1. #1

    Another fine example of Blizzard in-ept pvp lead and Pvp design.

    Nerf Destruction warlocks? Remove Demon Armor???? Are you serious? The set bonus was the only thing done right for destruction and now you remove the infernal stun in pvp????? But classes like hunters (The most braindead class in the game) are allowed to kill you with impunity with their set bonuses?? They absorb all your damage with feign death, still cleanse dots, and nothing is done, but you buff BM hunter, again? Warlocks have no defensives against melee classes. Demon Armor was the only damage mitigation ability, and the fact that this joke of a company stated that they were not going to continue to PRUNE ABILITIES from the game anymore, this is a slap in the face. Destruction has no healing abilities outside of Mortal coil or health stone, and that stays on a a hard-locked cooldown unless you break combat, and the cooldown itself is too long

    Classes like fury warrior , hunter and WW monk have 100% uptime on you fear doesn't work, when melee classes can leap/ dash/charge you instantly, and hunters can just break target lock if you try to cast fear, then they can just instantly heal all the damage done to them, thanks to brain dead blanket heals. Howl Of Terror as a talent? it is no longer taken because no warlock player would ever take it over mortal coil. Fear isn't even worth casting, since everyone has some way of punishing you for casting it, its either abilities, or the resolve trinkets, or the PASSIVE RESOLVE TRINKET THAT NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN ADDED TO THE GAME. I dont see how whoever is in charge of pvp right now thinks this change to warlock is fine in any way shape or form.

  2. #2
    if you make the font a bit bigger people might are able to read it

  3. #3
    All I got from this is you think BM needs a nerf now

  4. #4
    PvP continues to be shit and has generally become worse as the game continues to age. They don't have a single developer with a defining vision of the PvP metagame and prefer to listen to crying on twitter; followed up by reactionary nerfs.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Julmara View Post
    if you make the font a bit bigger people might are able to read it
    if your font was bigger, women might be able to feel it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eladia View Post
    PvP continues to be shit and has generally become worse as the game continues to age. They don't have a single developer with a defining vision of the PvP metagame and prefer to listen to crying on twitter; followed up by reactionary nerfs.
    yeah i just don't see how demon armor was so game breaking that it needed to be removed. It makes no sense.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Athorha View Post
    All I got from this is you think BM needs a nerf now
    ok, if that all you see., ok.

  6. #6
    OP is right, destro lock is only scary because of borrowed power from this patch. Double leggo, set bonuses and the resolve trinket. Very similar to frost mages. These classes are being punished for being too strong because of bonuses to their spec. The new cc trinkets should have never been added to the game, caster cleaves would be a lot less scary if they couldn’t freely decimate you. Sure it feels bad lock procs big bolts, but what’s the difference between that and MM double tap? Assass rogue full dot sepsis/vendetta vanish? A lot of classes have crazy burst that will global you. GL as a lock after this week, melee cleaves will reign supreme again and they will be coming for that ass.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lakeshark View Post
    OP is right, destro lock is only scary because of borrowed power from this patch. Double leggo, set bonuses and the resolve trinket. Very similar to frost mages. These classes are being punished for being too strong because of bonuses to their spec. The new cc trinkets should have never been added to the game, caster cleaves would be a lot less scary if they couldn’t freely decimate you. Sure it feels bad lock procs big bolts, but what’s the difference between that and MM double tap? Assass rogue full dot sepsis/vendetta vanish? A lot of classes have crazy burst that will global you. GL as a lock after this week, melee cleaves will reign supreme again and they will be coming for that ass.
    This guy gets it.

  8. #8
    Do what I did after BFA. Forget about and disregard pvp. It's only ever going to piss you off and is not worth your time. These developers are inept and always will be. If you don't enjoy the pve part of the game, quit.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Do what I did after BFA. Forget about and disregard pvp. It's only ever going to piss you off and is not worth your time. These developers are inept and always will be. If you don't enjoy the pve part of the game, quit.
    100%.

    Nothing is like WoW when it comes to PvE. PvP is good - if arousal to selfharm is something.

  10. #10
    just lvl ur char for wotlk classic and ull be fine

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lakeshark View Post
    Very similar to frost mages.
    Not similar at all, frost has been largely viable only because of destro. The spec was carried because it played well with destro and the trinket.

    Also sepsis and double tap etc. are on a set timer. A valid comparison would be 6-second wings on a ret paladin or something.
    Last edited by Thes; 2022-06-07 at 11:49 AM.

  12. #12
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    I tried to watch the AWC lately and the ones a few weeks back.
    RMP, RMP, RMP, RMP, or a destro comp (before nerfbat). Oh, EU got one jungle there as well and US a SP. But thats it, RMP, RMP RMP.
    Then again it has been the staple since I started playing in TBC with very limited substitutes depending on patch and/or expansion.

