1. #2341
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    To be honest, the PvP really does feel like a way to PROVE to the whales that their $25,000 purchase really has made them leagues ahead of the F2P players - like justification of their spend. Which is a bit of a shame, because it does kind of look like it could be fun, if some barbar whale didnt just WW through the whole team killing everyone in 2 shots. lol.
    I think this is one aspect people are pissed about as well. D3 was trying to put PvP into the game, and people were pretty hyped to try it.
    The fact that Immortal is the first Diablo game with PvP just kinda adds insult to injury.

  2. #2342
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    I think this is one aspect people are pissed about as well. D3 was trying to put PvP into the game, and people were pretty hyped to try it.
    The fact that Immortal is the first Diablo game with PvP just kinda adds insult to injury.
    D2 had PvP, D:I is not the first.

    It does, however, pay a lot more attention to it - that's for sure.

    It's the basis for why I say that as far as a game itself goes - D:I is pretty good. Simply because it has so many game modes and they are done pretty well.

    If not the MTX, it would be a great game.
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  3. #2343
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    D2 had PvP, D:I is not the first.

    It does, however, pay a lot more attention to it - that's for sure.

    It's the basis for why I say that as far as a game itself goes - D:I is pretty good. Simply because it has so many game modes and they are done pretty well.

    If not the MTX, it would be a great game.
    IMO, it would be a great MOBILE game, and a below average pc game. It does have some cool ideas, i like the visual style, although obviously heavily restricted due to mobile client. Some cool abilities, but honestly, thats about it.
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  4. #2344
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    IMO, it would be a great MOBILE game, and a below average pc game. It does have some cool ideas, i like the visual style, although obviously heavily restricted due to mobile client. Some cool abilities, but honestly, thats about it.
    The only 2 things it's worse than D3 is story and graphics.

    Of course being mobile they could not crank up 2k22 graphics balls to the wall and the story suffers because it's a seq-prequel some sort of in-between thing.

    You could argue it could use more skills too, but it's a mobile limitation again.

    However - as far as things to do ingame? It has times more than D3 has nowadays 10 years forward. If D3 would have all that now - they'd probably not even need D:I.
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  5. #2345
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    D2 had PvP, D:I is not the first.

    It does, however, pay a lot more attention to it - that's for sure.

    It's the basis for why I say that as far as a game itself goes - D:I is pretty good. Simply because it has so many game modes and they are done pretty well.

    If not the MTX, it would be a great game.
    if not for mtx nobody would pay 40-50 euro for it on mobile to buy it. so out of 2 evils i prefer mtx which i will spend exackly 0 euro on and play it for free

  6. #2346
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Laws are irrelevant to what gambling is.
    I nose-exhaled more than a little, ngl.

    Well done, Dictionary Man.

  7. #2347
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    if not for mtx nobody would pay 40-50 euro for it on mobile to buy it. so out of 2 evils i prefer mtx which i will spend exackly 0 euro on and play it for free
    Never heard of a P2P mobile game costing that much. I think the sweet spot for most developers tops out around $14.99 USD for mobile

    But nonetheless, that's kind of the MO of the mobile genre. F2P with engagement hooks that strongly encourage MTX at low price points but that can add quickly. Deceptive ploys to make consumers balk at at $20 price point but freely spend it without much thought on smaller transactions.

  8. #2348
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    if not for mtx nobody would pay 40-50 euro for it on mobile to buy it. so out of 2 evils i prefer mtx which i will spend exackly 0 euro on and play it for free
    Again you with your black or white. It's not a zero sum game - it can be F2P and not have cancerous MTX that shits on community. Cosmetics and even convenience MTX could have carried the game easily.

    Plenty games like that or almost like that.
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  9. #2349
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    Why even play this game free to play? I already played Diablo 3 a decade ago

    Besides all the convoluted systems that make you want to swipe your credit card, this is a stripped down Diablo 3 experience. Which obviously makes me very excited for Diablo 4 yea not really

    OH it has PvP which is basically a place to entertain whales and to make the plankton, I mean, the other players frustrated so that they can start morphing into whales of their own
    The gameplay is really fun, there is plenty of activities and routes for upgrades to keep you busy and the story drops a few nostalgia-bombs and cool lore moments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    You could argue it could use more skills too, but it's a mobile limitation again.
    I'm not sure the issue is just being a mobile game, I think they kept it simplified for wider appeal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    I'm talking about the gambling, not the laws about it. Laws are irrelevant to what gambling is.
    Laws are pretty damn important in determining what gambling is. That's why we have things that are classed as gambling in Belgium but not in other place.

