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  1. #581
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    ,Yeah... if Blizzard ackbowledged them as Hunters, they would make it much more obvious and less convoluted.
    Gotta ask, beyond putting them in the hunter class hall, giving there ability’s to hunters, giving there armour set to hunters, have hunters be trained by them, letting hunters have the same skin/eyes, and having there NPC’s act like hunters in multiple zones, whst more could they do to make it much more obvious?
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  2. #582
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    So, yeah... you pointed out to their Undead nature being the only difference, which can be applied to Death Knights if we bring them into the equation.
    No, you can't apply that, because Blizzard did not define Death Knights as merely being undead Knights. They defined them as Runeblade wielding former champions of the Scourge, and as the WC2 Orc Necrolytes which inhabit the bodies of undead Knights. That is how Blizzard defines the lore.

    For the Dark Ranger? Blizzard has applied this name to Undead Rangers, with Ranger being synonymous to Hunter. Are Dark Rangers defined by unique abilities that make them different from Hunters? Prior to 9.2.5, I would say that the definition would be ambiguous enough to consider. However after 9.2.5, it's definitive that Blizzard no longer leaves any ambiguity in play. They are literally a type of Hunter.

    Death Knights were never part of any other Order. Dark Rangers are part of the Unseen Path. By lore definition, Blizzard has made Dark Rangers into Hunters, in retrospect as far back as Cataclysm.

    I mean it's literally like you're arguing Tauren Paladins can't be Sunwalkers because they don't have any abilities that reflect the use of Sun magic. The lore clearly says otherwise.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-07-09 at 09:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  3. #583
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Fire and Arcane spells.



    Mages definitely cover that, as we see the Evoker casting Arcane, Time, Frost and Fire spells. The only thing not covered is Emerald.

    Are you seriously going to argue that there’s zero difference between Khadgar and Kalecgos to the point that they are the same type of character?

    Just FYI, this is how Kalecgos uses Arcane magic;



    Khadgar and my arcane mage can’t do that.

    My upcoming Dracthyr Evoker can.

    Moreover, who said you deserved all of the abilities? If Dark Rangers need to be satisfied with 1 ability, then so do you and the Evoker.
    Blizzard did.

    Sorry, not sorry.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2022-07-09 at 09:49 PM.

  4. #584
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Gotta ask, beyond putting them in the hunter class hall, giving there ability’s to hunters, giving there armour set to hunters, have hunters be trained by them, letting hunters have the same skin/eyes, and having there NPC’s act like hunters in multiple zones, whst more could they do to make it much more obvious?
    Dedicate an entire spec for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    No, you can't apply that, because Blizzard did not define Death Knights as merely being undead Knights. They defined them as Runeblade wielding former champions of the Scourge, and as the WC2 Orc Necrolytes which inhabit the bodies of undead Knights. That is how Blizzard defines the lore.

    For the Dark Ranger? Blizzard has applied this name to Undead Rangers, with Ranger being synonymous to Hunter. Are Dark Rangers defined by unique abilities that make them different from Hunters? Prior to 9.2.5, I would say that the definition would be ambiguous enough to consider. However after 9.2.5, it's definitive that Blizzard no longer leaves any ambiguity in play. They are literally a type of Hunter.

    Death Knights were never part of any other Order. Dark Rangers are part of the Unseen Path. By lore definition, Blizzard has made Dark Rangers into Hunters, in retrospect as far back as Cataclysm.
    If it was so obvious, they wouldn't have different categorizations by now:
    Could also be Hunter, Scout, Ranger
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_ranger

    It wouldn't be hard to delegate a spec for them either. Are they BM or MM? Wailing Arrow is found in both. Are they MM or Survival? One can wield a bow but the other is described as a Ranger.
    And it definitely wouldn't be entirely based on one ability only.

