Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Cthulhu 2020]

You mean when a cashier girl asks me "Do you want fries with that?" - it's predatory monetization?

This is what is known as upselling, and having managed fast food in my younger years I can tell you with absolute certainty that yes, it is predatory. Customers have food in mind that they want, they order it, and then all of your employees start trying to upsell drinks and fries. If the costumer wanted them, they would have ordered them. But this simple question gets an enormous amount of people to buy $3 soft drinks that cost 2 cents to make when they otherwise wouldn't have.

Next?

Psychology is not exactly science.

ROFL AHAHAHAHAHAH OMFG OMLLLLLL LOLOLOLOL AHAHAH

Oh god, you caught me off guard with that one. Yes, Psychology isn't science. Neither is biology if that's the case.

I get what you were trying to go for though. You were trying to claim that psychology isn't accurate, which is patently false. The conclusions of psychological studies will not always apply to every single person. But the number of exceptions are far fewer than you would think. People are incredibly easy to manipulate. One day when you grow up, you might learn that. Either that or you'll be one of the manipulated ones. And if you're grown up and you haven't learned that people are incredibly easy to manipulate with psychological tricks... Well... that's unfortunate for you now isn't it?

You should feel guilty for playing for free.

And this ladies and gents, is the entire reason the gaming industry is going to shit. If you're being honest and not in your T-- persona, people like you are the reason AAA games suck so much donkey scrotum lately.

[Gaidax]

Yeahhh... I think I'll stop right there.

This is simply pathetic, Blizzard. You can have some of the weirdos in this thread to pick up my slack on that one and D:I as a whole.

A shame really.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Ooh, interesting is it a big name? Let's see how it's doing financially!

There are plenty of mobile games that don't shove spending in your face aside from letting you know where the shop is, and plenty of them are doing just fine. I thought you played a lot of mobile games? Was that a lie too?

And all of them deserve to exist. If they were bad - no one would play them. If you don't like sales - play those less successful games that get by without sales.

Funny part about that, as someone who's been an avid mobile gamer, it's been hilarious to watch the overly monetized games fade into obscurity. My biggest concern though is that corporations are desperately trying to push them into some form of "acceptance" among western audiences, because they know these kinds of games absolutely print money off stupid people.

I was against the sparkle pony back in wrath of the lich king, stating that it would lead Blizzard down the road to ruin and pay to win in their games. Everyone told me I was crazy and stupid. Now I get to laugh at them, as well as cry at the fact that one of my favorite franchises is effectively dead.

I think the best part about all of this is, if this game didn't have the Diablo Pedigree, nobody would play it, period. You might get a few curious players the first month who then jump ship.

[Elim Garak]

This is what is known as upselling, and having managed fast food in my younger years I can tell you with absolute certainty that yes, it is predatory.
Next?

Oh no, we are done. If that's predatory then everything that sells is predatory. Even the iPhone on which people play Diablo - it was sold predatorily.

Oh god, you caught me off guard with that one. Yes, Psychology isn't science. Neither is biology if that's the case.

Biology is science. Psychology is not. But it wants to be. Not there yet.

I get what you were trying to go for though. You were trying to claim that psychology isn't accurate, which is patently false. The conclusions of psychological studies will not always apply to every single person. But the number of exceptions are far fewer than you would think. People are incredibly easy to manipulate. One day when you grow up, you might learn that. Either that or you'll be one of the manipulated ones. And if you're grown up and you haven't learned that people are incredibly easy to manipulate with psychological tricks... Well... that's unfortunate for you now isn't it?

Well, my knowledge of psychology says that it's actually you who needs some introspection and self-reflection and since you think that Psychology is science - you should follow my advice, but the same Psychology says that probability of that is about zero. Let's test it.

And this ladies and gents, is the entire reason the gaming industry is going to shit. If you're being honest and not in your T-- persona, people like you are the reason AAA games suck so much donkey scrotum lately.

No, it's the other way around. People like you, who feel entitled to free games and complain about monetization in them, are the reason developers are going out of their way to make people pay.

The market is a two way street. You cannot blame one side for where it's going.

[ketsui]

Oh no, we are done. If that's predatory then everything that sells is predatory. Even the iPhone on which people play Diablo - it was sold predatorily.