  10. #2350
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Explain PoE then.
    What about POE? Explain yourself. It has heavy mtx and ppl play what they want, pay what they want. End of story. Period. So what's your point?

    Seriously, that's all you got? You just proved my point in a 3 word sentence.
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  11. #2351
    Quote Originally Posted by Unseen Guest View Post
    What about POE? Explain yourself. It has heavy mtx and ppl play what they want, pay what they want. End of story. Period. So what's your point?

    Seriously, that's all you got? You just proved my point in a 3 word sentence.
    Sure, i can help explain it for you. PoE is a shining example of how to do MTX in game correctly - im well aware some will still cry about price, or say its not fair that the "cool looking" cosmetics are all mtx, with in game gear looking shit, but the game is a genuine F2P title. No, its not on mobile, however a F2P player can experience literally every single part of the game, at the same level, with the same gear and augments as a player who chooses to invest money. One could argue that the higher inventory allows a paid player to farm more efficiently, but its not player power. You cannot buy your way to the top of the leader-boards, its all down to the player.

    Hope that clears things up. Like i said, its not on mobile, but a comparison for people playing DI on pc, and an example of how MTX can be done in a game without limiting a f2p players ability to compete on an even playing-field with paid players, all while still making a tidy profit for the publisher/devs. No, i dont know the exact numbers, but the fact they are churning out more and more content for the game after all these years is a very strong indicator things are going well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    if not for mtx nobody would pay 40-50 euro for it on mobile to buy it.
    Where did you come up with that number? What makes you think that would be the price?
    Last edited by arkanon; 2022-06-17 at 10:45 PM.
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  12. #2352
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    if not for mtx nobody would pay 40-50 euro for it on mobile to buy it. so out of 2 evils i prefer mtx which i will spend exackly 0 euro on and play it for free
    No one wants to play games on mobile except for china and plebs anyways.

    I'd rather have a 1 time purchase and unlimited potential versus no purchase and virtually no chance at getting what I really want out of the game (to complete it and also complete my character).

  13. #2353
    Heres an interesting question - Blizzard have done different payment models for different versions of the same game.....so question is, would you support DI being purchasable on PC - with cosmetic ONLY purchases in game, while leaving the mobile version as is. Would that change anything for anyone? To be clear, no, i dont think they actually would do that, but its just a question.
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  14. #2354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    Believing something in 2022 on the Internet without anything backing up those words or claims? Of course not
    People will make shit up, especially when this DI stuff is trending, just to get some attention. People love attention, most of them

    And what are these content walls you are speaking of? This is the first time i've heard smthing like that, got me intrigued.
    As I said, give zero shits if you believe me. You're a random nobody on the internet. It's real and it's happening. Plenty of people believe political lies because they want to, because they're invested in that ideology. If you're in love with the game, nothing is going to convince you there's anything bad in it, lol.

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    Here is one thing I genuinely just do not understand, but also do understand.


    Why do people automatically assume that if a game is on mobile, it must make its money through pay to win mechanics?

    "Oh well it's on mobile so it's gonna be pay to win!"

    In the early days of smart phones in the west, the games were largely just you buy the game, and you play it. There were all kinds of side scrolling zombie games, peggle, angry birds and whatnot. You buy the game and it's yours. No aggressive monetization.

    In China, they invented social credit scores because of human behavior. They have human behavior on lock down. They know how people work. They know how to manipulate people. Companies used this psychology to create games that had aggressive and predatory monetization, targeting the few rich people in those countries. Rather than making quality games, they went for monetization.

    During the 2010's, this model of mobile game was heavily rejected by western audiences. You go back 10 years on these forums and pay to win was universally considered a terrible game, period.



    That's the most insidious part of all of this. You think you're in control, when you're not. You know how they say the best way to manipulate someone into doing something, is to make them think it's their idea? You get someone to do something that YOU want them to do, but does not necessarily benefit them, but you convince them they want to do it, and if you're REALLY good you can convince them it was their idea. The person being duped thinks they're in control the entire time they're being duped.