    I know Arena aint the pvp goto for balance, all niches are really. But I think the last time I enjoyed BG, RBG and 3v3 (had to be carried ) was 2 or 3 expansions ago.
    Only set in stone feature is that PvP has been neglected in all its forms for several expansions.

    So utterly boring to even watch.
    Last edited by Bakis; 2022-06-09 at 11:43 PM.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    I tried to watch the AWC lately and the ones a few weeks back.
    RMP, RMP, RMP, RMP, or a destro comp (before nerfbat). Oh, EU got one jungle there as well and US a SP. But thats it, RMP, RMP RMP.
    Then again it has been the staple since I started playing in TBC with very limited substitutes depending on patch and/or expansion.

    I know Arena aint the pvp goto for balance, all niches are really. But I think the last time I enjoyed BG, RBG and 3v3 (had to be carried ) was 2 or 3 expansions ago.
    Only set in stone feature is that PvP has been neglected in all its forms for several expansions.

    So utterly boring to even watch.
    yeah, basicly WoD was the last good pvp expansion, when classes were fun to play in pvp. Legion destroyed that with their radical class and pvp system changes. That wasn't their best idea. MoP to WoD and classes lost a shit ton of abilities to make pvp faster, in many cases that felt ok, game played more fluid, MoP was really bloated for many classes, but some of the most creative talents got lost, like druid's symbioses the most awesome talent in pvp of all time.

    I'd give BfA some credit for trying hard on wpvp, there were no big rewards, but at least stuff happened in the open world and more so than in other expansions, WoD/MoP included. Wish, we could return to that non instanced fun aspect in DF. The game seems open enough for that.

    Every little thing makes pvp bigger.

    Btw i played RM, never RMP but RM allready felt really, really overpowered in synergies compared to most other comps. To weaken RM/P in 2s and 3s blizz needs to overhaul the concept of CC in their game, pretty radically. Its the only way to weaken RMP synergies. Its not really the classes itself, but their combined cc spam.
    Last edited by Tyrannica; 2022-06-10 at 11:27 AM.

  14. #14
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    yeah, basicly WoD was the last good pvp expansion, when classes were fun to play in pvp. Legion destroyed that with their radical class and pvp system changes. That wasn't their best idea. MoP to WoD and classes lost a shit ton of abilities to make pvp faster, in many cases that felt ok, game played more fluid, MoP was really bloated for many classes, but some of the most creative talents got lost, like druid's symbioses the most awesome talent in pvp of all time.

    I'd give BfA some credit for trying hard on wpvp, there were no big rewards, but at least stuff happened in the open world and more so than in other expansions, WoD/MoP included. Wish, we could return to that non instanced fun aspect in DF. The game seems open enough for that.

    Every little thing makes pvp bigger.

    Btw i played RM, never RMP but RM allready felt really, really overpowered in synergies compared to most other comps. To weaken RM/P in 2s and 3s blizz needs to overhaul the concept of CC in their game, pretty radically. Its the only way to weaken RMP synergies. Its not really the classes itself, but their combined cc spam.
    I started in TBC so I had figured out the PvE (SB spam and play 10h/day got that shit sorted) but I never got to understand the power of SL/SL in time for Wrath.
    After that RBG launch was the most fun I had as well as actually Wintergrasp and that other bigass BG with the zeppelin parachute and stuff.
    Thats the only 3 positions in time that i enjoyed PvP for being a ton of fun and thats since 2007 so hmm... yea..
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    I started in TBC so I had figured out the PvE (SB spam and play 10h/day got that shit sorted) but I never got to understand the power of SL/SL in time for Wrath.
    After that RBG launch was the most fun I had as well as actually Wintergrasp and that other bigass BG with the zeppelin parachute and stuff.
    Thats the only 3 positions in time that i enjoyed PvP for being a ton of fun and thats since 2007 so hmm... yea..
    Nice Bro, i started in s2 in TBC as SL/SL lock, best looking tier set + god mode.(something today holy priests and outlaw rogues might feel in retail) I never questioned why i, as a noob back in 2007 could have such good results in the bgs just gladly accepted it and took the flames, later they nerfed drain life to be affected by MS, stuff like this got lost on the classic TBC severs today...Rogue felt great, too, look at tier pvp guides for wrath rogues are not that great anymore compared to TBC(as a class not in regards to RMP), i know warlocks are average, too at best and very weak with low gear despite resilence working now against non-crit damage, too.(actually this seems odd......but warlocks complained a lot back in wrath forums that they are only there to do pve and are killed for pvp purposes)MM Hunter, Warrior and Ele scham are S+ tier in arenas and bgs(hunter one shots with arp exploit)

    In a way it might be exciting for me to play wrath again, i think i will do that, stayed in retail pvp and took same breaks off in SL, hardly bothered about classic + TBC, because classic is a bit too ancient and TBC was played to death by me in pvp, but in wrath i did only raid with the lock and a mage.

