Should Lordaeron City become neutral? [9.2.5 spoilers]

[Alanar]

It is not fair to say that all of Lordaeron's citizens died defending the capital; many of the surrounding cities and villages couldn't deploy troops due to the plague/scourge literally ravaging their immediate borders. There are/were Lordaeron natives in Light' Hope Chapel, the rebuilt Hearthglen, Gilneas, and the various Scarlet Crusade encampments that dot the landscape. Not to mention, this isn't even taking into account the villages were former natives used to live until The Forsaken literally fucking murdered them (i.e the old Hillsbrad Foothills questline). The reality is that Blizzard can't create an entire region with an accurate population count, so if one random Hillsbrad village survived the Scourge, logic would dictate the others survived as well.

So yes, it's foolish to claim that only The Forsaken have a right to call Lordaeron home. It'll piss Horde fans off for sure, but if Blizzard is dead-set on ending the faction war, allowing both The Horde and The Alliance access to Lordaeron's capital would be a sign that each faction is serious about the peace agreements, as all natives of Lordaeron could return home again. This would obviously mean an Alliance capital would be open to The Horde for equality reasons, but that isn't the point of the topic atm.

This to me just looks like you are just looking to much into it. Undercity has always been horde and should stay that way. 9.2.5 makes that clear, whats the point in discussing this really?

[Tanaria]

This to me just looks like you are just looking to much into it. Undercity has always been horde and should stay that way. 9.2.5 makes that clear, whats the point in discussing this really?

I've got an idea.

New Night Elf City is shared with the Horde.

Sure it would piss off the Alliance / Night Elf fanbase but tough crap

[Alanar]

When?

The city was destroyed by Arthas at the start of the Third War and only briefly retaken by Alliance forces led by Garithos, until they were wiped out by Sylvanas.

Then the Alliance tried twice to reclaim Lordaeron, first under Varian, then under Anduin (and they were actually successful, until Sylvanas did the only thing she can do and started blighting everything).

You know what they say about the third time, but now the Alliance doesn't need to be hostile to reclaim their rightful place in Lordaeron. They can reach an agreement with Calia.

Why are u always so salty over her? Did she hurt you?

[Varodoc]

Tyrande has never shown any interest in sharing things with the Horde. She is not Calia and if she acted like Calia, it would be out of character. She is not the "sharing" type, as WC3 made clear.

Meanwhile, Calia literally got herself killed for promoting unity between the Alliance and Horde.

[Myradin]

I don't understand how people think a floating necropolis and the forsaken are linked.

Those places are Scourge buildings and the Forsaken have never used those sorts of buildings before.
Lordaeron was their home in life and in undeath.

The Forsaken have been warped from "victims of the scourge" to "playable scourge".

[Alanar]

I've got an idea.

New Night Elf City is shared with the Horde.

Sure it would piss off the Alliance / Night Elf fanbase but tough crap

Its funny, because you never hear horde players ask for this. Horde rather have a new place then take an alliance capitol.

Meanwhile on the allaince side.. we want silvermoon, we want suramar and now back again we want undercity. I mean.. >.>

[Tanaria]

Tyrande has never shown any interest in sharing things with the Horde. She is not Calia and if she acted like Calia, it would be out of character. She is not the "sharing" type, as WC3 made clear.

Meanwhile, Calia literally got herself killed for promoting unity between the Alliance and Horde.

Doesn't matter what Tyrande is like - she just has to share with the Horde.
If Alliance fans don't like it - well, Blizzard shouldn't care. You just have to accept it.

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Its funny, because you never hear horde players ask for this. Horde rather have a new place then take an alliance capitol is what I see most of the time.

Meanwhile on the allaince side.. we want silvermoon, we want suramar and now back again we want undercity. I mean.. >.>

It's always - "we want this and you Horde have to accept it!"
I've noticed that nobody can actually give the alternate story as to what happens to the Blood Elves, Nightborne and Forsaken in their stories. Now, why is that...? Probably because they are pretty bad at telling stories themselves..

[Alanar]

Tyrande has never shown any interest in sharing things with the Horde. She is not Calia and if she acted like Calia, it would be out of character. She is not the "sharing" type, as WC3 made clear.

Meanwhile, Calia literally got herself killed for promoting unity between the Alliance and Horde.

Or you get this @Tanaria

[Tanaria]

The Forsaken have been warped from "victims of the scourge" to "playable scourge".

But again - what does that have to do with the Forsaken's architecture? Lordaeron is their architecture.

