Necromancy is Not Necessarily Death Magic.

[username993720]

I find it unlikely that the Zandalari didn't at least dabble with that shit. Zul'Gurub, Zul'Farak, Zul'Aman and Naz'mir are steeped in necromancy (which apparently counts as Necromancy™ now) and all of that preceded the Great Sundering.

Again, the Dreadlords have existed for millenia before life on Azeroth even sprang. They've infiltrated the other cosmic forces when the universe was still young.

Were they?

At least the first recounted one.
If you're thinking of Galakrond, we still don't know what magic he was associated with.

That's weird. Could have sworn Galakrond made undead proto-dragons. Which by definition given to us is the animation of dead bodies. Also weird because Valkyr existed before the war of the ancients and Helya had her undead vrykul. Perhaps you should consider a novel from almost two decades ago didn't plan for the expansion of lore and new stuff has been added.

We don't know what kind of magic Galakrond was "using".
Kvaldir are spirits and Valkyr are ascended Vrykul.

Oh really now?

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Helya

And done by Agent of Order no less, by the way.

Did what?

[DatToffer]

Because that's like saying "sword" and "swordplay" are the same thing. Magic types (such as Death magic) are tools, and the spell schools (such as necromancy) are what you can do with said tools.

But one word can have several meanings. You can even have Necromancy with capital N be about Death magic and necromancy be about the practice if that's too confusing.

[cparle87]

But the engineer's pocket knife can 'reanimate' a player that's been dead for months. Where is the line drawn?

That's what's known as gameplay and story segregation. We can come back from the dead simply by walking to our bodies or clicking release. It's not nearly as easy in the game, with only a handful of resurrections not involving beings with that kind of power. Same with hearthstones. Every player begins with one in their bags. Varian saw the one Jaina gave Anduin and said he'd never seen one before, thinking they were just myths from stories about mages and elves.

[Gaidax]

Did what?

Odyn killed and then raised Helya as first Val'kyr before Dreadlords on Azeroth were even a thing. She in turn created Vrykul.

Dreadlords were most definitely not the first to employ Necromancy in Azeroth.

[Iain]

Same with hearthstones. Every player begins with one in their bags. Varian saw the one Jaina gave Anduin and said he'd never seen one before, thinking they were just myths from stories about mages and elves.

That could have been an epic prank run on Varian though.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, i think they do that because this expansion is over, they don't really care about it anymore so everything can be necromancy a lazy solution, they don't need to create an order for it. If one of the future expansion concept draw around death again and necromancy, they just pick up a holy retcon pencil and do it.

Indeed. What also bothers me is that we just had an entire realm of the Shadowlands devoted to necromancy. Maldraxxus is specifically about reviving corpses and flesh, Maldraxxus is necromancy. So what is it that's Maldraxxus is based on? They're clearly not devoted to exploring all the various ways you can revive a corpse through magic. They're not using frost, fire, nature or light magic to revive corpses.

"Maldraxxus is the birthplace of necromantic magic."
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/shadowlands#world


What magic is that?

And before the discussion starts from scratch, I totally accept you can use any magic to revive a corpse. But why can't there be a necromantic magic in and of itself if Blizzard themselves are so insistent on calling it that?

- - - Updated - - -

The above excerpt is basically saying that Nature magic is Life magic, and that Necromantic magic (Necromancy) is Death magic; Nature magic pulls from the Life domain as a source, Necromancy pulls from the Death domain as a source. This is reinforced by the cosmological chart:

Yes. So that makes this Zin'Dane's bit of exposition more of a retcon than Blizzard intended it to be.

[shade3891]

Necromancy is the act of returning something back to life. It doesnt matter if the source of power is light, fire, void, shadow, fel, death, etc..

By the way, Players resurect all the time, by multiple means... Yes I mean you when you died again by standing in fire.

[username993720]

Odyn killed and then raised Helya as first Val'kyr before Dreadlords on Azeroth were even a thing. She in turn created Vrykul.

Dreadlords were most definitely not the first to employ Necromancy in Azeroth.

"When she spoke out against Odyn, he forcefully transformed her into the first of the spectral Val'kyr, tasked with bringing the souls of fallen vrykul to the keeper's Halls of Valor to become his Valarjar champions"

Doesn't sound like she was raised from the dead.
Again, Odyn was trying to mimic what he saw of the Shadowlands, specifically the Kyrian, where the Dreadlords hail from.
So, Dreadlords definitely precede him in Necromancy.

[Gaidax]

"When she spoke out against Odyn, he forcefully transformed her into the first of the spectral Val'kyr, tasked with bringing the souls of fallen vrykul to the keeper's Halls of Valor to become his Valarjar champions"

Doesn't sound like she was raised from the dead.
Again, Odyn was trying to mimic what he saw of the Shadowlands, specifically the Kyrian, where the Dreadlords hail from.
So, Dreadlords definitely precede him in Necromancy.

Believe what you will, expert on Necromancy.

Here is another example for you, as others mentioned: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Galakrond



Also WAY long before any Dreadlords in Azeroth.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Not-living

[Progenitor Aquarius]

You can see the suffering of the forsaken that have been raised by necromancy and those who have been just brought to life. There is a difference, and I wouldn’t dwell on it too much. It might be the effect of bad writing or just a point of view from a Maldraxian guy. Even from a cosmic chart perspective, it looks clearly illogical to have other forces involved. There are plenty of sources on the internet that indicate what necromancy really is, and I'd rather stick to the old definition, because it’s safe.

