hate MoP. MoP will become the new worst expansion and Al'akir or BoT will become the new "last good raid" or something stupid like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    You're now blocked. Told you I was done with you. You want to pick fights over minute details as if this is the fucking presidential debate on a gaming forum.
    Enjoy.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhyroth View Post
    A poll showed not long ago 40% (if not more) of the players buy/bought Gold. It's delusional to think otherwise and say it's all legit.
    What poll?

  4. #84
    Herald of the Titans Maruka's Avatar
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    I actually like GDKPs while admitting that they further hurt the economy by pushing gold buying. Its so obvious who buys gold in some of the runs, i can make as much in a week these days with one T6 run then i grind in a month outside of the raids.

    One massive advantage i love that pushes me to run GDKPs is that the runs never break up after a wipe mid way through, people dont leave because they wont get their gold leading to not wasting time ruining a reset.

  5. #85
    Brewmaster Skylarking's Avatar
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    Removing gdkp won't do anything. Address the problem not the symptoms.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    The world isn't black and white. If you can log into a game and buy the best gear from the shop, that is obviously 10/10 p2w. If there's no money changing hands anywhere and everything is only attainable in game (and developers crack down on in-game sales), that would be a 0/10. Almost everything in reality exists between these two spectrums.

    It also depends what the "goal" of the game is. For example, you can buy the best gear in GW2 from the auction house, but item level has been capped since 2014 and never changes. Is that p2w if you can earn it in a few hours of normal play? Maybe, but it's certainly not as bad as if wow was selling full 278 gear from the AH because gear resets are a major driver of the game. And what about games where it is advertised that you can technically get everything by playing like STO or Neverwinter, but it would take 10,000 hours instead of 0 if you just bought currency?

    Most mobile games are like 8-10/10, in my experience. Retail wow with the token is maybe a 6 to me, because you can't buy gear directly but you can just spend gold and boost (though with random drops, you may never actually get what you want.

    Context matters! Nuance matters! You can ignore it if you want, but this is the problem with binary thinking.
    It's NOT binary thinking... you have the original concept of P2W and then people get lazy and keep adding and changing it to suit their narrative. That isn't how things work. That kind of thinking is where you have something that ISN'T P2W and then something that IS P2W ... that is the exact concept of black or white. It either IS... P2W or it's NOT.

    GDKP is not P2W because all of the gold and the items are in the game and are acquirable. If you had World of Warcraft in Patch 9.2.5 on Tuesday drops and the WoW Store has tokens you can buy for $4.99 that change your Tier gear to higher than Mythic tier. That... is P2W. However, on Tuesday when the patch drops and people go into Mythic Sylvanus and there are 8 warriors that will pay gold for Old Warriors Soul... that ISN'T P2W.

    That is the context of this conversation as it started about GDKP which is why I keep digging my feet in over the definition of P2W because I am not backing down. GDKP is not P2W. I understand your perspective about mobile games and context matters but in this example... Context does matter and I'm not backing down. Every time I see one of these arguments happen it always ends up being 1-2 people constantly pushing back because they don't want to lose or they don't like or agree with the comments and the person who replies back ends up going "whatever" and backs down. I am not backing down.

  7. #87
    I run a guild AND host a GDKP run weekly. Both are viable routes for gearing. I also host pug groups (usually 2 SR) multiple times a week. I have 4 toons in T6 gear and only 1 is geared from GDKP runs. 2 are from guild runs and I also have a warlock I geared in various pugs (post ZA 2SR became insanely easy to host). This entire post is whiney BS. GDKPs are great for getting gold for frivilous stuff but guilds are the easiest route to gearing. Yes it is slow and takes time but I suspect that is the OPs issue here. He expects to raid Sunwell the week he hits 70. This isn't retail. You have to build yourself up to raid the endgame content.

  8. #88
    "It's nearly impossible to get into TBC now!"

    We're literally like 3 months away from Wrath. If you're just now "getting into" TBC, I wouldn't put any stock into trying to raid seriously. Just level, hoard gold and prepare for Wrath.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    That logic doesn't make much sense because it basically categorize almost every game in existence as "pay to win", even those without microtransactions. After all, ever since day one, you could "spend real life money to get gear" in WoW, since you needed to pay an active subscription to be able to get gear.
    The two are not comparable. One is the baseline cost of the game - nobody playing the game isn't paying that cost. The other is direct money to power gain equivalence.