Biology is science. Psychology is not. But it wants to be. Not there yet.

Well, my knowledge of psychology says that it's actually you who needs some introspection and self-reflection and since you think that Psychology is science - you should follow my advice, but the same Psychology says that probability of that is about zero. Let's test it.



No, it's the other way around. People like you, who feel entitled to free games and complain about monetization in them, are the reason developers are going out of their way to make people pay.

The market is a two way street. You cannot blame one side for where it's going.

this guy still simping for blizzard? wow

[Aliven]

Yeahhh... I think I'll stop right there.

This is simply pathetic, Blizzard. You can have some of the weirdos in this thread to pick up my slack on that one and D:I as a whole.

A shame really.

C'mon man, this is one time deal. Are you sure you dont want to buy it? You would never ever again have a chance to get it buddy! And look, there are gems, crests and orbs, all fancy names!

[Cthulhu 2020]

Oh no, we are done. If that's predatory then everything that sells is predatory. Even the iPhone on which people play Diablo - it was sold predatorily.

There's a difference between offering a product someone wants to buy, and using psychological tricks to get them into buying something they weren't even wanting to buy.

But if you can't tell the difference between those two things, that's your problem, not mine. Blame the education system you went to.

Biology is science. Psychology is not.

Google

No, it's the other way around. People like you, who feel entitled to free games and complain about monetization in them, are the reason developers are going out of their way to make people pay.

Ah yes. You are on these forums thinking I am some free to play leech who hates Diablo Immoral because I am a poor. That just shows how out of touch you are, or how bad your reading and comprehension skills are. One of the two.

But see, you're wrong for the 19,765th post on these boards, woo congratulations!

I am a western player with a decent income. I like to buy games that I buy them, and I can play them forever. If Diablo Immortal had a $60 box price and some $20 DLC, I might have bought both as long as everything else I could earn in game. I think DLC is fine if it's delivered like an expansion pack long after release, but feel dubious about day 1 DLC. I want games to be games. Not cash grabs with pretty graphics. Before giant corporations got their grubby mitts on gaming, people often made video games for the passion of it. It was an unknown territory, so people just kept making whatever. There was no market research, and we got some truly beautiful gems from those times.

Decades later, there's mountains of data on what works and what doesn't, and games are made for maximum profit. "BUT NINTENDO AND SONY ARE BIG CORPORATIONS!" and their video gaming studios were very small. Each one had about as many game devs as an indie studio does today.

The market is a two way street. You cannot blame one side for where it's going.

In the same way that I can't blame someone for stabbing me because they didn't like my hair, I certainly can't blame Blizzard for implementing predatory monetization that manipulates people into spending money they otherwise wouldn't have!

I do like how every single one of your "points" aren't even coherently linked. Like now you're even resorting to blaming the payers for the fact that this exists. The reality is that human psychology is INCREDIBLY easy to manipulate (it's happening to you right now and you'll never even figure it out!). If you've not heard the phrase "Plant the idea then make him believe he was the one who thought of it" or other similar psychological tricks, you'd be amazed at how easy they are to pull off.




But here's the biggest point in all of this: If you deny that Blizzard is using techniques to purposefully manipulate people to spend money, then you deny that manipulation of any sort can happen period. Using manipulative sales tactics to get someone to buy something they don't want goes back hundreds if not thousands of years.

[Elim Garak]

But here's the biggest point in all of this: If you deny that Blizzard is using techniques to purposefully manipulate people to spend money, then you deny that manipulation of any sort can happen period. Using manipulative sales tactics to get someone to buy something they don't want goes back hundreds if not thousands of years.

I skipped all the nonsense above - I'm really too old for that shit

But this point is a clear example of your misunderstanding. You are literally using subjective negative language to describe something that is not objectively negative. Marketing.

That IS manipulation.

So you are a hypocrite.

Also you've demonstrated that I understand psychology well.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I skipped all the nonsense above

Translation: "You're probably right but I gotta save face because I have to WIN AN ARGUMENT ON THE INTERNET"

And if you think that the D:I model of monetization isn't predatory that utilizes human psychology to manipulate people into spending money, then you know jack shit about psychology.

[Jerot]

But this point is a clear example of your misunderstanding. You are literally using subjective negative language to describe something that is not objectively negative. Marketing.