    I mean it's literally like you're arguing Tauren Paladins can't be Sunwalkers because they don't have any abilities that reflect the use of Sun magic. The lore clearly says otherwise.
    There aren't any sun abilities associated with them either. We're just told they draw their light from the sun.
    Unlike them, Dark Rangers have an assortment of established abilities that aren't, and won't, be found in the Hunter class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Are you seriously going to argue that there’s zero difference between Khadgar and Kalecgos to the point that they are the same type of character?

    Just FYI, this is how Kalecgos uses Arcane magic;



    Khadgar and my arcane mage can’t do that.

    My upcoming Dracthyr Evoker can.
    How they shoot it is just a cosmetic matter.
    They are Mages, period.

    Blizzard did.

    Sorry, not sorry.
    We're talking hypothetically. If Evoker was a Mage skin, and you would get 1 ability at best, with a cosmetic customization option, you wouldn't be so smug right now.

  5. #585
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Dedicate an entire spec for it.
    so if they left every thing lore and customization wise that we have right now the exact same but just added a 4th spec you'd think nothing else was needed?
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  6. #586
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    If it was so obvious, they wouldn't have different categorizations by now:
    Could also be Hunter, Scout, Ranger
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_ranger
    You're splitting hairs.

    Does this WoWpedia categorization help your case for a new Dark Ranger class at all?

    It wouldn't be hard to delegate a spec for them either. Are they BM or MM? Wailing Arrow is found in both. Are they MM or Survival? One can wield a bow but the other is described as a Ranger.
    Mountain King doesn't have its own spec, yet you attribute it to being a Fury Warrior despite Thunderclap and Avatar being Protection Talents. Stormbolt also appears in Fury, Arms and Protection, and you seem to have no problem continuing to identify it as Fury. Why the double standard here with Hunters having Wailing Arrow in multiple specs?

    I mean, I said before Marksmanship would be the best fit since even Blizzard had Dark Ranger Velonara be represented as a Marksmanship Hunter in Wod as a follower. If Wailing Arrow is a BM talent then that doesn't really change anything, since Dark Rangers are Hunters, and not tied to any particular spec. We're just talking about what represents em best, the same way you attribute Fury to Mountain Kings even though Storm Bolt appears in every spec while Thunderclap is missing from the spec.

    Dark Ranger is a type of Hunter. How you choose to represent that is purely through RP, same way you do if you want to play as a Mountain King. There is no single Warrior spec that perfectly represents the MK.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-07-10 at 06:15 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  7. #587
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    so if they left every thing lore and customization wise that we have right now the exact same but just added a 4th spec you'd think nothing else was needed?
    Like what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    You're splitting hairs.

    Does this WoWpedia categorization help your case for a new Dark Ranger class at all?
    We know it is undefined, as they used to refer to Mekattorque as a Warrior.

    Mountain King doesn't have its own spec, yet you attribute it to being a Fury Warrior despite Thunderclap and Avatar being Protection Talents. Stormbolt also appears in Fury, Arms and Protection, and you seem to have no problem continuing to identify it as Fury. Why the double standard here with Hunters having Wailing Arrow in multiple specs?

    I mean, I said before Marksmanship would be the best fit since even Blizzard had Dark Ranger Velonara be represented as a Marksmanship Hunter in Wod as a follower. If Wailing Arrow is a BM talent then that doesn't really change anything, since Dark Rangers are Hunters, and not tied to any particular spec. We're just talking about what represents em best, the same way you attribute Fury to Mountain Kings even though Storm Bolt appears in every spec while Thunderclap is missing from the spec.

    Dark Ranger is a type of Hunter. How you choose to represent that is purely through RP, same way you do if you want to play as a Mountain King. There is no single Warrior spec that perfectly represents the MK.
    Sure. Then why does the Ranger fantasy belongs to the Survival spec and why did they take the Archer out of the MM description?