  10. #90
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    The two are not comparable. One is the baseline cost of the game - nobody playing the game isn't paying that cost. The other is direct money to power gain equivalence.
    That's the point, though. Because your comparison fails. You're adding extra steps to define something that is not "pay to win" as "pay to win". Buying the token and selling it in the auction house gives you in-game gold, but in-game gold is not a "premium currency that can be used to buy exclusive items". The same gold you get by selling a token in the auction house is the exact same gold that is readily and easily available everywhere in-game without having to spend a single dime.

    Hell, I'd have to spend at least a hundred dollars each month to make the same amount of gold I make just by vendoring all the dungeon and boss loot, and selling on the AH the BoEs that I find while hunting for transmogs for myself, not to mention selling potions and flasks in the AH.

    Tell me: how are you "winning" by using real money to buy the exact same currency everyone can gather by simply playing the game?
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  11. #91
    Yeah the cancer of GDKP actually killed my TBCC experience.

    Basically all PUGS have been overrun by GDPK with gold that has been purchased with real-life money. If you want to participate in end-game content, it's either buy gold with money or join a guild that is still running older content to gear you up. There's almost no option to pug now since the only pugs are GDKP runs.

    It's systemic and pervasive and really ruins the experience. If Blizzard wants to address the issue they really need to crack down on botters, gold sellers and gold buyers.
    Last edited by Th3Scourge; 2022-05-30 at 06:41 AM.

  12. #92
    GDKP is the new logs. Oh no, pugs wont invite me, i cant play the game. You can play the game fine, just join a guild or pugs which arent gdkp. Except people dont want to do that, because joining a guild which fails tbc mechanics sucks and good players join gdkp pugs, not regular pugs. So we are back at square 1, ppl cant get free carries anymore as they dont get invited to guilds/good pugs (the gdkp ones) and want to blame something that doesnt even affect them.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    GDKP is the new logs.
    ...except logs don't promote RMT or cause massive inflation.

  14. #94
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The-Shan View Post

    You cannot start classic as a new player with no connections and gear up to raid at this point.
    n.

    Not true.

    Kara badge runs run nearly daily and gear req. is really low for the most part. You can create a group and get going easily too and you´ll find full T6 people willing to join in.
    The same goes for ZA, but you will need at least full Kara gear, ofc.

    Having full Kara and a couple of crafted higher end BoEs also enables you to join some SSC and specially TK runs. Although harder to find, there are some pugs.

    MH and BT? sure, that is a but harder to get into maybe, but hey, that´s where a guild comes in None should be able to raid those without a guid in a regular basis tbh. It defeats the purpose of having a social aspect...

    Consider also that all badge loot is now available too. A few BIS items can be found among all those and some close to BIS or more than good enough..

    MgT offers some great loot too for someone gearing up.

    So, all in all, you can get yourself BT ready relatively easy now a days.

    If none of the above works, it is because you do not want it to work. And that is okay, you can still... JOIN A GUILD and raid, work your way up from the button like we all did at one point There are plenty of grown up busy people guilds who raid casually, still manage to secure kara runs, ZA runs, even BT clears and some SWP progress with just 6 hours of raiding a week.


    -------------------------

    Then GDKP and economy, you are right.

    GDKP is the actual root source of gold buying and so the root reason of the economy being so wreked.
    It has come to a point where farming resources is simply not worth it... You cannot make any gold out of it, not considering the high volumes moving around anyway.

    Plus it sucks as game experience too: people are selling and profiting out of the game, instead of making it an experience. That is the HUGE different between classic and the original game experience. This did not happen before, not even at 10% of what it is today anyway. No gaming social aspect involve, just cold trade transactions. That is not an MMORPG...

    Plus (bonus)... then you find protection paladins with T6 pieces who can´t even do basic LOS pulls or don´t know what RF is... Absolute disgusting P2W players with high end gear... totally out of context

    Back in the day those were people who´d have bought accounts, so easy to spot. Today, we have them all over but instead they buy loot and then reserve things constantly as a condition to borrow their shit skills to a group. Quite a comedy indeed
    Last edited by shise; 2022-05-30 at 08:27 AM.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Hm, whales will spend literally thousands, when it's not tens of thousands of dollars in cosmetics or timer-skip mechanics in other games. I definitely see some people throwing down a hundred on an especially valuable piece of loot. Not even close to the majority, sure, but then again it's not even close to the majority of players that farm gold for dozens if not a hundred hours for also one item either.

