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  1. #341
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    What? Did you get nothing of what i said?
    The dreadlords have potentially spread the influence of necromancy to the other cosmic forces.
    Mortals draw on these cosmic forces.
    But they never got to Azeroth, where Galakrond was performing necromancy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    But they never got to Azeroth, where Galakrond was performing necromancy.
    -_-


    Whatever made Galakrond raise Proto Dragons as zombies was a certain cosmic force power.
    Last edited by Cloudmaker; 2022-06-09 at 01:12 PM.

  3. #343
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    -_-


    Whatever made Galakrond raise Proto Dragons as zombies was a certain cosmic force power.
    But not the necromancy from Shadowlands.

    Galakrond didn't go to "cosmic force power school" to learn necromancy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    But not the necromancy from Shadowlands.

    Galakrond didn't go to "cosmic force power school" to learn necromancy.
    No. But, a certain cosmic force power influenced him. Perhaps, a Titan keeper infused him with something.

    It doesn't need to be from the Shadowlands. As i've explained, Dreadlords could have spread Shadowlands necromancy to other forces.

  5. #345
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    No. But, a certain cosmic force power influenced him. Perhaps, a Titan keeper infused him with something.
    You do know Galakrond existed before the Titans arrived to Azeroth, right?

    It doesn't need to be from the Shadowlands. As i've explained, Dreadlords could have spread Shadowlands necromancy to other forces.
    "It doesn't have to be from Shadowlands. It has to be from the Shadowlands."

    Are you even bothering to read out loud what you write before you post?
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You do know Galakrond existed before the Titans arrived to Azeroth, right?
    "While the proto-dragons did not know what caused the change in Galakrond, Watcher Tyr's vague wordings imply that he is at fault for Galakrond's actions and mutations as things did not go according to Tyr's plan."

    "It doesn't have to be from Shadowlands. It has to be from the Shadowlands."

    Are you even bothering to read out loud what you write before you post?
    Directly.

  7. #347
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Directly.
    Doesn't matter, though.

    What Galakrond did obviously did not come from the Shadowlands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Doesn't matter, though.

    What Galakrond did obviously did not come from the Shadowlands.
    *facepalm*

    How many times do i need to repeat myself?

    Dreadlords infiltrated the other cosmic forces.
    We know Dreadlords practice Necromancy.
    They probably spread its influence to the other cosmic forces.
    Galakrond's necromantic power comes from one of those cosmic forces.

  9. #349
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Let's overview what @username993720 appears to be saying so we can move on, and they can correct me if I'm wrong. There appear to be four parts to what they're saying:
    (1) Necromancy was spread by the Dreadlords to the other cosmic forces they were infiltrating.
    (2) Galakrond's ability was, by definition, necromancy.
    (3) Galakrond (allegedly) received his ability from experimentation by Tyr.
    (4) Tyr's knowledge indirectly came from the Dreadlords.

    @Ielenia While we don't fully understand the extent of (1), it would be fair to argue that other forces likely saw and emulated this magic the Dreadlords were using, and may have been directly taught how to do so as well. It's possible, and arguably likely, that this is the case to some extent. Looking at (2) and (3), I think we can all agree they are givens; Galakrond did receive his ability from Tyr and it was necromantic in nature. Now, (4) cannot be proven and is probably the weakest part of the argument. Even if we assume (1), (2), and (3) are correct, that does not necessarily imply (4) is true. Even in the aforementioned case of everything being correct, the result of Tyr's experimentation could be an instance of convergent designs or a simple accident (i.e.: he didn't mean for the experiment to result in necromancy).

    Now, arguments against (1) being the case could be:
    - The Necrolords, who likely originated this form of magic, summon creatures from other planes/forces to test their strength against. It's possible that the concept of necromancy was observed and was disseminated by those who had been forcibly summoned and this led to experimentation which led to convergent designs.
    - There is an implied relationship between Aman'thul and the Primus, and it's possible that this relationship was the reason that the Titans believed necromancy solely belonged to Death and why Tyr would subsequently experiment with it.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  10. #350
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Dreadlords infiltrated the other cosmic forces.
    We have zero evidence that the dreadlords infiltrated the Titans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  11. #351

    So Necromantic and Necromancy are different?

    We all know necromancy can be used by many different Forces and is not connected to Death but in the Cosmic chart we have something called „necromantic“ that is tied to Death is this the same as necromancy?


  12. #352
    Over 9000! Kathranis's Avatar
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    I'm more and more convinced that whoever wrote these quests utterly confused the words reanimation and necromancy, perhaps because there was some sort of mandate to use the word "necromancer" a lot in Maldraxxus or something.