  8. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    We know it is undefined, as they used to refer to Mekattorque as a Warrior.
    No, we know it is defined because Blizzard has literally linked Dark Rangers to Hunters through the Order Halls in Legion, the Followers in WoD and now the 9.2.5 storyline.

    Mekkatorque being referred to as a "Warrior" was literally from the TCG. This was a connection made entirely outside of WoW. We're not talking about the TCG or other non-canon sources of Warcraft lore. If we were going that route, I'd make a point that Sylvanas is a Hunter Hero in Hearthstone, but clearly that isn't canonical to WoW.



    Sure. Then why does the Ranger fantasy belongs to the Survival spec and why did they take the Archer out of the MM description?
    "Ranger" in WoW has been used as a synonym for (Blood or High) Elven Hunter. Just like Vindicator or Blood Knight isn't any particular spec of Paladin, it's a racially specific type of Paladin.

    I'm not sure why you're even attributing these titles to any one spec. You're literally asking for an explanation as to why Blizzard's talent changes fucked up your personal headcanon.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-07-10 at 08:48 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  9. #589
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    How they shoot it is just a cosmetic matter.
    They are Mages, period.
    Well no. Does firing a stream of Arcane magic from your hands make you feel like a dragon? No, it makes you feel like a wizard shooting a stream of Arcane magic from their hands. I mean, playing as a fire mage doesn't make me feel like Alexstraza or Wrathion.

    Meanwhile, shooting Wailing Arrow while having the appearance of an undead elf makes you feel like a Dark Ranger shooting Wailing Arrow. You have the look, and you have the ability. Unlike a dragon, there's nothing different about being an undead elf versus being a non-undead elf. There is a clear difference between a Mage and a Dragon in WoW. The difference between a Hunter and a Dark Ranger has always been minor to non-existent.


    We're talking hypothetically. If Evoker was a Mage skin, and you would get 1 ability at best, with a cosmetic customization option, you wouldn't be so smug right now.
    No, you asked who said that the Evoker deserved all of those abilities and their own class, and I told you who made that decision. It's simple, Blizzard decided that we needed a dragon class, and also decided that we didn't need a Dark Ranger class.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2022-07-10 at 10:04 AM.

  10. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    No, we know it is defined because Blizzard has literally linked Dark Rangers to Hunters through the Order Halls in Legion, the Followers in WoD and now the 9.2.5 storyline.

    Mekkatorque being referred to as a "Warrior" was literally from the TCG. This was a connection made entirely outside of WoW. We're not talking about the TCG or other non-canon sources of Warcraft lore. If we were going that route, I'd make a point that Sylvanas is a Hunter Hero in Hearthstone, but clearly that isn't canonical to WoW.
    Or that Cairne is a Hunter.
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tauren_chieftain

    "Ranger" in WoW has been used as a synonym for (Blood or High) Elven Hunter. Just like Vindicator or Blood Knight isn't any particular spec of Paladin, it's a racially specific type of Paladin.

    I'm not sure why you're even attributing these titles to any one spec. You're literally asking for an explanation as to why Blizzard's talent changes fucked up your personal headcanon.
    Vindicators are Protection Paladins, as strange as it would seem, while Blood Knights are likely Retribution. I've made threads delving into these kinds of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well no. Does firing a stream of Arcane magic from your hands make you feel like a dragon? No, it makes you feel like a wizard shooting a stream of Arcane magic from their hands. I mean, playing as a fire mage doesn't make me feel like Alexstraza or Wrathion.
    A cosmetic matter. Could be fixed with the Dracthyr race. One of the Evoker's abilities even looks like an Arcane Blast combined with Arcane Missiles.

    Fire Mage literally has a Dragon's Breath ability and an Alextrasza's Fury talent.

    Meanwhile, shooting Wailing Arrow while having the appearance of an undead elf makes you feel like a Dark Ranger shooting Wailing Arrow. You have the look, and you have the ability. Unlike a dragon, there's nothing different about being an undead elf versus being a non-undead elf. There is a clear difference between a Mage and a Dragon in WoW. The difference between a Hunter and a Dark Ranger has always been minor to non-existent.
    You're talking one ability here. Where are all the shadowy, Rogue-like, abilities?
    Is the Evoker defined by 1 spell only?