    I don't have much of a horse in this race, I'm not playing Classic but you're absolutely underestimating the money some people will throw at games. I don't even make that much IRL but if you twisted my arm and forced to choose between forking over a hundred for a BiS item or farming gold for more than 50 fucking hours to get it I'd take the former any day.
    You're trying to explain something to someone who likely is someone who massively benefits from GDKP and will not stand for people saying anything negative about it. I also asked if they don't know what a whale is and got no response. Like....the amount of farming that would be needed to afford most shit involved with GDKP is obscene and has led most people to just buy gold instead of spending time to get the gold manually.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothyjean View Post
    It's NOT binary thinking... you have the original concept of P2W and then people get lazy and keep adding and changing it to suit their narrative. That isn't how things work. That kind of thinking is where you have something that ISN'T P2W and then something that IS P2W ... that is the exact concept of black or white. It either IS... P2W or it's NOT.

    GDKP is not P2W because all of the gold and the items are in the game and are acquirable. If you had World of Warcraft in Patch 9.2.5 on Tuesday drops and the WoW Store has tokens you can buy for $4.99 that change your Tier gear to higher than Mythic tier. That... is P2W. However, on Tuesday when the patch drops and people go into Mythic Sylvanus and there are 8 warriors that will pay gold for Old Warriors Soul... that ISN'T P2W.

    That is the context of this conversation as it started about GDKP which is why I keep digging my feet in over the definition of P2W because I am not backing down. GDKP is not P2W. I understand your perspective about mobile games and context matters but in this example... Context does matter and I'm not backing down. Every time I see one of these arguments happen it always ends up being 1-2 people constantly pushing back because they don't want to lose or they don't like or agree with the comments and the person who replies back ends up going "whatever" and backs down. I am not backing down.
    Whether or not all the items are available is irrelevant. If you can pay real money to get an advantage in getting said items over other players, it's p2w. And since the vast majority of people blowing massive amounts of money on GDKP runs are buying gold from RMT, that makes GDKP into a form of p2w.

  16. #96
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    You're trying to explain something to someone who likely is someone who massively benefits from GDKP and will not stand for people saying anything negative about it. I also asked if they don't know what a whale is and got no response. Like....the amount of farming that would be needed to afford most shit involved with GDKP is obscene and has led most people to just buy gold instead of spending time to get the gold manually.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Whether or not all the items are available is irrelevant. If you can pay real money to get an advantage in getting said items over other players, it's p2w. And since the vast majority of people blowing massive amounts of money on GDKP runs are buying gold from RMT, that makes GDKP into a form of p2w.
    Exactly, hey, today we agree on this one

    Sadly tho, it´s not just a classic thing, it is happening a lot in retail too and selling boosts services are absurdly common.

    New generation of gamers surely suck But imo Blizzard could simply stop it all... but they are afraid to lose the subs. Which is no excuse, make the game better then.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    Exactly, hey, today we agree on this one

    Sadly tho, it´s not just a classic thing, it is happening a lot in retail too and selling boosts services are absurdly common.

    New generation of gamers surely suck But imo Blizzard could simply stop it all... but they are afraid to lose the subs. Which is no excuse, make the game better then.
    I'm aware. It's a plague on WoW as a whole that affects both Classic and retail. But there's too many whales benefitting that will defend it and they spend enough money for Blizzard to turn the other way and pretend they don't see it.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by WaltherLeopold View Post
    What poll?
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...uying_gold_in/

    https://imgur.com/a/QqYjBRA

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_8...Ps9MXS0_Zml3Zy

    Might not be accurate for the entire playerbase (since that's what people will say), but extrapolate these numbers and it's obvious people buy Gold to fund their Raiding and especially their GDKP runs. It's not all whales.
    2008 - 2018 World of Warcraft.
    Times change.

  19. #99
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I'm aware. It's a plague on WoW as a whole that affects both Classic and retail. But there's too many whales benefitting that will defend it and they spend enough money for Blizzard to turn the other way and pretend they don't see it.
    Yeah exactly. And even many of those are starting to "profit" from it, selling gold themselves or boosts on retail for actual money...Plenty of platforms out there with easy access to boosting services.. it is crazy.

  20. #100
    The impact on inflation is extreme but in reality it has little to no impact for many people in their ability to access raids.

    Start your own runs or join a guild if you're unable to access the raids themselves.

    If you're being priced out of consumables create your own or craft and sell them.

    Blizzard does not to tackle the issue but their solution will be to launch the Token in Classic. I'm shocked it's not already implemented and will be genuinely surprised if it doesn't come during Wrath.

    Blizzard must know Wrath will be their most popular iteration of Classic and so this is their last chance to cash in on it before the inevitable slump in numbers with Cataclysm Classic.

    They'll launch the Token, gold sellers will lose out - but not disappear entirely - and the impact will still exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by KayRule View Post
    I'm sorry, the writing is on the wall. Tinker is coming. You can either get over yourself and stop crying about them not including your dream OC class concepts invented from thin air and enjoy the eventual reveal, or keep crying for another expansion.

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