    People saying "Well it's mobile so it's gonna be pay to win, duh," you guys have been duped. Mobile games exist where you can buy them and just play. They're rare now that eastern monetization has been normalized in the west, but they exist. So why do you guys just simply accept aggressive and predatory monetization as something that's "okay"? Because you've been conditioned, and that stance you used to have against pay to win has been slowly eroded away by years of normalization of the model.

    You are not in control.
    Last edited by Cthulhu 2020; 2022-06-18 at 02:35 AM.
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  15. #2355
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Heres an interesting question - Blizzard have done different payment models for different versions of the same game.....so question is, would you support DI being purchasable on PC - with cosmetic ONLY purchases in game, while leaving the mobile version as is. Would that change anything for anyone? To be clear, no, i dont think they actually would do that, but its just a question.
    I'd support it a whole lot more than F2P with MTX reminders being shoved down my throat like its Prom Night
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  16. #2356
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Heres an interesting question - Blizzard have done different payment models for different versions of the same game.....so question is, would you support DI being purchasable on PC - with cosmetic ONLY purchases in game, while leaving the mobile version as is. Would that change anything for anyone? To be clear, no, i dont think they actually would do that, but its just a question.
    I'd rather they changed both and yes I might actualy just buy the paid version especially if they continue to develop it and fix up a few things here and there so its a bit less of a D3 reskin

    but that also reminds me of the game I used to play for a bit years ago (my avatar is actualy one of my characters from it)

    Allods. it was a pc game but it was very. VERY pay to win. like... you would literally not be able to progress through pve, let alone pvp game after a certain point unless you bought stuff from cash shop but people didn't quite realize the extent of it until something interesting happened. the game had a lot of cool stuff going for it, so eventually company decided to create 2 different types of servers. the f2p one would stay as is, with MTX out the ass. and then there was a subscription server which would have no cash shop and you had to earn everything through gameplay only. except... they forgot to rebalance it initially and its at that point people realize the extent of how p2w that game was. because without those cash shop things, they could not progress. as far as I know it got rebalanced for subscription server at least, but... its just something I was reminded of after your suggestion.

    P.S. speaking of issues on pc. there is this thing you get to do once a day if you are with shadows. assembly - where you share buffs. and that shit is so broken on pc. at first I thought I was doing something wrong, because I couldn't share buffs, I couldn't do much but hope someone shared with me and grab the rewards. but then I decided to try assembly on my phone, since there is no combat so shouldn't be too bad. it was like night and day. icons and sharing buffs... actualy WORKED. I didn't feel like a jerk who only takes and doesn't share anymore. and you'd think they would consider these things, but the port is so damn half asses for pc.... anything that was already in d3 works fine. anything new added for DI? (other then cash shop) is varying degrees of borked :/

  17. #2357
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    I'd support it a whole lot more than F2P with MTX reminders being shoved down my throat like its Prom Night
    HAHA, yeah its a bit much tbf. I guess what im trying to discover is, is it ONLY the monetization that concerns people? I ask because to me, the game is fine for a mobile game, but if it was pc only, i wouldnt pay a lot for it, certainly not AAA full price. Why would I when i can just play D3 which is essentially a VERY similar game, in fact i have read that the 'rifts' are literally ripped straight from D3, but I havent looked into that.

    I guess part 2 to the question is, what would you personally pay, in USD for consistency sake, for a power free shop version of DI on pc?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    I'd rather they changed both and yes I might actualy just buy the paid version especially if they continue to develop it and fix up a few things here and there so its a bit less of a D3 reskin

    but that also reminds me of the game I used to play for a bit years ago (my avatar is actualy one of my characters from it)

    Allods. it was a pc game but it was very. VERY pay to win. like... you would literally not be able to progress through pve, let alone pvp game after a certain point unless you bought stuff from cash shop but people didn't quite realize the extent of it until something interesting happened. the game had a lot of cool stuff going for it, so eventually company decided to create 2 different types of servers. the f2p one would stay as is, with MTX out the ass. and then there was a subscription server which would have no cash shop and you had to earn everything through gameplay only. except... they forgot to rebalance it initially and its at that point people realize the extent of how p2w that game was. because without those cash shop things, they could not progress. as far as I know it got rebalanced for subscription server at least, but... its just something I was reminded of after your suggestion.