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Or you get this @Tanaria

Basically "Alliance shouldn't need to share, but Horde must share." That's all Varodoc is saying.

[RobertMugabe]

So as we know, the Void elves will receive Dark Ranger customization options in 9.2.5 This means that, storywise, a portion of Dark Rangers that once served Sylvanas and the Forsaken, have defected to the Alliance. For many years, Horde players denied the Alliance any right to Lordaeron on the basis that all those who stayed to defend Lordaeron were now in the Horde (Forsaken).

However, now the Alliance has a new claim to Lordaeron, thanks to the aforementioned Dark Rangers who have joined the ranks of the Ren'dorei, and will be playable in 9.2.5.

We also know that High King Turalyon seeks to reclaim former holdings of the Alliance, after the success at Stromgarde, and Lordaeron City would count as a former holding (and former capital) of the Alliance.

Is it fair that Lordaeron remains in the hands of the Horde, when a portion of those who died defending it are now in the Alliance? I believe that Calia should simply share Lordaeron with the Alliance, after all it is only fair that those Dark Rangers would have the option to visit Lordaeron, even though they personally aligned more with the Alliance's ideals than the Horde's.

Will Turalyon even remain the de-facto leader of the Alliance? The latest cinematic indicates that Anduin will just return or that he won't play a major role in Dragonflight, but then return so sure.

That being said, no, the Alliance doesn't need Lordaeron. It seems like a new world tree is about to be planted and we might see a new night-elf capital city as a result of that. Furthermore, as it looks like, the Alliance will get Gilneas back. And then there are potential future city candidates like Gnomeregan, a new and rebuilt South Shore etc. All in all, the Alliance just has enough potential cities to be had in the future and thus at the very least due to gameplay and balancing reasons it makes no sense.

[Alanar]

But again - what does that have to do with the Forsaken's architecture? Lordaeron is their architecture.

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Basically "Alliance shouldn't need to share, but Horde must share." That's all Varodoc is saying.

I have a bitter taste about the whole We will share silvermoon and mace with hes suramar for night elves.

Its always very one sided.. and to be fair this whole sharing thing is just bull imo.

[Celvira]

This to me just looks like you are just looking to much into it. Undercity has always been horde and should stay that way. 9.2.5 makes that clear, whats the point in discussing this really?

Personally, I loathe the faction neutrality aspect Blizzard is pushing, so that would more or less mean I support keeping Undercity in The Forsaken's control. My argument was more to convey that Lordaeron as a whole absolutely does not belong solely to The Forsaken, as others have claimed. Lordaeron as an alliance may have been shattered, but those who have been untouched by death and still live within its borders have every right to call it home as much as The Forsaken does.

Regardless, I'm not 100% sold on demanding the capital be redistributed, returning Gilneas would be an alternative to selling the peace aspect Blizzard wants without shaking up things too much.

[Tanaria]

I have a bitter taste about the whole We will share silvermoon and mace with hes suramar for night elves.

Its always very one sided.. and to be fair this whole sharing thing is just bull imo.

It usually is with Alliance demands these days.

I hardly sided with Sylvanas during BFA, but I'm starting to think that both her and Garrosh had the right idea...especially the latter.

[Alanar]

Personally, I loathe the faction neutrality aspect Blizzard is pushing, so that would more or less mean I support keeping Undercity in The Forsaken's control. My argument was more to convey that Lordaeron as a whole absolutely does not belong solely to The Forsaken, as others have claimed. Lordaeron as an alliance may have been shattered, but those who have been untouched by death and still live within its borders have every right to call it home as much as The Forsaken does.

Regardless, I'm not 100% demanding the capital be redistributed, returning Gilneas would be an alternative to the selling the peace aspect Blizzard wants.

Who exactly out there do you mean? Forces who are scattered sound like headcanon to me and very few in number. Why would they even want to go to a very gloomy place with lots of undead and just not very clean or same standards and living humans have. The undead dont even sleep or care for a shower for example. The undercity does nothing for living humans.

They are much better off in either Gilneas(soon tm), stormwind.. you know the places who are thriving with living humans.. their people. That being said, I do think they could still have relatives maybe in the forsaken that they would like to visit or what ever, but that could be done with calia and derek having a much more peacefull way of interacting. But its just not enough and to soon to share it at this point.

Getting Gilneas, which is an awesome city sounds really good to have, cool style etc. I think the alliance should focus on gilneas and new seed for the night elves. You know actual things we know will happen. Undercity will very likely just stay horde, so feels like wasted energy to spend time discussing otherwise imo.

