Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Elim Garak]

A fool and his money are easily parted.

I can think of far better things to spend $110,000 on. College for the kids. Down payment on a new mortgage. 2 to 3 new cars. Stocks and crypto. Hookers and blow.

...and a f2p game. Why stop at blow?

But guess what? Not everyone wants a new mortgage, new cars, hookers and blow. For some the blow is a f2p game. And the kids might already be in college. Or no kids at all.

People are so different and yet so self-absorbed.

[Darkeon]

When you say you pay premium, you don't pay remotely close to what anyone pays in America.

That's true. USA's healthcare is a prime example of predatory monetization. Which is so very fitting in this thread! haha

[Witchblade77]

Yeah Blizzard's success came from that. There's a reason games fail with a sub and yet make bank when they switch to f2p. It ain't a million people paying for a convivence sub in ESO that made it make cash it was the people buying nearly 200$ homes and spending fuckloads on crown crates. MAU's are used to entice more people to play so they can potentially get more payers.

Of course there is more to a business plan then just finding a group of whales and milking them dry. Companies want to make the most money they can. Thats why Mihoyo is making a space Genshin and a urban/punk genshin. They want to find more players that might want a different esthetic. And how Blizzard has return back to Wow events and shit. You seriously think the reason Blizzard created Diablo Immortal was to appeal to the masses and show appreciation to the fans they already had? No it was to make money and they didn't give a shit if the fans that gave them the success they already had got pissed off.

there is a very distinct difference though between those $200 dollar houses and crown crates and what Diablo immortal is doing. and that difference is - those houses and crap in crates? either either cosmetic or equivalent to in game crafted stuff (like pots and food) and you are neither capped on how much you can craft, nor is it particularly difficult to do. oh and you get crowns for every month of subscription. but in the end - its STILL cosmetic and you do NOT in any way, shape or form need to utilize cash shop EVER in order for your character to perform. you have in game gold houses to buy and one of the manors is even free/quest based.

in DI? if you want to be competitive? cash shop is a requirement. majority of stuff sold in the shop affects performance and advancement of your character directly. heck even if you don't want to be competitive and just want to play through solo stuff.... getting to those higher difficulties (as in being able to play through them with any degree of smoothness) is much harder if you are upgrading at a f2p pace.

[Darkeon]

in DI? if you want to be competitive? cash shop is a requirement.

Not gonna lie, was hilarious to see Bajheera do battlegrounds and, after a nice montage and all that, several proclamations of amazing fun... and, at the end of the video, a nice scoreboard of 7/7/2.

[xenogear3]

That's true. USA's healthcare is a prime example of predatory monetization. Which is so very fitting in this thread! haha

Except Healthcare is a must for everyone, DI is not.

There are many alternative for DI.
The close one is Diablo 2/3 and POE.

[Jerot]

...and a f2p game. Why stop at blow?

But guess what? Not everyone wants a new mortgage, new cars, hookers and blow. For some the blow is a f2p game. And the kids might already be in college. Or no kids at all.

People are so different and yet so self-absorbed.

Or you could give it to a F2P game that gives you actual value for your money.

Which is basically any of them compared to DI.

[Gaidax]

I've lived all across the world. In all sorts of healthcare systems. Waiting for the doctor happens, period. No matter where you are.

Don't paint this as though somehow Canadians or Europeans sit on their bursting appendix for 2 weeks while the government figures out who's next in line, and the US has a golden wheelchair waiting at your living room door to personally chauffeur you into the OR.

US healthcare is exorbitantly expensive, and that's in NO proportion to the quality of the care OR its speed.

I mean, locally we have this social healthcare and sizzle and you pay almost nothing aside from Healthcare tax, but the moment you need a specialist like dermatologist or orthopedics - you will pay like something funny like 5 bucks for a visit but you will wait for 1-3 months.

Or you can slap 100-200 bucks and get it literally tomorrow.

Now US is all kinds of fucked for sure, because you let corporations run the show and any prospective specialist needs to give out arm and leg to get the degree and qualification.

But European style healthcare has its own issues. Though thankfully you won't be ending up with thousands of dollars bills for just any mundane crap.

For example I had some mismatch between positioning of upper and lower jaw and it required surgery with titanium plates and all inside my mouth and 4 years of alignment with dozens of visits.

I paid a total or about 500 bucks for it and thats mostly imaging xrays because funnily of all things that was not covered. The rest was included in Healthcare provisions and covered by the state. The actual cost around ~35k USD.

[pahbi]

Except Healthcare is a must for everyone, DI is not.

There are many alternative for DI.
The close one is Diablo 2/3 and POE.

I dunno about POE

Strictly speaking its not pay to win, POE literally sells storage space in their game.

Ever notice how every expansion has a crap ton of bits of stuff you have to collect and organize and deal with, and then magically, POE is there to sell you specially organized storage spaces for it all for a price.

So yeah, POE is technically free to play, and its not pay to win, but I don't think your gonna get real far without buying storage space.

[McNeil]

Former Blizzard dev David Fried also had to call out its monetisation:

[Cthulhu 2020]

There's so much that's sad about this.