That IS manipulation.

Because context matters,

Marketing implies they are raising awareness of content and features players could spend money on, or the potential benefits they could receive if they did.

Manipulation is hiding how much you are expected to spend until credit card details have already been entered. And never displaying the true odds of success in something involving chance.

If there are 10 slots for crests, why show 0/3 when using the 1-2 you get for free? Why set the pricing up so someone buys 10 as the "most efficient package" figuring they might get 3 dungeons out of it, and then show them they can actually spend them all in one with the (add 7 crests) button that only appears after you add 3?

There is no point in arguing this. You can ignore it if you want, but you can't call an apple an orange and expect anyone to take you seriously. We can tell you don't actually care about the game or the discussion around it. Are you sure you are playing a cardassian and not a pakled?

[Gaidax]

C'mon man, this is one time deal. Are you sure you dont want to buy it? You would never ever again have a chance to get it buddy! And look, there are gems, crests and orbs, all fancy names!

Oh I bought enough already and let me tell you from personal experience. The rewards you see there are an absolute tiny drop in the ocean - these crests, orbs and gems are not even enough to get even one half decent gem, let alone upgrade it.

They expect you to pay what you'd pay for a decent AA or even almost AAA game for something that won't even be enough to upgrade one bad quality gem a few ranks. Like really - all that shit there would be enough effectively to maybe upgrade 2 star gem from level 1 to 4 out of 10. The 20 crests would assuredly give you jack shit that you can't even sell - I think I downed about ~40 legendary crests so far and I have one 3 star gem to show for it as the top drop that was just upgrade fuel because it was a shit gem. So 50 eurobucks for that? lol.


Which is my biggest gripe here. It's not even F2P vs whales problem - it's a paying customer vs whales problem, because if you pay reasonably well (let's say 50 or even 100 bucks a month) - you are still effectively nobody, as far as power curve goes.

I personally clocked around 100 bucks so far (yes I'm part of the problem) and I'm stopping now, because I feel that what I got in return was an absolute joke.

I'd rather take my money and time elsewhere, where it would get more respect.

[Jerot]

Which is my biggest gripe here. It's not even F2P vs whales problem - it's a paying customer vs whales problem, because if you pay reasonably well (let's say 50 or even 100 bucks a month) - you are still effectively nobody, as far as power curve goes.

I don't think this is a new problem for Blizzard, one of the last bastions of the "you aren't even worthy of playing the game you paid for unless you shell out $20 a month" mentality. By their math, if only 1% of f2p players convert, they're going to need at least $2,000 before you're considered a "real" player.

[Witchblade77]

my SO plays this very much a pay to win mobile game (not Raid but similar). he is not a free player, but all he buys is the equivalent of boon of plenty once a month. he knows the game is pay to win - EVERYONE who plays it knows its pay to win, he is ok with it, because that subscription is enough to keep him at the competitive level that works for him, not a top player but holding his own while playing relatively casually.

he watched me play DI and explain some of the systems to him as I was using (or ignoring) them, Josh's video explained some more and you know what his reaction was? "this makes my game look player friendly" Blizzard out monetized the Asian pay to win mobile game. its honestly impressive on a morbid way.

[Gaidax]

I don't think this is a new problem for Blizzard, one of the last bastions of the "you aren't even worthy of playing the game you paid for unless you shell out $20 a month" mentality. By their math, if only 1% of f2p players convert, they're going to need at least $2,000 before you're considered a "real" player.

It is a new problem for Blizzard, because I don't really think they had a title so far where a player who puts out 50-100 bucks a month into a game is absolutely and hopelessly outmatched by whales.


It's a point of you can't even make the gap up by being good, because it's outright impossible in D:I.

People here keep bringing WoW token up and I laugh, because true enough you can buy shitton of gold and then buy shitton of boosts, but you can also be like myself a seasoned raider for many years who gets top of the line max ilvl and power gear in ~ two months every tier just by playing the game and I only pop a token once in like 2 months to keep up with various raiding expenses so I won't have to grind.

In D:I - you can't do it. You can be a literal GOD gamer spend 23 hours a day playing and 1 hour sleeping and you are simply hard capped from getting gems with any reasonable rate by playing. And EVEN if you pay a "sub" (20-100 bucks a month) - you are still literally nobody.