[Morgomir]

I distinctly remember Krasus reanimating a dead goblin with Life magic to have it lead Krasus to Neltharion's lair. War of the Ancients trilogy, so if this is a "retcon" its a VERY old retcon

[Shadowferal]

The TL;DR would be that one of two things must be true about Chronicle, given the new lore we have:

I'd say "Whichever agrees with the narrative being pushed at any given time" is always accurate.

Imo that chart was a big mistake.

[Iain]

Necromancy is the act of returning something back to life. It doesnt matter if the source of power is light, fire, void, shadow, fel, death,

And also 'necromantic magic', the magic that is borne out of Maldraxxus.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd say "Whichever agrees with the narrative being pushed at any given time" is always accurate.

Danuser is probably chuckling over a cappuccino while browsing this thread.

But one word can have several meanings. You can even have Necromancy with capital N be about Death magic and necromancy be about the practice if that's too confusing.

I would very much prefer that, but Blizzard isn't bothering with such a distinction themselves.

[Loreth88]

Indeed. What also bothers me is that we just had an entire realm of the Shadowlands devoted to necromancy. Maldraxxus is specifically about reviving corpses and flesh, Maldraxxus is necromancy. So what is it that's Maldraxxus is based on? They're clearly not devoted to exploring all the various ways you can revive a corpse through magic. They're not using frost, fire, nature or light magic to revive corpses.

"Maldraxxus is the birthplace of necromantic magic."
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/shadowlands#world


What magic is that?

And before the discussion starts from scratch, I totally accept you can use any magic to revive a corpse. But why can't there be a necromantic magic in and of itself if Blizzard themselves are so insistent on calling it that?.

Sad thing about that, they will not explain anything now, they just let it go, forget. They not build this whole world just open and open new chapters with a little connections between them.

[loras]

What's up with so much discussion about this topic anyway?
Back in classic it was known Kel'thuzad initially used arcane magic, and the trolls in Stranglethorn used some alchemic / nature / shadow stuff, whereas the trolls in Tanaris were happy using some unholy stuff.
Then in TBC we see fel doing it, literally just a dead pit lord's blood resurrects a dragon. Oh and the void naaru? Countless dead souls flock to it, and plenty of things are reanimated with its power. Hell even Murmur may have resurrected some of the spirits, and he's the one true god an elemental!
Then in WotLK we see death and void openlu struggling (black dragons vs. scourge, saronite in frostmourne's chamber, Ulduar's deathless armies ready to strike Ice rown, Shadowmourne's creation), but as we've later seen they have no issue resurrecting or necromantising the dead (N'zoth with Aszhara, AU Ner'zhul). Of course we see Bolvar's partial resurrection through life-dragonfire as well. And then at some point during BfA the light shows it can do necromancy as well.

Soooo... how is this a retcon again? At worst people can complain that the alternative media are shown to play second fiddle to the game yet again. As it should; they're crap enough writers with just one medium, adding more only makes it worse (Hello Med'an, hello raptor army).

[username993720]

Believe what you will, expert on Necromancy.

Here is another example for you, as others mentioned: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Galakrond



Also WAY long before any Dreadlords in Azeroth.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Not-living

I told you we don't know what Galakrond's corruption was from. It is hinted that he was experimented upon by titanic watchers, like the creatures in Uldir.

It would have been the first case of necromancy on Azeroth if the Dreadlors haven't delved in it within the Shadowlands for billions of years prior.

[Aydinx2]

I don't get why anyone would think otherwise.
Necromancy = raising the dead. How you do it is not relevant.

[Magical Mudcrab]

And before the discussion starts from scratch, I totally accept you can use any magic to revive a corpse. But why can't there be a necromantic magic in and of itself if Blizzard themselves are so insistent on calling it that?

"Necromantic" is the adjective form of the noun "Necromancy", with "necromantic magic" just meaning "magic that is Necromancy".

- - - Updated - - -

I'd say "Whichever agrees with the narrative being pushed at any given time" is always accurate.

Imo that chart was a big mistake.

At the time it made sense as Chronicle was supposed to be the primary source of truth for WoW (at least, that is what is was marketed as). It doesn't help that Grimoire of the Shadowlands provides us a significantly more basic cosmological chart with emphasizes Life and Death over every other force and removes the association between the various forces (i.e.: Disorder, Order, Life, Death, etc.) and the magics associated with them (i.e.: Fel, Arcane, Nature, Necromancy, etc.). We've been put in a situation in which a random Broker knows more about the cosmos than the Pantheon of Order, and possibly the Pantheon of Death. It could be argued that the respective Pantheons might just not care too much about the other forces, which may be why the Titans were largely ignorant of many facets of Death, but it just seems weird for them to have less insight.

[Zoibert the Bear]

It's literally in the name, Nekros is dead body. Nek is the root word for death.

It's what it means.

[Unholyground]

I also considered technology because there are ways to use technology to bring back the dead as well (in fiction) so what would that even be considered? It's still technically Necromancy but it uses all kinds of all kinds of different methods and technologiea.

[Firann]

Necromancy is a school of magic. The same way evocation, alteration, divinition etc. etc. are. Even in Dalaran we have the books of school of magic and one of them is necromancy.

Arcane, Light, Fel, Death are all fuel sources that an individual can you use to power theri spells.
Human, Draenei, Dwarf, Blood Elve paladins for example use Light to fuel their spells, while Trolls pretty much use death (spirits/loa).
A human mage uses arcane to power his evocation spells (fireball, frostbolt etc.), where as a human warlock or a demon use fell magic.
Similarly a human mage that deals with necromancy (forbiden) is basicly using his arcane knowledge to manipulate the dead. Demon necromances (we have seen them in war of the ancients) used fel magic.

In conclusion Necromancy is a school of magic like evocation, where as death, light, arcane, fel are power sources.