Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[MoanaLisa]

Oh no, we are done. If that's predatory then everything that sells is predatory. Even the iPhone on which people play Diablo - it was sold predatorily.

In its most basic form capitalism is a predatory economic system. Upselling, advertisements, all of it is to help sell product. That's one reason why this conversation is ridiculous.

Blizzard shows you an ad in a game. The sky falls in.

Network TV shows in the U.S. run 20 minutes of ads in almost all programs/productions. People say little or nothing about it. And for good reason. The choice is to watch the show, not watch the show or wait for it to show up on some streaming channel that you're paying extra for to avoid ads.

The basic root cause of all the complaints is that Blizzard and everyone else is engaging in capitalism. It's a pointless argument.

[Darkeon]

If one thought that the conversation couldn't get any lamer than "Theres no predatory monetization in games, every monetization system is fine", now we got tankies discussing how predatory capitalism is.

This thread is hilarious. Always worth the read.

[Jtbrig7390]

Different folks different strokes.

People still play D3 and D2 to this day and heck... these games have like nothing. D3 is practically rifts and that's it and D2 is not even that.

On that front D:I is absolutely and vastly superior, thanks to having half a dozen game modes right out the gate. Its 2 issues are MTX and that gameplay is very simple, because it's a mobile after all.

Honestly I would be playing the shit out of D:I right now if it wasn't for the shitty MTX system. It has a lot of things (POE style kinda) that I've wanted in a diablo game for ages.

But the MTX system outright kills the game for me.

[Jerot]

It is better than D3. It's what D3 should have been.

Simplicity and hidden caps aside, I don't like the forced online element and I'm worried about its implications for D4. I like the more traditional model of singleplayer focused grind with optional partying and online economy.

Being forced to compete for bounty targets sucks. Quests that involve killing 80 monsters for 20 quest drops are outdated design. Multiplayer dungeons never felt right for the format. Didn't enjoy them in Marvel Heroes, didn't like them in DI.

IMO, Scaling monsters defeats the purpose of powering up your character with gear and levels. Even if the stats are 10x higher, you don't have the reference to feel powerful against.

The Shadow/Immortal stuff did look cool for those who care about PvP. Mainly because it is new content, and D3 got very little in the way of updates outside of the single expansion.

[Kyanion]

It is better than D3. It's what D3 should have been.

Different folks different strokes.

Weird, I think D3 shits over what D:I should have been. Take out the stupid P2W crap and there might be a good game there somewhere.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, I don't mind spending money for entertainment within reason. I don't understand people who are being pinch penny over having some fun for themselves.

I popped a chill 100 bucks into D:I and I am going to dump it - don't mind one bit. Had a week of fun there, so got my money's worth in my book, even given the sour aftertaste from seeing Blizzard, on which games I grew up, at their worst.

Yeah I love spending more than a AAA game or two for a mobile game. And you STILL are far behind spending that if you were the type to do PvP (I'm not doing PvP just giving it as an example of frustrations people are running into). Normally in a Diablo game I don't care how far behind I am in the gear curve to others, but since this has forced grouping it gets pretty stupid.

[Delekii]

In its most basic form capitalism is a predatory economic system. Upselling, advertisements, all of it is to help sell product. That's one reason why this conversation is ridiculous.

Blizzard shows you an ad in a game. The sky falls in.

Network TV shows in the U.S. run 20 minutes of ads in almost all programs/productions. People say little or nothing about it. And for good reason. The choice is to watch the show, not watch the show or wait for it to show up on some streaming channel that you're paying extra for to avoid ads.

The basic root cause of all the complaints is that Blizzard and everyone else is engaging in capitalism. It's a pointless argument.

What utter trollop. You say "engaging in capitalism" as if engaging in capitalism without regulation isn't the basis of nearly all scams and financial ruin of people's lives.

It's possible to engage in capitalism morally.

Tv ads aren't remotely comparable. A more appropriate analogy is when you're watching a movie and product placement is so absurd and out of place that it makes you double take, and people absolutely complain about that, because it fucks up the quality of the movie. TV ads aren't designed to be inline with the program, seamlessly offering products that improve the quality of the show you are watching and saying "gee, dontcha wanna watch the GOOD version of this show for only 9.95?!"

