Necromancy is Not Necessarily Death Magic.

[Ielenia]

Dreadlords infiltrated the other cosmic forces.

We have zero evidence that the dreadlords infiltrated the Titans.

[SovietBabeyyy]

We all know necromancy can be used by many different Forces and is not connected to Death but in the Cosmic chart we have something called „necromantic“ that is tied to Death is this the same as necromancy?

[Kathranis]

I'm more and more convinced that whoever wrote these quests utterly confused the words reanimation and necromancy, perhaps because there was some sort of mandate to use the word "necromancer" a lot in Maldraxxus or something.

[username993720]

(4) Tyr's knowledge indirectly came from the Dreadlords.

I never said Tyr practiced necromancy.
He was experimenting. That experimentation went wrong.
Just like G'huun and the other experimentations at Uldir, necromancy seems to be the result:

"G'huun (pronounced GU-hoon) was an Old God inadvertently created by the Pantheon during their experiments on the other imprisoned Old Gods, as the titans tried to find a solution to the problem that they posed.

G'huun's corruption was called "underrot". It sought to spread its rot, pestilence and decay across the world and beyond, and to consume Azeroth in the process."

What they used in their experimentations, we don't know.
Is it alchemy? Is it magic?

We have zero evidence that the dreadlords infiltrated the Titans.

"In many ways, the titans will be the easiest to manipulate. Their singular goal is to impose structure upon everything they see.

Show them a force that opposes their drive for Order, and they will be consumed by their urge to eradicate it.

Their pantheon, so seemingly united in purpose, is vulnerable to fracturing."

[Iain]

Maldraxus and necromancy is the real issue due to the way the shadowlands are said to work.

Yes.

Everyone losing their minds over different types of magic having necromancy (...)

In the entirety of this thread so far there has yet to be someone who takes issue at this. It's fine. Always has been.

[Nitedrifter]

It is interesting that there is so much discussion on this when players have been resurrecting each other in raids for the longest time. Basically we are all walking undead, unless you have yet to die in the game and be resurrected. Basically we the player base have proven that this definition is correct, we just never had it actually defined like this.
Druids use the power of the earth
Shaman use elemental power
Priests and Pallies use the light
Warlocks use soulstone which I assume is shadow or void
DK raise an ally with whatever death magic they use
Heck even Engineers can "shock" someone alive

Did I miss something?

[Magical Mudcrab]

We all know necromancy can be used by many different Forces and is not connected to Death but in the Cosmic chart we have something called „necromantic“ that is tied to Death is this the same as necromancy?

This has already been discussed in the thread ad nauseum. The Titan cosmological chart is not entirely accurate.

[Iain]

Basically we the player base have proven that this definition is correct, we just never had it actually defined like this.

That's exactly right. Zin'Dane's comment doesn't really open the field to new forms of necromancy, it just recategorizes what already existed.

The problem starts when you observe that Blizzard has been calling things 'necromantic' that don't directly involve the 'reanimation of unliving flesh'. It means 'necromantic' isn't just an action, it's also a property that deserves a better definition. And it feels as though Blizzard has thrown that concept under the bus, or just sort of forgotten about it through this declaration.

This has already been discussed in the thread ad nauseum. The Titan cosmological chart is not entirely accurate.

It's not just the chart it's also on Blizzard's Shadowlands page. Not to mention we don't have anything supplanting it, just a NPC somewhat contradicting it with a bit of flavour text.

[Ielenia]

"In many ways, the titans will be the easiest to manipulate. Their singular goal is to impose structure upon everything they see.

Show them a force that opposes their drive for Order, and they will be consumed by their urge to eradicate it.

Their pantheon, so seemingly united in purpose, is vulnerable to fracturing."

You said that dreadlords infiltrated the Titans.

There's a huge difference between mislead/manipulate and infiltrate.

- - - Updated - - -

We all know necromancy can be used by many different Forces and is not connected to Death but in the Cosmic chart we have something called „necromantic“ that is tied to Death is this the same as necromancy?

Old lore being replaced by new lore is not a new concept, and has happened many times in the history of WoW.

[Magical Mudcrab]

It's not just the chart it's also on Blizzard's Shadowlands page. Not to mention we don't have anything supplanting it, just a NPC somewhat contradicting it with a bit of flavour text.

