To Be Forsaken

[Ardenaso]

I'd rather have Calia ruling Tirisfal for humans and the alliance.

or perhaps join Leonid and Judkins in the Argent Crusade

[Super Dickmann]

Actually Varodoc I would say neither Blizzard nor the Forsaken players know how to be Forsaken. When the Forsaken were introduced in Warcraft 3 they were supposed to be something different from the Scourge. Something better than the Scourge. Instead come World of Warcraft the Forsaken are doing the exact same things as the Scourge even in Vanilla killing villages of living people around with the excuse that they are gonna get attacked according to Sylvannas. Ambermill was one of them which was a city of Dalaran mages and somehow the Kirin Tor never learned of that situation. .

The Forsaken's founding sentence in WC3 is that they will slaughter anyone who gets in their way after having just seized Capital City after killing the remaining humans holding it. This revisionist nonsense fools no one, not even you, since you don't believe it either you're just using it as a point-scoring exercise in a match that was won by the Unifaction 5 years ago with BTS. The inability to take a win is why even after Calia's formally placed the presence of a vestige of the actual Forsaken identity on a meme council promotes asspain. Asspain that will never be resolved because none of these characters will appear again except to tell us how cool + nice Calia is in a one-off cameo two expansions from now.

[Varodoc]

The Forsaken's founding sentence in WC3 is that they will slaughter anyone who gets in their way after having just seized Capital City after killing the remaining humans holding it. This revisionist nonsense fools no one, not even you, since you don't believe it either you're just using it as a point-scoring exercise in a match that was won by the Unifaction 5 years ago with BTS. The inability to take a win is why even after Calia's formally placed the presence of a vestige of the actual Forsaken identity on a meme council promotes asspain. Asspain that will never be resolved because none of these characters will appear again except to tell us how cool + nice Calia is in a one-off cameo two expansions from now.

"ANYONE WHO GETS IN THEIR WAY"

Last I checked, the innocent civilians of Teldrassil and the innocent Derek Proudmoore were not in the way.

[Super Dickmann]

"ANYONE WHO GETS IN THEIR WAY"

Last I checked, the innocent civilians of Teldrassil and the innocent Derek Proudmoore were not in the way.

Troll shamans and orc catapult operators were more involved in torching the tree than any Forsaken and every Proudmoore is a threat to everyone else's screentime inshallah.

[Tarba]

Forsaken lore became to retarded to save at the start of cata. We had a near unlimited supply of new forsaken in Northrend with the defeat of Arthas. And instead of letting forsaken help them getting released from the retarded new lich king control they chose to make them raise new ones.
Forsaken had one thing in mind. Getting revenge on the one who raised them. Why the fuck would they do it also ? And why the fuck new forsaken would follow them ?

Calia is just a new retarded idea to make sure that the forsaken don't look to much different than humans. That was the last race to Anduinify. Calia is not a forsaken, she is a Menethil and she is useless.

[Varodoc]

Troll shamans and orc catapult operators were more involved in torching the tree than any Forsaken and every Proudmoore is a threat to everyone else's screentime inshallah.

Yeah sure, that excuse didn't help a certain group of people at a certain trial irl and it definitely didn't help Garrosh at the Celestial Trial.

Sorry buddy, whether you actually carried out the act yourself or not, you're still responsible for ordering it.

[Darth-Piekus]

We are the Forsaken and we will slaughter anyone who stands in our way.


People fail to understand that it's more like a metaphor of a dead nation trying to rebuild their lives back and want to be left alone. A metaphor that will go against those who want to exterminate them as monsters. They simply want to rebuild their old kingdom and not starting killing left and right. Personally I am very glad they got Calia, Voss and Derek. They will change the Forsaken at what they intended to be.

[Super Dickmann]

@Varodoc

Yes, and as we know from the Celestials, Garrosh did nothing wrong and was always fated to get out. Everyone else had to learn and grow from his experience on the stand.

We are the Forsaken and we will slaughter anyone who stands in our way.

People fail to understand that it's more like a metaphor of a dead nation trying to rebuild their lives back and want to be left alone. A metaphor that will go against those who want to exterminate them as monsters. They simply want to rebuild their old kingdom and not starting killing left and right. Personally I am very glad they got Calia, Voss and Derek. They will change the Forsaken at what they intended to be.

No, it's not a metaphor, it's literal, because they'd physically killed the Lordaeronian humans not five seconds ago, much like it takes you three quests in Vanilla to get to the Forsaken talking about a new world order. The Forsaken characters of TFT are Sylvanas and Varimathras, their lines and actions are the sum of their WC3 identity. Again, you aren't fooling anyone with this bs, I don't know why you even bother, there's no ambiguity to slaughtering anyone in your way or to a new world order. Just adopt the straight-up position of shilling for Calia without any of the 15-year Forsaken identity which is ravaging you at this very moment, it's intellectually honest and doesn't require any of these asinine logical contortions.