[Trumpcat]

No, it's the founding capital of the Alliance and should return where it belongs.

[Woggmer]

Honestly, not like there's much choice and it seems Blizz is probably fervent to stay on this "Avoid Faction Conflict" course (not because they want to but because they can't do faction conflict actual justice)

Lordaeron I can see being neutral territory, but NOT ALLIANCE TERRITORY... I'm gonna repeat that because people tend to misunderstand, NOT ALLIANCE TERRITORY, ONLY NEUTRAL!

Without Sylvanas around (or any form of domination magic) new Forsaken can actually have a bit more freedom and some undead elves can return home if they choose to. If they wanna pledge themselves to the Forsaken, that's their choice. So it's more neutral yet leans to the Horde. (Unless Turalyon or Greymane decide to invade and turn it into a 4th Crusade and accidentally sack Lordaeron.)

Silvermoon, on the other hand, should remain purely Horde territory. Lor'themar hasn't exactly forgiven Jaina for what she did to his people in Dalaran, and now he doesn't trust the Void Elves or Alleria after her little accident in the Sunwell. Anytime it feels like the Blood Elves are ready to consider to put the Alliance on good terms, something goes horribly wrong that makes them want to stay with the Horde.

[Celvira]

Who exactly out there do you mean? Forces who are scattered sound like headcanon to me and very few in number. Why would they even want to go to a very gloomy place with lots of undead and just not very clean or same standards and living humans have. The undead dont even sleep or care for a shower for example. The undercity does nothing for living humans.

They are much better off in either Gilneas(soon tm), stormwind.. you know the places who are thriving with living humans.. their people. That being said, I do think they could still have relatives maybe in the forsaken that they would like to visit or what ever, but that could be done with calia and derek having a much more peacefull way of interacting. But its just not enough and to soon to share it at this point.

Getting Gilneas, which is an awesome city sounds really good to have, cool style etc.

I'd be happy with Gilneas, yeah. I just wanted to stress that Lordaeron natives still care about their homeland and are actively working to cleanse the land and restore it to a healthy state. If the living have to coexist with the dead, fair enough, but the vigilance and dedication of the Silver Hand, Light's Hope Chapel, and Druids have made tangible progress upon the map itself - those actions alone earned them the right to call Lordaeron (the region, not the capital) home just as much as The Forsaken.

[Woggmer]

Who exactly out there do you mean? Forces who are scattered sound like headcanon to me and very few in number. Why would they even want to go to a very gloomy place with lots of undead and just not very clean or same standards and living humans have. The undead dont even sleep or care for a shower for example. The undercity does nothing for living humans.

They are much better off in either Gilneas(soon tm), stormwind.. you know the places who are thriving with living humans.. their people. That being said, I do think they could still have relatives maybe in the forsaken that they would like to visit or what ever, but that could be done with calia and derek having a much more peacefull way of interacting. But its just not enough and to soon to share it at this point.

Getting Gilneas, which is an awesome city sounds really good to have, cool style etc. I think the alliance should focus on gilneas and new seed for the night elves. You know actual things we know will happen. Undercity will very likely just stay horde, so feels like wasted energy to spend time discussing otherwise imo.

This, but a few things... Gilneas is probably in disrepair but the Worgen in BfA can find new base of operations like Fenris Isle (which I could honestly see as a new starter area for Worgen) and the points you mentioned about Undercity staying with Horde rings true, but I think they'll also just make the Undercity "back to normal" not because of Story or Lore reasons but on a technical aspect where it'd be easier to do than just "remake" the whole city from the ground up.

[Rend Blackhand]

If Egypt fell to a zombie apocalypse, Brazil can't just go there and 'reclaim' it. It's not theirs.

That's how I see Lordaeron. It belongs to Lordaeron citizens even though they are undead

[Alanar]

This, but a few things... Gilneas is probably in disrepair but the Worgen in BfA can find new base of operations like Fenris Isle (which I could honestly see as a new starter area for Worgen) and the points you mentioned about Undercity staying with Horde rings true, but I think they'll also just make the Undercity "back to normal" not because of Story or Lore reasons but on a technical aspect where it'd be easier to do than just "remake" the whole city from the ground up.

Yea true, but dont you think that Gilneas would also just go back to what it was at the end of worgen starting area when we get back? Maybe a few new outposts and new npcs out there.
I really do love the style and small streets and dark alleys. It would be a huge shame if it ends up being some small isle with a couple of tents and buildings and thats it, while in the backround you would still see the big city with clocktower etc. Damn that would be such a cockblock.