    Will be fun to find out how people think DK is great in wrath while it isn't, s8 compared to s5 the dk felt very impotent and castrated and did little dmg outside of the 3 min gargoyle cd, on top of that we will have little gear in phase 1 lol.

    And a S5 with DKs greatly nerfed to the ground with a wotlk final patch never existed before.Might be hard to predict anything, even shadow priests could top pvp tier charts, cause broken stuff like MM Hunter will lack the penetration armor stats in first phase.

    Dunno, i will look into Dragon Flight pvp for sure and will kill time either way by replaying a weird WotlK PvP manifestation lacking all the patch and class changes and progresses done, or just do something else. Might wait a little bit for that sweet ICC gear, to gear up a MM hunter and farm kills in lvl80 bgs like i was in a lvl19 twink bg.

    Think MoP would be the best PvP expansion to repeat - it had very creative class talents, like i mentioned symbiosis was the best, warlock design was great as demology until they nerfed it. Chaos waves could kill multiple geared people i guess they had to tone it down. MoP had the best class design ever and it translated well into pvp.

    DF better be like MoP!

  16. #16
    I'll be very honest, the game philosophy of the current Combat Lead and that team in general is not very enticing, and ever since they got in charge (late MoP, so impact on class design started mainly in WoD) PvP has been suffering.

    No CC (or well, only RMP)
    Tons of anti-CC
    Simplified gameplay beyond compare
    Almost all class design tailored for PvE content (with a mere 3 PvP talent slots to fix all the issues, lol)

    It's basically the perfect conditions for zugzug - which is what we've seen (only exception being RMP, everything else has become increasingly zugzugified).

  17. #17
    Pit Lord Dristereau's Avatar
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    Hunter isn't as insane in 3v3 as 2v2, but Craven Strategem does screw over Warlocks, mainly Affli and UH DKs. I do wonder if they went too far with the Affli/Destro nerfs, removing Demon Armor and they just get completely crushed but Demo Lock is stronger with the MS buff and seems to be doing fine.

    I think my biggest issues right now are Holy Priest and Outlaw Rogue. Holy Priest is dominating the meta, making all other healers seem irrelevant. Disc feels like a garbage Holy Priest with less throughput and damage. I don't really understand why this spec has barely been touched this Season when back in April it made up 40% of all healers in 2v2 and 3v3 yet prior to this season was no where near as dominant. Outlaw's CD reduction and general always available CDs is insane. Being able to kidney two targets at the same time, Blind CD being so much lower than Assass/Sub, I've even seen Evasion almost back into Evasion.

    The Tournaments (AWC) has been embarrassing and boring from my POV. The vast majority of the comps are RMP with either Sub or Outlaw. There's also Liquid sometimes playing double Outlaw which I don't like either personally, double of one spec is bad from my POV. I would also suggest some more changes to Fire Mage and Sub Rogue, but I think Outlaw/Holy Priest is a bigger issue.
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  18. #18
    It's wild to me that RMP is still a thing. The very first arena comp I ever played in TBC 15 years ago was RMP lol. I only played it a little bit, and never again, but it's honestly kinda cool to see the utility and complementary nature of these three classes be sustained for so long.

    But at the same time, Blizz isn't doing themselves any favors by allowing it to dominate in AWC so much. I don't know the synergies well enough to explain how it needs to change, but if they want people to care about pvp, they'll do something about it. RMP mirrors are so boring to watch. I actually really enjoy watching wow e-sports, and ladder play is so much more interesting than RMP RMP RMP RMP.

    Do better Blizz.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by deathshere View Post
    Nerf Destruction warlocks? Remove Demon Armor???? Are you serious? The set bonus was the only thing done right for destruction and now you remove the infernal stun in pvp?????
    Someone rerolled FOTM and is now butthurt that they can't simply stand there and hardcast 70K CB at melee in melee range.

  20. #20
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    Think MoP would be the best PvP expansion to repeat - it had very creative class talents, like i mentioned symbiosis was the best, warlock design was great as demology until they nerfed it. Chaos waves could kill multiple geared people i guess they had to tone it down. MoP had the best class design ever and it translated well into pvp.
    Problem with MoP was that every spec had 2-3 stuns/interrupts. It was a disaster outside of a 40man bg.
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