Another great example of the utter failure of unregulated capitalism is the American Healthcare system, which is an utter farce and a joke to most other first world countries. Regulation is good for consumers the majority of the time.

[pahbi]

What utter trollop. You say "engaging in capitalism" as if engaging in capitalism without regulation isn't the basis of nearly all scams and financial ruin of people's lives.

It's possible to engage in capitalism morally.

Tv ads aren't remotely comparable. A more appropriate analogy is when you're watching a movie and product placement is so absurd and out of place that it makes you double take, and people absolutely complain about that, because it fucks up the quality of the movie. TV ads aren't designed to be inline with the program, seamlessly offering products that improve the quality of the show you are watching and saying "gee, dontcha wanna watch the GOOD version of this show for only 9.95?!"

Another great example of the utter failure of unregulated capitalism is the American Healthcare system, which is an utter farce and a joke to most other first world countries. Regulation is good for consumers the majority of the time.

Time and time again I've sat and listened to my tough 'MURICA friends talk about not wanting that stupid socialized medicine. Then they or a family member gets sick and they can't afford the health care. Next thing you know they aren't so tough anymore and upset that healthcare is so expensive.

Oh well...

In any case I don't really fault Blizz nor any other company for that matter, for being so slimey with micro transactions and pay to win.

They do it because it works, and it works because sheeple think this is how it is supposed to be and won't vote with their wallets.

How in the world folks don't understand that businesses only respond to $$$ is beyond me.

[Darkeon]

Time and time again I've sat and listened to my tough 'MURICA friends talk about not wanting that stupid socialized medicine. Then they or a family member gets sick and they can't afford the health care. Next thing you know they aren't so tough anymore and upset that healthcare is so expensive.

Until the waiting list is too long or the service is so shitpoor that you end up going to a private hospital clinic anyways, paying premium for proper care.

Sincerely, someone that lives in of those countries with the miraculous socialized healthcare.

[Biomega]

Until the waiting list is too long or the service is so shitpoor that you end up going to a private hospital clinic anyways, paying premium for proper care.

Sincerely, someone that lives in of those countries with the miraculous socialized healthcare.

You know how long it takes to get a fucking dentist appointment or other mundane shit in the US? I need two teeth extracted, and just to get the CONSULT took 2 months. The actual extraction isn't for another 3. In fucking 'Murrica land of the apparently-somehow-NOT-instant healthcare. And don't even ask me how much this'll cost me, WITH insurance.

Heck, watch any fucking US doctor show on TV, it's FULL of scenes where patients go "I've been waiting out there for hours!". You think they all filmed that in Canada or something?

Don't give me this "but but but waiting listttttt!" crap. It's a complete fabrication. Waiting for the doctor can always happen, no matter where you are. But ending up with thousands of dollars of medical debt for some common problem DOESN'T happen no matter where you are. In fact, out of all the advanced, first-world nations, it somehow ONLY seems to regularly happen in the US.

[Darkeon]

You know how long it takes to get a fucking dentist appointment or other mundane shit in the US? I need two teeth extracted, and just to get the CONSULT took 2 months. The actual extraction isn't for another 3. In fucking 'Murrica land of the apparently-somehow-NOT-instant healthcare. And don't even ask me how much this'll cost me, WITH insurance.

Heck, watch any fucking US doctor show on TV, it's FULL of scenes where patients go "I've been waiting out there for hours!". You think they all filmed that in Canada or something?

Don't give me this "but but but waiting listttttt!" crap. It's a complete fabrication. Waiting for the doctor can always happen, no matter where you are. But ending up with thousands of dollars of medical debt for some common problem DOESN'T happen no matter where you are. In fact, out of all the advanced, first-world nations, it somehow ONLY seems to regularly happen in the US.

He yells it's all a lie to someone who lives in it. topkek.

[Biomega]

He yells it's all a lie to someone who lives in it. topkek.

I've lived all across the world. In all sorts of healthcare systems. Waiting for the doctor happens, period. No matter where you are.

Don't paint this as though somehow Canadians or Europeans sit on their bursting appendix for 2 weeks while the government figures out who's next in line, and the US has a golden wheelchair waiting at your living room door to personally chauffeur you into the OR.

US healthcare is exorbitantly expensive, and that's in NO proportion to the quality of the care OR its speed.