    P.S. speaking of issues on pc. there is this thing you get to do once a day if you are with shadows. assembly - where you share buffs. and that shit is so broken on pc. at first I thought I was doing something wrong, because I couldn't share buffs, I couldn't do much but hope someone shared with me and grab the rewards. but then I decided to try assembly on my phone, since there is no combat so shouldn't be too bad. it was like night and day. icons and sharing buffs... actualy WORKED. I didn't feel like a jerk who only takes and doesn't share anymore. and you'd think they would consider these things, but the port is so damn half asses for pc.... anything that was already in d3 works fine. anything new added for DI? (other then cash shop) is varying degrees of borked :/
    Yeah TBH i seriously considered the sub model as an option, but it would need to be substantially lower than the wow sub, a joint sub of some kind, or in the future when microsoft take over, included in gamepass. Again, i dont see this EVER happening, it was purely for conversation.
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  18. #2358
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    HAHA, yeah its a bit much tbf. I guess what im trying to discover is, is it ONLY the monetization that concerns people? I ask because to me, the game is fine for a mobile game, but if it was pc only, i wouldnt pay a lot for it, certainly not AAA full price. Why would I when i can just play D3 which is essentially a VERY similar game, in fact i have read that the 'rifts' are literally ripped straight from D3, but I havent looked into that.

    I guess part 2 to the question is, what would you personally pay, in USD for consistency sake, for a power free shop version of DI on pc?
    If they got rid of most or all of the monetization, it probably would have been a halfway decent $30-$40 Diablo game, especially considering that development time for character progression might have actually gone into a cool new system, rather than just recycling D3 rifts and turning them into a paid gacha box.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  19. #2359
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    HAHA, yeah its a bit much tbf. I guess what im trying to discover is, is it ONLY the monetization that concerns people? I ask because to me, the game is fine for a mobile game, but if it was pc only, i wouldnt pay a lot for it, certainly not AAA full price. Why would I when i can just play D3 which is essentially a VERY similar game, in fact i have read that the 'rifts' are literally ripped straight from D3, but I havent looked into that.

    I guess part 2 to the question is, what would you personally pay, in USD for consistency sake, for a power free shop version of DI on pc?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah TBH i seriously considered the sub model as an option, but it would need to be substantially lower than the wow sub, a joint sub of some kind, or in the future when microsoft take over, included in gamepass. Again, i dont see this EVER happening, it was purely for conversation.
    I mean... there is already a sort of sub thingie in game right now. its just... not worth the money in its current state (boon of plenty). but... I agree in that I dont think they are going to rework it either. why, when people seem to be willing to frontload so much more.... >_>

  20. #2360
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    I mean... there is already a sort of sub thingie in game right now. its just... not worth the money in its current state (boon of plenty). but... I agree in that I dont think they are going to rework it either. why, when people seem to be willing to frontload so much more.... >_>
    This is one of those issues where if you choose to devide it into two teams/sides - devs and players, BOTH are to blame. As usual, not ALL people on either team are to blame - the kid doing code for DI isnt the problem, and neither imo is the kid who bought the $0.99 pack at the beginning. But, if you choose to create a us Vs them situation, BOTH sides are to blame. Its basic supply and demand. They have only designed the game this way because they KNOW, without a doubt, many people will throw literally tens of thousands of dollars at the game.

    Using a AAA $60 purchase price, 1 medium whale = TWO HUNDRED regular players. What im saying is, at $60 it would take 200 purchases to match what they have received from that one whale spending over $10k in DI. There are MANY whales on social media, forums, and youtube showing their spend and it is not as rare as i thought it would be to spend $10k - $15k. Yes, there are extreme examples up to and exceeding $100k, but i believe (and hope) they are the tiniest of minorities.

    To be clear, im AGREEING with you, that they can make this much money in a month, why would they bother with a sub or box price? And THAT is the issue - the demand appears to be extremely high. I see no future where gamers' can unite and band together, refusing to pay, so the only option is regulation.
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