1. Wasted potential - They could have made this a great mobile game. Make legendary crests earnable in game. Make everything tied to player power be earnable only. I begrudgingly say that a cosmetic cash shop would be fine (even though in multi player games, part of the point is looking cool in front of everyone else, so in a way, looking cool is "winning").

2. Wasted reputation - People are going to be skeptical about all future Blizzard releases. They say that the Diablo IV cash shop is "designed around" cosmetics, but they never said that there wouldn't be player power in the cash shop. 5 years ago, I might have looked at that and said "Oh yeah, it'll only be cosmetics". But after "We won't sell gear in the shop" "Well legendary gems aren't GEAR!" and numerous other ways that Blizzard is trying to play coy with the wording of their statements, it's ruined their reputation for being honest. Everyone knows that Blizzard lies and breaks promises by using manipulative wording now. They've traded their reputation for cash.

3. Wasted time - Everyone who's played this game will be quitting soon. There's already huge player drop off going on right now. D:I will have the same problem that open world full loot PvP games have. People want them because they think they will be the lions and everyone else will be the sheep, when in reality there's always a bigger predator. Everyone thinks they'll be a PvP god until they get repeatedly stomped into the ground. Then they quit. There's always a bigger whale. PvP in D:I is a joke. Whales utterly demolish, and free to play players stand no chance. Even people who have spent a couple of thousand dollars on this game lose to the 10k+ whales with little effort. Once all of those players quit (and they will, nobody wants to lose to whales 8 hours a day) then PvP will die. The whales will have no one to show off to, and they too will eventually quit when there's no one else left.



I have to wonder why posters like @Elim Garak defend this garbage and go "You just hate it because you're poor". My counter is, "You only like it because you suck at video games". Video games for most people are an escape from reality, and shouldn't be a reminder that their life sucks. In video games, everyone is on equal footing and it is your skill and dedication that create satisfying gameplay. Pay to win games like D:I exist for people who are bad at video games and have a lot of money to burn.

[Dhrizzle]

I dunno about POE

Strictly speaking its not pay to win, POE literally sells storage space in their game.

Ever notice how every expansion has a crap ton of bits of stuff you have to collect and organize and deal with, and then magically, POE is there to sell you specially organized storage spaces for it all for a price.

So yeah, POE is technically free to play, and its not pay to win, but I don't think your gonna get real far without buying storage space.

I would love it if Blizz would sell me more stash space for Diablo 3 instead of expecting me to grind for it.

[Popastique]

3. Wasted time - Everyone who's played this game will be quitting soon. There's already huge player drop off going on right now. D:I will have the same problem that open world full loot PvP games have. People want them because they think they will be the lions and everyone else will be the sheep, when in reality there's always a bigger predator. Everyone thinks they'll be a PvP god until they get repeatedly stomped into the ground. Then they quit. There's always a bigger whale. PvP in D:I is a joke. Whales utterly demolish, and free to play players stand no chance. Even people who have spent a couple of thousand dollars on this game lose to the 10k+ whales with little effort. Once all of those players quit (and they will, nobody wants to lose to whales 8 hours a day) then PvP will die. The whales will have no one to show off to, and they too will eventually quit when there's no one else left.

Any info on that drop off? I mean numbers, statistics, proven by Blizzard or mobile stores?
And hey, you just described every other p2w mobile game with pvp modes that is still alive and releases new events, so ...

[chiddie]

I would love it if Blizz would sell me more stash space for Diablo 3 instead of expecting me to grind for it.

And also PLEASE stop comparing DI to full desktop games like PoE or Lost Ark.

One may think DI is crap and that’s perfectly legit but at least let’s compare it to other mobile MMOARPGS or ARPGS, not to desktop products.

Today someone linked me a video “why I quit DI” by a dude called Asmosomething and it’s one of the crappiest review I’ve ever seen in my entire life. This dude shouldn’t even be allowed to talk about videogames, he knows nothing.

[Dhrizzle]

And also PLEASE stop comparing DI to full desktop games like PoE or Lost Ark.

One may think DI is crap and that’s perfectly legit but at least let’s compare it to other mobile MMOARPGS or ARPGS, not to desktop products.

Today someone linked me a video “why I quit DI” by a dude called Asmosomething and it’s one of the crappiest review I’ve ever seen in my entire life. This dude shouldn’t even be allowed to talk about videogames, he knows nothing.

I wasn't. I'm really enjoying D:I as a free mobile game and happily defend it as such. It's Diablo 3 that I want to buy more stash slots for because I have piles of Legendary and Set crap that I can't organise properly, and can't be arsed grinding far enough in a season to earn one.

[Ghost of Cow]

The irony is “think for yourself” crowd seem to always be trying to say, “think like I do not like that!” Think like myself would be more adequate. My issue with all this is how people defend this blatant gambling skinner-box confusopoly. Some arguments I’ve seen, edited somewhat for comedic effect:

“People can spend their money how they wish” - yep, still doesn’t make D:I or the other shithole immoral crapfests any less terrible.