It doesn't necessarily contradict the Shadowlands description of Maldraxxus.

Within war-torn Maldraxxus, might—of all kinds—makes right. Here, in the birthplace of necromantic magic, those who master the powers of death turn legions of ambitious souls into relentless undead armies.

The "birthplace of necromantic magic" speaks to its origin (where it is from), but not a persistent source (what it is powered by/used by). Imagine this in the context of some creative activity, like painting. If you asked an art connoisseur "what was the cradle of renaissance art?", you would probably get the response "Florence, Italy"; however, if you asked that same person "does all renaissance art come from Italy?", they would say something along the lines of "no, but it did serve as an inspiration".

Think of magic in a similar vein, a creative work that can inspire others. In the case of necromancy, this would be like renaissance art, except it would find its place of origin - its birthplace - in Maldraxxus. While this would imply that Maldraxxus was, wittingly or unwittingly, the inspiration for all subsequent necromancers, all this means is that the necromancy used by the other forces is derivative of (or inspired by) their work.

[username993720]

You said that dreadlords infiltrated the Titans.

There's a huge difference between mislead/manipulate and infiltrate.

We don't yet. We haven't been to their realm.
You didn't know Light had a Dreadlord named Lothraxion until Legion, did you?

[Iain]

Think of magic in a similar vein, a creative work that can inspire others. In the case of necromancy, this would be like renaissance art, except it would find its place of origin - its birthplace - in Maldraxxus. While this would imply that Maldraxxus was, wittingly or unwittingly, the inspiration for all subsequent necromancers, all this means is that the necromancy used by the other forces is derivative of (or inspired by) their work.

Okay but would that then mean Druids, Paladins and Shamans have been inspired by Maldraxxus style magic in the same way artists would be inspired by a particular style?

[Magical Mudcrab]

Okay but would that then mean Druids, Paladins and Shamans have been inspired by Maldraxxus style magic in the same way artists would be inspired by a particular style?

Imagine Maldraxxus is like Florence (and the Shadowlands is like Italy) during the renaissance. Their "art" (magic) would inspire like-minded thinkers in other "countries" (cosmic forces). The works of these people would then go on to inspire others, and this would carry on and evolve alongside whatever moral systems or beliefs each group upheld. Further down the line, ordinary people (i.e.: non-outsiders; regular mortals) may derive their own inspiration through the works of those who came before (i.e.: outsiders; cosmic beings like Naaru) either directly (being taught) or indirectly (mythology and beliefs).

This is why we have a variety of types of undeath in Warcraft. Consider something like the Infested created by the Botani. These aren't undead in the traditional sense and aren't tagged as undead in a meta context; however, this makes sense for the creation of "undead" from magics associated with life. The Botani are reanimating the corpses by implanting them with flora. This essentially allows these corpses to continue the cycle of life, as allowing them to act as a vessel to incubate this flora continues their purpose while also not allowing the corpses to return to the earth; the corpses that would go on to feed the vermin, plants, and animals will still feed the flora of the Everbloom and may return to the dirt once whatever work the Botani need done is complete.

[cocomen2]

We all know necromancy can be used by many different Forces and is not connected to Death but in the Cosmic chart we have something called „necromantic“ that is tied to Death is this the same as necromancy?

-snip-

In SL all classes were given covenant abilities (necromantic = Death powers) but how many of these powers rises a dead to life?; Necromancy = rising dead bodies to state of undeath can be done by all cosmic powers even if its not Death powers.

[Usernameforforums]

We all know necromancy can be used by many different Forces and is not connected to Death but in the Cosmic chart we have something called „necromantic“ that is tied to Death is this the same as necromancy?

This is the knowledge of the titans which was found to be lacking some information.

[Ielenia]

We don't yet. We haven't been to their realm.

So first you said "dreadlords infiltrated the titans" since the Titans are a cosmic force.
And now you say "we don't know if dreadlords infiltrated the titans".

Pick a damn lane. And stick with it.

[username993720]

So first you said "dreadlords infiltrated the titans" since the Titans are a cosmic force.
And now you say "we don't know if dreadlords infiltrated the titans".

Pick a damn lane. And stick with it.

We don't know a specific Dreadlord, but we know they infiltrated the other cosmic forces.