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    (4) Tyr's knowledge indirectly came from the Dreadlords.
    I never said Tyr practiced necromancy.
    He was experimenting. That experimentation went wrong.
    Just like G'huun and the other experimentations at Uldir, necromancy seems to be the result:

    "G'huun (pronounced GU-hoon) was an Old God inadvertently created by the Pantheon during their experiments on the other imprisoned Old Gods, as the titans tried to find a solution to the problem that they posed.

    G'huun's corruption was called "underrot". It sought to spread its rot, pestilence and decay across the world and beyond, and to consume Azeroth in the process."

    What they used in their experimentations, we don't know.
    Is it alchemy? Is it magic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    We have zero evidence that the dreadlords infiltrated the Titans.
    "In many ways, the titans will be the easiest to manipulate. Their singular goal is to impose structure upon everything they see.

    Show them a force that opposes their drive for Order, and they will be consumed by their urge to eradicate it.

    Their pantheon, so seemingly united in purpose, is vulnerable to fracturing."

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    Maldraxus and necromancy is the real issue due to the way the shadowlands are said to work.
    Yes.
    Everyone losing their minds over different types of magic having necromancy (...)
    In the entirety of this thread so far there has yet to be someone who takes issue at this. It's fine. Always has been.

  15. #355
    It is interesting that there is so much discussion on this when players have been resurrecting each other in raids for the longest time. Basically we are all walking undead, unless you have yet to die in the game and be resurrected. Basically we the player base have proven that this definition is correct, we just never had it actually defined like this.
    Druids use the power of the earth
    Shaman use elemental power
    Priests and Pallies use the light
    Warlocks use soulstone which I assume is shadow or void
    DK raise an ally with whatever death magic they use
    Heck even Engineers can "shock" someone alive

    Did I miss something?

  16. #356
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Momzuna View Post
    We all know necromancy can be used by many different Forces and is not connected to Death but in the Cosmic chart we have something called „necromantic“ that is tied to Death is this the same as necromancy?
    This has already been discussed in the thread ad nauseum. The Titan cosmological chart is not entirely accurate.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitedrifter View Post
    Basically we the player base have proven that this definition is correct, we just never had it actually defined like this.
    That's exactly right. Zin'Dane's comment doesn't really open the field to new forms of necromancy, it just recategorizes what already existed.

    The problem starts when you observe that Blizzard has been calling things 'necromantic' that don't directly involve the 'reanimation of unliving flesh'. It means 'necromantic' isn't just an action, it's also a property that deserves a better definition. And it feels as though Blizzard has thrown that concept under the bus, or just sort of forgotten about it through this declaration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    This has already been discussed in the thread ad nauseum. The Titan cosmological chart is not entirely accurate.
    It's not just the chart it's also on Blizzard's Shadowlands page. Not to mention we don't have anything supplanting it, just a NPC somewhat contradicting it with a bit of flavour text.

  18. #358
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    "In many ways, the titans will be the easiest to manipulate. Their singular goal is to impose structure upon everything they see.

    Show them a force that opposes their drive for Order, and they will be consumed by their urge to eradicate it.

    Their pantheon, so seemingly united in purpose, is vulnerable to fracturing."
    You said that dreadlords infiltrated the Titans.

    There's a huge difference between mislead/manipulate and infiltrate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Momzuna View Post
    We all know necromancy can be used by many different Forces and is not connected to Death but in the Cosmic chart we have something called „necromantic“ that is tied to Death is this the same as necromancy?
    Old lore being replaced by new lore is not a new concept, and has happened many times in the history of WoW.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  19. #359
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    It's not just the chart it's also on Blizzard's Shadowlands page. Not to mention we don't have anything supplanting it, just a NPC somewhat contradicting it with a bit of flavour text.
    It doesn't necessarily contradict the Shadowlands description of Maldraxxus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzard Home Page
    Within war-torn Maldraxxus, might—of all kinds—makes right. Here, in the birthplace of necromantic magic, those who master the powers of death turn legions of ambitious souls into relentless undead armies.
    The "birthplace of necromantic magic" speaks to its origin (where it is from), but not a persistent source (what it is powered by/used by). Imagine this in the context of some creative activity, like painting. If you asked an art connoisseur "what was the cradle of renaissance art?", you would probably get the response "Florence, Italy"; however, if you asked that same person "does all renaissance art come from Italy?", they would say something along the lines of "no, but it did serve as an inspiration".

    Think of magic in a similar vein, a creative work that can inspire others. In the case of necromancy, this would be like renaissance art, except it would find its place of origin - its birthplace - in Maldraxxus. While this would imply that Maldraxxus was, wittingly or unwittingly, the inspiration for all subsequent necromancers, all this means is that the necromancy used by the other forces is derivative of (or inspired by) their work.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You said that dreadlords infiltrated the Titans.

    There's a huge difference between mislead/manipulate and infiltrate.
    We don't yet. We haven't been to their realm.
    You didn't know Light had a Dreadlord named Lothraxion until Legion, did you?

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