It is absolutely a new problem for Blizzard, because before you could pay a little and get reasonable return. D:I - it just does not work.

- - - Updated - - -

my SO plays this very much a pay to win mobile game (not Raid but similar). he is not a free player, but all he buys is the equivalent of boon of plenty once a month. he knows the game is pay to win - EVERYONE who plays it knows its pay to win, he is ok with it, because that subscription is enough to keep him at the competitive level that works for him, not a top player but holding his own while playing relatively casually.

he watched me play DI and explain some of the systems to him as I was using (or ignoring) them, Josh's video explained some more and you know what his reaction was? "this makes my game look player friendly" Blizzard out monetized the Asian pay to win mobile game. its honestly impressive on a morbid way.

Yes, they truly pushed the line with this piece of shit. Heck "pushed the line", more like fucking blasted through it with a space rocket.

MTX and even P2W games ain't my first rodeo and I indicated plenty that I don't mind tossing even 100 bucks a month at a game I like and I usually feel good about it with returns and perks. But here - it's like, you put out 100 bucks... and you get jack shit and you legit need to pump thousands to make a dent.

It's THAT bad.

[qwerty123456]

You don't even need to speculate on turning low-end spenders into whales. Most players don't have the wherewithal to be that and will be able to resist the temptation to stop buying food to feed the game. There are psychological tricks to get you to spend. That's a fact. It's offensive to assume that the only people able to resist them are the crowd here raging about the game.

Where did I say any of this? ^^

All I said was they don't care if they get a million$ from 10k people or a million people and its alot easier to keep those 10k players once you got them invested into the game. F2P players aren't there out of the kindness of their hearts. They are there 1. to give the spenders people to play with/against. and 2. to hopefully be tricked into becoming a spender.

[Gaidax]

All I said was they don't care if they get a million$ from 10k people or a million people and its alot easier to keep those 10k players once you got them invested into the game

Factually incorrect.

Blizzard's games success comes from millions of players who went through their games over the course of existence. There is a strength in numbers aside from direct money conversion. 10k whales won't make hundreds of thousands views for Blizzard's products - the mass is good in this business. This is why MAUs and "engagement" is so important - it's people who can very easily hop to another product in the portfolio.

There is a lot more to a business plan than just "find 10k whales and keep 'em".

[Th3Scourge]

Are people still playing this game? Got very boring around level 40. It's the same as D3, and the novelty to play a game I got over 5 years ago on my phone wore off really quick.

I don't understand how idiots can pump money into this shit

[Gaidax]

Are people still playing this game? Got very boring around level 40. It's the same as D3, and the novelty to play a game I got over 5 years ago on my phone wore off really quick.

I don't understand how idiots can pump money into this shit

It is better than D3. It's what D3 should have been.

If D3 would launch with PvP, Raids and Shadow/Immortal system with all the alternate progression and minigames it brings - it would be in a whole another place.

D:I's no.1 issue is predatory MTX, but out of the gate it's a better game than D3 ever was - even if mobile forces it to be too simple.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, I don't mind spending money for entertainment within reason. I don't understand people who are being pinch penny over having some fun for themselves.

I popped a chill 100 bucks into D:I and I am going to dump it - don't mind one bit. Had a week of fun there, so got my money's worth in my book, even given the sour aftertaste from seeing Blizzard, on which games I grew up, at their worst.

[Th3Scourge]

It is better than D3. It's what D3 should have been.

If D3 would launch with PvP, Raids and Shadow/Immortal system with all the alternate progression and minigames it brings - it would be in a whole another place.

D:I's no.1 issue is predatory MTX, but out of the gate it's a better game than D3 ever was - even if mobile forces it to be too simple.

Nah D:I's no.1 issue is that the game gets boring as fuck really quickly.

[Gaidax]

Nah D:I's no.1 issue is that the game gets boring as fuck really quickly.

Different folks different strokes.

People still play D3 and D2 to this day and heck... these games have like nothing. D3 is practically rifts and that's it and D2 is not even that.

On that front D:I is absolutely and vastly superior, thanks to having half a dozen game modes right out the gate. Its 2 issues are MTX and that gameplay is very simple, because it's a mobile after all.