[Ersula]

No, it's not a metaphor, it's literal, because they'd physically killed the Lordaeronian humans not five seconds ago.

ALL FACTIONS KILL SAPIENT RACES ENCROACHING ON THEIR LANDS IN THEIR NEWBIE ZONE.

Those lines are no different from any other major horde or alliance faction; just with more fearsome semantics. It's a scary aesthetic twist.

Those are farmers pledged to the Scarlet crusade; an extremist faction that was disavowed by Lordaeron's government even before it fell: How is killing them different from newbie Human players killing Defias farmers in their starting zones? You try to use aesthetics to expose a hypocrisy but your conclusion is backwards.

- - - Updated - - -

"ANYONE WHO GETS IN THEIR WAY"

Last I checked, the innocent civilians of Teldrassil and the innocent Derek Proudmoore were not in the way.

Jaina, murdering Sunreaver sympathizers in their sleep: "I'm going to be really sorry about this tomorrow so don't worry about it."

[Powerogue]

For the love of god Grazrug. Sylvannas is not the Sylvannas you knew anymore. Even if she was back she would be a completely different person. Considering there is now a way to make Souls whole again she would have tried to make the Forsaken whole in terms of Souls as they must have shared the Same Fate and thus changing their whole society.

IDK, does anyone else have access to whatever pocket dimension The Jailer stored soul fragments in? I don't feel like there's been any implication of that coming.

Jeremiah Payson: I finally feel whole, I remember what my original calling in life was! Not roach salesman, *dons armor* CONQUEROR!!!
Calia: Welp, that backfired.

[Varodoc]

@Varodoc

Yes, and as we know from the Celestials, Garrosh did nothing wrong and was always fated to get out. Everyone else had to learn and grow from his experience on the stand.



No, it's not a metaphor, it's literal, because they'd physically killed the Lordaeronian humans not five seconds ago, much like it takes you three quests in Vanilla to get to the Forsaken talking about a new world order. The Forsaken characters of TFT are Sylvanas and Varimathras, their lines and actions are the sum of their WC3 identity. Again, you aren't fooling anyone with this bs, I don't know why you even bother, there's no ambiguity to slaughtering anyone in your way or to a new world order. Just adopt the straight-up position of shilling for Calia without any of the 15-year Forsaken identity which is ravaging you at this very moment, it's intellectually honest and doesn't require any of these asinine logical contortions.

Since you're always so sarcastic and humorous, I'm sure that's not what the Celestials really said.

But I do seem to recall quite clearly the Celestials listing out all of Garrosh's war crimes (hence the name of the novel ), amongst which was genocide, and I don't remember Baine (Garrosh's lawyer) ever justifying Garrosh by saying that he technically didn't do those things himself...

The Forsaken characters of TFT are Sylvanas and Varimathras

Neither of them cared about the Forsaken and only used them as pawns, then threw them under the bus when they were no longer useful.

They don't get to decide what the Forsaken stand for, because they never cared about the Forsaken in the first place.

Otherwise, the Horde stands for genocide and destruction because that's what the Legion dictated back in WC1.

Which, by the way, I don't disagree with.

[Ersula]

IDK, does anyone else have access to whatever pocket dimension The Jailer stored soul fragments in? I don't feel like there's been any implication of that coming.

??? Not every undead's soul is split. He only did that with very specific people.

[Aresk]

Actually Varodoc I would say neither Blizzard nor the Forsaken players know how to be Forsaken. When the Forsaken were introduced in Warcraft 3 they were supposed to be something different from the Scourge. Something better than the Scourge. Instead come World of Warcraft the Forsaken are doing the exact same things as the Scourge even in Vanilla killing villages of living people around with the excuse that they are gonna get attacked according to Sylvannas. Ambermill was one of them which was a city of Dalaran mages and somehow the Kirin Tor never learned of that situation.

Were they ever really that different? Sylvanas gained free will: her first action was to try to kill Arthas, and when that failed, she then went around conquering Lordaeron (just like the Scourge). She employed mind control regularly throughout her campaign (just like the Lich King was mind controlling his minions before), and she even turned Varimathras against his brethren (just like the Scourge and Arthas). The average Forsaken isn't even shown to be intelligent in TFT, aside from banshees. What we have as Forsaken characters in Classic don't even have a representative among the group in TFT, with the turned citizens of Stratholme in the original Scourge campaign being the closest look alike. The entire Forsaken narrative as presented in WC3 is a group of undead doing their best to ensure they can remain free of external influence, which is nearly identical to Ner'zhul's goals throughout: escape the frozen throne and his dreadlord captors. While they remain different, everything from story arc to motivation to methods to geopolitical impact remains nearly identical.

- - - Updated - - -

Neither of them cared about the Forsaken and only used them as pawns, then threw them under the bus when they were no longer useful.

They don't get to decide what the Forsaken stand for, because they never cared about the Forsaken in the first place.