    No, you asked who said that the Evoker deserved all of those abilities and their own class, and I told you who made that decision. It's simple, Blizzard decided that we needed a dragon class, and also decided that we didn't need a Dark Ranger class.
    No, i said that if the Evoker was a class skin, what makes you think you'd get all of the abilities you are going to get?
    If Dark Rangers got 1, you'd be facing the same situation with an Evoker customization option.

  11. #591
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    A cosmetic matter. Could be fixed with the Dracthyr race. One of the Evoker's abilities even looks like an Arcane Blast combined with Arcane Missiles.
    Well no, there's a mechanical aspect to it as well that Mage's can't replicate.

    Fire Mage literally has a Dragon's Breath ability and an Alextrasza's Fury talent.
    And neither gives you the feeling of being a dragon.

    You're talking one ability here. Where are all the shadowy, Rogue-like, abilities?
    Is the Evoker defined by 1 spell only?
    As a Dark Ranger you don't need them. At their core, they're just archers, and the Hunter class provides that archery base. Blizzard isn't going to create an entirely new class that does exactly the same thing as the Hunter class, just with shadow damage instead of physical or nature damage.

    No, i said that if the Evoker was a class skin, what makes you think you'd get all of the abilities you are going to get?
    If Dark Rangers got 1, you'd be facing the same situation with an Evoker customization option.
    That's the issue that you keep missing; The Evoker class also incorporates draconic abilities that require the actual body of a dragon, like Soar or Deep Breath that utilize the Dracthyr's wings and allow it to fly. It goes beyond simply cosmetics.

  12. #592
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    This thread isn't about Dracthyr, specific characters, or what is or isn't X class - it's about Dark Ranger customization options. Let's return to the topic at hand and drop these derailing, tangent arguments.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  13. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Vindicators are Protection Paladins, as strange as it would seem, while Blood Knights are likely Retribution. I've made threads delving into these kinds of things.
    Sure. And these things are headcanon. You've made threads about headcanon.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-07-10 at 04:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  14. #594
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    This thread isn't about Dracthyr, specific characters, or what is or isn't X class - it's about Dark Ranger customization options. Let's return to the topic at hand and drop these derailing, tangent arguments.
    Was kinda wondering when someone would pop in. Also, thanks to whomever changed the clickbait title which was inaccurate.

    Staying SOLELY on topic about the customization itself, I wish there had been 2 versions of the chest, one with a hood down (so you could hide hood and then one with no hood so you could unhide hood. After all, it is a Hunter, so it kinda makes sense. Since you have to complete the quest chain specifically on a hunter just to unlock/purchase the set. The other thing I would have loved to see come with it was a (Cosmetic Only like the treasures in Zereth Mortis) Dark Ranger Bow/Quiver set much like the Windrunner Legion Artifact, except the bow, and the quiver n arrows would be black with grey trim.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  15. #595
    Mechagnome Hawkknight97's Avatar
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    I'm disappointed by the lack of Dark Ranger Customization Options. I mean it's just red eyes and one gray skin tune. I would love it if they add in more shades of skin tunes and even eye colors to add in the variety of the Dark Rangers heck make them rotten as well.

    How do you guys feel about this. Don't get me wrong I'm happy We got Dark Ranger Options for so long it's just I wish it had more Variety.
    High Elves and Wildhammer Dwarves are finally playable in the Alliance. XD

  16. #596
    Herald of the Titans Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Grom isn't even a Blademaster, he's more of a brutish warrior and the only thing he has in common with the weeaboo orcs is the Bladestorm and perhaps Critical Strike if he hits too hard
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged custom models that intends to fill the gaps in the Reforged campaign

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