“But I’m having fun” - cool, stop dressing up that straw-man, gambling with bells and whistles is fun for a lot if people, not the argument though.

“This is no worse than other mobile games!” - doesn’t make it better or even good. They are rapacious as well, whataboutisms make for poor discourse hats.

“”Ha ha u just mad you don’t have the cash to spend on games like this” - sure don’t, still wouldn’t if I did. How is that relevant to Blizzard and specifically Cheng being a dishonest charlatan for saying gear wouldn’t be purchasable, instead TECHNICALLY selling player power through not-gear.

“It’s a good game, you’d have to buy it instead and this way you get it for free!” - no, that would be a game kickstarted and then given away on steam or such for free. I would rather pay 19.99 for a complete experience, paying nothing for a rancid husk of a game is… fucking wasteful.

“Lmao blizz making money hand over fist” - the big corporation can defend themselves darling, they won’t send you an autographed cum-sock for your duty of protecting then on a forum.

“Just have more self control 5head” - some people just don’t, instead of chastising them instead look at how to help people. I understand it’s hard to think outwardly to humans unless they are soulless mega-corps but give it a red hot go mates.

“Tl:dr lmao” - too bad, reading is good for you.Gambling bad, it is regulated for good reasons, smoking is bad, also regulated. If they want uncapped earning potential, the companies involved in these profane shell-games should also be required to make sure people don’t overspend, have fixed pay-limits, ensure a duty of care to their customers and ensure they aren’t spending outside their means, much like problem gamblers do.

Glad I haven’t spent a cent on actiblizz for years, what an absolute stain on what was once a titan of gaming. But it’s okay, at least they have plenty of breastmilk on hand.

Ok, but being mad about all those things isn't any better. You're just raging to rage about something, and you're sure as hell not out there protecting some strangers you imagined up that are gambling addicts playing D:I so stop trying to play the moral crusader nonsense.

D:I isn't a bogeyman out to get you. It's a video game, it'll come, it'll go, it'll be lost on the pile of all the rest before you know it. So go play it and have fun, or don't, it's all the same in the end. Raging about it just sounds petty and childish.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Former Blizzard dev David Fried also had to call out its monetisation:

Probably not the best source to link. Fried has a controversial history, both at Blizzard and some commentary that caused him to fight with the lore community (i.e.: comparing the Warcraft 3 Plague of Undeath to COVID-19), and he's currently working on an NFT card game which will undoubtedly be a scam, as NFT games are wont to do.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, apparently there are a bunch of Undocumented Hard and Soft Caps in D:I if you're F2P. Neat.

[uuuhname]

"you're just raging to rage about something, anything"

he says, seemingly completely unaware of what the topic of the thread is.

[pahbi]

I would love it if Blizz would sell me more stash space for Diablo 3 instead of expecting me to grind for it.

I know right?

Or at least make the grind easier... Every season I look at the requirements to get a new tab and just go, 'pffft nope'

[Cthulhu 2020]

Any info on that drop off? I mean numbers, statistics, proven by Blizzard or mobile stores?
And hey, you just described every other p2w mobile game with pvp modes that is still alive and releases new events, so ...

"PROOF, PROOF, PROOF!!!!! ONLY ACCEPTING OFFICIAL BLIZZARD NUMBERS!"

One only needs to look at the masses of "quitting" posts from reddit and twitter, as well as interest dwindling on google trends. It's like New World too. People hit the exp wall, or the gear wall (yes, there is a gear wall) and get bored and quit. The only thing to do at end game is endlessly grind rifts. And once you have your 4 set you can't even get your 6 set bonus until 2 months later at paragon 150. As a free player, there is nothing to do once you complete the main game. There is no retention device for free players, at least not good retention devices. Sorry, paragon levels just don't do it for most people.

- - - Updated - - -

Also it appears that D:I has the "New World" problem where you can mass report someone to get them banned and when you try to recover your account due to fraudulent reporting, you get an automated message that may as well say "fuck you".

https://www.reddit.com/r/DiabloImmor...omated_system/

Long story short, someone in my server accused me of hacking and was upset that I was such a higher paragon than them and messaged me saying they were having their stream mass report me. 2 days later I log in and I can't chat with anyone or form any kind of party. I submit a ticket to Blizzard about this with the pictures of them messaging me saying exactly what they were doing and I get what I believe is another automated response saying they would not reverse the action.

TLDR; If you want to get rid of someone in the game, just have your clan report them. According to Blizz, enough unique reports results in a ban through the automated system regardless if there is any merit to the complaints or not.

Every time you hear bad news about Diablo Immortal, you think they've hit rock bottom. And then you find out it goes even lower.

[Ghost of Cow]

I think you're right, which is why I think I'm going to be focusing on Indie games from now on. Triple A and mobile land feels like a dead battle at this point

This is unironically a very good idea.

Not just "indie" but even just branching out a little. So many people here speak as if Blizzard is the only place in the world they can get their games and it's weird. Like 60% of this entire thread is predicated on the belief that there's just nowhere else to go, or that Blizz somehow controls everything else.