That doesn't change the fact that they're the only representative voice of the Forsaken. I feel you'd also be hard pressed to support your stance on Sylvanas purely from the game materials, given she has very little interaction with her forces beyond talking with banshees, and those she refers to with the term of endearment "sister." While this has been recontextualized since TFT, within the scope of that game, the only real forsaken characters to talk are Sylvanas and the banshees, and their goals and methods aligned throughout. There's no reason to believe the Forsaken stood for anything different at the time. While they are welcome to change those views (and did), at the time of TFT, the Forsaken's only stated goal was to conquer Lordaeron and ensure their freedom by defeating anyone in the area who would make them slaves again.

[schwank05]

it will be like the loyalist questline, blizzard aknowledge they are shitting on everything but whatever, they will ignore it.
belmont and apothecaries wont ever appears, forsaken now will be smelly humans...

fuck blizzard and praise to putress, he was right all along

Hell yes, one of the best lines in the game. "Do you think we had forgotten, Do you think we had forgiven?" I have been been of the mind that the Forsaken should have went down this path blighting and killing everything. They should have been a 3rd Faction that was at War with both the other factions.

[Dancaris]

For f sake, you can read some forsaken lore, no?
Forsaken looks for their place to exist, not BLIGHT EVERYTHING AND KILL ALL LIVING. They need purpose, and Blizz are lacking to define that. Even players have different ideas of it. Some want sick-blooded maniacs, some - noble undead people. Some wants even necromansers (lolwhat, their most horrible memory is been razed, and now we should raze more, heh. Brilliant logic) To me - we can start to define by who they are forsaken, and now we are talking.

[Varodoc]

Hell yes, one of the best lines in the game. "Do you think we had forgotten, Do you think we had forgiven?" I have been been of the mind that the Forsaken should have went down this path blighting and killing everything. They should have been a 3rd Faction that was at War with both the other factions.

It's rich that you like the Forsaken, but then quote one of their greatest betrayers, who sold the Forsaken over to the Legion, ruined their reputation at a geopolitical level, betrayed their Banshee Queen, and almost caused Sargeras himself to be summoned into the Undercity.

Why are you quoting Putress when he betrayed and completely threw the Forsaken under the bus?

[Ardenaso]

The Forsaken's founding sentence in WC3 is that they will slaughter anyone who gets in their way after having just seized Capital City after killing the remaining humans holding it. This revisionist nonsense fools no one, not even you, since you don't believe it either you're just using it as a point-scoring exercise in a match that was won by the Unifaction 5 years ago with BTS. The inability to take a win is why even after Calia's formally placed the presence of a vestige of the actual Forsaken identity on a meme council promotes asspain. Asspain that will never be resolved because none of these characters will appear again except to tell us how cool + nice Calia is in a one-off cameo two expansions from now.

which is weird as they never did any shit to the Argent Dawn who took a piece of Lordaeron land (Light's hope chapel) then the next day they already own the entire Eastweald

[omeomorfismo]

It's rich that you like the Forsaken, but then quote one of their greatest betrayers, who sold the Forsaken over to the Legion, ruined their reputation at a geopolitical level, betrayed their Banshee Queen, and almost caused Sargeras himself to be summoned into the Undercity.

Why are you quoting Putress when he betrayed and completely threw the Forsaken under the bus?

because literally all the burning legion is an asspull to make the questline for both factions. literally not a single word in the cinematic hint about BL, is 100% pure forsaken hatred

[Raisei]

because literally all the burning legion is an asspull to make the questline for both factions. literally not a single word in the cinematic hint about BL, is 100% pure forsaken hatred

Yep, as so many times since and before Blizzard wrote themselves into a corner where the only logical end was to wipe the Forsaken out, but they couldn't do that, so that whole "Sylvanas was betrayed!" nonesense happened. As I said, the whole race had no place in player hands.

[Varodoc]

because literally all the burning legion is an asspull to make the questline for both factions. literally not a single word in the cinematic hint about BL, is 100% pure forsaken hatred

Whether it was mentioned in the cutscene or not is irrelevant, the two events (Wrathgate and Battle of Undercity) take place literally in the same patch and so, when Blizzard wrote the dialogue of Putress, they also knew he was going to betray the Forsaken and turn Undercity over to the Legion.

So it's just funny to me how the "quintessential" Forsaken quote was spoken by someone who actually betrayed the Forsaken and willingly gave their capital to the Legion in a coup d'état.

You cannot say that it was an "asspull", because it was planned from the start. Putress was always supposed to be a traitor.

It should also be noted that Sylvanas basically told Putress to unleash the blight on Arthas if the opportunity presented itself. She would not have been explicitly against the Wrathgate. And so, many of Putress' followers at the Wrathgate could have remained loyal to Sylvanas. Which means, that Putress' pretty speech about "Forsaken vengeance" was probably just a ruse to trick the other apothecaries into thinking he was still loyal to Sylvanas. He never cared about any "Forsaken vengeance".