[SinR]

when did this turn into a healthcare pissing match?

[rogoth]

I've lived all across the world. In all sorts of healthcare systems. Waiting for the doctor happens, period. No matter where you are.

Don't paint this as though somehow Canadians or Europeans sit on their bursting appendix for 2 weeks while the government figures out who's next in line, and the US has a golden wheelchair waiting at your living room door to personally chauffeur you into the OR.

US healthcare is exorbitantly expensive, and that's in NO proportion to the quality of the care OR its speed.

can you stop calling the American system 'healthcare' it's not at all, it's got nothing to do with 'care' whatsoever, it's designed entirely to milk money from people, it is the only 'for profit' medical system in the world, it is considered third world in almost every degree when compared with most first world countries around the globe, don't even get me started on the whole unregulated medicine portion of the business, it's disgusting, and anybody who tries to defend it needs to give their heads a wobble (not you but just saying in general).

as to the topic of the thread, blizzard have been consistently losing money as well as other things for years now, they have taken the entire play book of monetisation and applied everything possible in this 'game', in a desperate last ditch attempt to grab as much cash as possible and like every other American company, short term gains = everything, long term = not thought about at all, it's standard American capitalism which is utterly broken, but you won't see the people getting filthy rich off the backs of the many slaves stuck in low paid work in the states complaining about anything.

[qwerty123456]

Factually incorrect.

Blizzard's games success comes from millions of players who went through their games over the course of existence. There is a strength in numbers aside from direct money conversion. 10k whales won't make hundreds of thousands views for Blizzard's products - the mass is good in this business. This is why MAUs and "engagement" is so important - it's people who can very easily hop to another product in the portfolio.

There is a lot more to a business plan than just "find 10k whales and keep 'em".

Yeah Blizzard's success came from that. There's a reason games fail with a sub and yet make bank when they switch to f2p. It ain't a million people paying for a convivence sub in ESO that made it make cash it was the people buying nearly 200$ homes and spending fuckloads on crown crates. MAU's are used to entice more people to play so they can potentially get more payers.

Of course there is more to a business plan then just finding a group of whales and milking them dry. Companies want to make the most money they can. Thats why Mihoyo is making a space Genshin and a urban/punk genshin. They want to find more players that might want a different esthetic. And how Blizzard has return back to Wow events and shit. You seriously think the reason Blizzard created Diablo Immortal was to appeal to the masses and show appreciation to the fans they already had? No it was to make money and they didn't give a shit if the fans that gave them the success they already had got pissed off.

[shise]

I genuinely don´t think that anyone at all who´s ever played a Blizzard game in the past (talking about 10+years ago) would defend this game. It´s utter shit, and then it takes the predatory design a step forward too.

This is definitely not a good game, and neither does it have any values into it.

[Laerrus]

A fool and his money are easily parted.

I can think of far better things to spend $110,000 on. College for the kids. Down payment on a new mortgage. 2 to 3 new cars. Stocks and crypto. Hookers and blow.

[crusadernero]

A fool and his money are easily parted.

I can think of far better things to spend $110,000 on. College for the kids. Down payment on a new mortgage. 2 to 3 new cars. Stocks and crypto. Hookers and blow.

If you literally throw gasoline over 100k and set fire to it, it would be more well spendt than a dime in DI.

[Delekii]

Until the waiting list is too long or the service is so shitpoor that you end up going to a private hospital clinic anyways, paying premium for proper care.

Sincerely, someone that lives in of those countries with the miraculous socialized healthcare.

When you say you pay premium, you don't pay remotely close to what anyone pays in America.

[Elim Garak]

A fool and his money are easily parted.

I can think of far better things to spend $110,000 on. College for the kids. Down payment on a new mortgage. 2 to 3 new cars. Stocks and crypto. Hookers and blow.

...and a f2p game. Why stop at blow?

But guess what? Not everyone wants a new mortgage, new cars, hookers and blow. For some the blow is a f2p game. And the kids might already be in college. Or no kids at all.

People are so different and yet so self-absorbed.

[Darkeon]

When you say you pay premium, you don't pay remotely close to what anyone pays in America.

That's true. USA's healthcare is a prime example of predatory monetization. Which is so very fitting in this thread! haha