Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Beefhammer]

well I just played it thought it was quite fun actually, but didnt want to play too much because its open beta... I dont want to replay the same again, will wait for launch. assuming its free, i will play this for sure

There is no progress wipe. This is more of a test of the PC client to work out kinks.

[mrgreenthump]

What's the difference in power from playing normal and waiting 80 years?

Am not sure, but it's close to 300% life and damage as whaling out is 460% afaik, although am not sure if awekening is counted on that which is another multiplier on top of that and awekening is completely paywalled.

[Tonkaden]

No, I'm not ignoring your point.

You originally said, and I quote, "ITT hordes of paypigs that have nothing better do do with their miserable lives than defending a company that actively profits from introducing kids to potentially adicting softcore gambling."

Nothing about this game is for introducing kids to gambling, because its not intended for kids. So it's weird to insult people just because they like the game and then criticize it for something it's not. Last I checked, its on parents to ensure their kids don't go on porn sites or play games they're not supposed to.

Just because someone enjoys the game despite flaws doesn't give you the right to ridicule them, and the attempt at a moral high ground in doing so what I'm pointing out is flawed.

Not even worth arguing with him. They are worse than Amber Heard supporters lol.

[Daymanmb]

Blink twice if you are in trouble

I need you to know, I lol'd hard at this!

[Rad1um]

This is utopia because the free players are there to be the punchbags for the whales. Free players are the whales' content. It's the only way it can work. Nothing is "free". If you play for free - you get played. You are the product.

Sure, but how is us being the product at that point any different that it is now? We are paying and im absolutely sure they're still aggregating data. At least with this system implemented, the playerbase could discern from p2w and the grind.

However, yea, perhaps it is idealistic, but it would be kinda nice.

[DStrukt]

This is its launch it being "open beta" is just PR word use. There will be no progress wipes or anything of the sort.

well I just played it thought it was quite fun actually, but didnt want to play too much because its open beta... I dont want to replay the same again, will wait for launch. assuming its free, i will play this for sure

OH.. Brill! Then I will continue :-D

[Zoibert the Bear]

No, I'm not ignoring your point.

You originally said, and I quote, "ITT hordes of paypigs that have nothing better do do with their miserable lives than defending a company that actively profits from introducing kids to potentially adicting softcore gambling."

I did, I generalized. It's gaming in general that is fucking off into a monetization strategy that I despise. I still think it's a scumy move by Blizzard, but I will say this about any company that does it.

Nothing about this game is for introducing kids to gambling, because its not intended for kids. So it's weird to insult people just because they like the game and then criticize it for something it's not. Last I checked, its on parents to ensure their kids don't go on porn sites or play games they're not supposed to.

Chances are some will be introduced to it though. Cocaine used to be legal, a lot of other products and banned practices used to be perfectly ok in the past, but they were harmful and so legislation happened. I think this shit is downright making gaming worse, at the cost of those with low self control in part.

Just because someone enjoys the game despite flawsdoesn't give you the right to ridicule them, and the attempt at a moral high ground in doing so what I'm pointing out is flawed.

I'm not referring to those, I'm talking to those who don't think of it as a flaw at all. Anyone here saying "hey b-b-but it's a m-mobile game they all do it!" or anything along those lines... I just think very low of them, so I will ridicule them, of course I will.

Just wanted to point out I am not coming at you thinking I'm on some moral high ground. I do this selfishly because I like Diablo and I don't think this is good for the Diablo franchise.

[Veggie50]

Because of this thread I decided to check it out (completely forgot about it) but it appears I cannot. I live in the Netherlands, and we've had enough wisdom to declare lootboxes illegal xD so it was pulled from Dutch app stores.

[Zoibert the Bear]

If you are not monitoring what your children do and the content they consume you are a shitty parent period, no defending shitty parenting practices because parents are too lazy to properly engage with their crotch goblins. Don't want to do the work then don't have them.

We don't disagree, shitty parents will always be shitty parents. A fucking casino will not let a minor in though (I guess this will depend on the country though), they'll make sure of it because they know they can get fucked in the ass by the authorities.

[rhorle]

Both of the things above cause real, tangible harm to young people. If you think otherwise, that's fine.

Anything can cause real tangible harm to young people though. Should everything be regulated and young people live in some sheltered bubble until their respective countries age of adult hood? I'm curious if you think Pokemon cards should be banned as well? They are a real life loot box and kids even more a target audience then in gaming where age-restriction guidance exists.

Heck even Steam should be regulated since they have loot boxes and other cosmetics as a digital store front. Kids will be exposed as it is a major distributor of digital games.

[Dhrizzle]

This is utopia because the free players are there to be the punchbags for the whales. Free players are the whales' content. It's the only way it can work. Nothing is "free". If you play for free - you get played. You are the product.

Is there PvP involved? If people can't come busting in to my part of the game to spoil my experience then I don't see the issue.

[Elim Garak]

Sure, but how is us being the product at that point any different that it is now? We are paying and im absolutely sure they're still aggregating data. At least with this system implemented, the playerbase could discern from p2w and the grind.

However, yea, perhaps it is idealistic, but it would be kinda nice.

The problem is if you segregate whales into their own melting pot - they will leave. They need the free-players to be better than. To pwn, own, etc. So they must dominate the same leaderboard. They will still compete with each other - but with free players at the bottom - every last one of the whales will be the winner. Top 100, 1000, 10000, whatever the population will be.

And since whales are the source of revenue in a f2p game - the suggestion you are pushing will kill the game. For everyone.

[xenogear3]

There is no progress wipe. This is more of a test of the PC client to work out kinks.

Are you sure?
I just spent $14000 and expect to get a full refund when the beta is over.

Joke aside, it uses Gacha games' formula.
The screen is full with annoying red dots and ask you to click here and there.

[rhorle]

Is there PvP involved? If people can't come busting in to my part of the game to spoil my experience then I don't see the issue.

The have a battleground that is defend/capture and the Cycle of Strife where you'll face players in a few different places. So the advantage from paying can be an issue in those few modes.

[Dhrizzle]

Am not sure, but it's close to 300% life and damage as whaling out is 460% afaik, although am not sure if awekening is counted on that which is another multiplier on top of that and awekening is completely paywalled.

That's some hefty bonuses. Either the game is unplayable for free or it is ridiculously easy if you pay to skip the 80 year (really 80 years?!) grind. Either way it amounts to a crap game so I'd be unwilling to spend anything on it.

[Jerot]

Anything can cause real tangible harm to young people though. Should everything be regulated and young people live in some sheltered bubble until their respective countries age of adult hood? I'm curious if you think Pokemon cards should be banned as well? They are a real life loot box and kids even more a target audience then in gaming where age-restriction guidance exists.

Heck even Steam should be regulated since they have loot boxes and other cosmetics as a digital store front. Kids will be exposed as it is a major distributor of digital games.

I don't know if there should be legislation against Diablo Immortal specifically, but it's definitely the laziest form of monetization and a horrible value for players. Cosmetics are one thing. Making a game that is all about collecting loot give you more loot for paying... really? And pay to win in a game with PVP elements and leaderboards isn't something widely accepted outside of the Chinese market.

Losing out on something you paid for because you missed logging in for 1 day is also pretty scummy, there is no reason behind it other than to drive playtime/activity statistics for shareholders.

You can enjoy the game for what it is, diablo you can play on the bus or in the bathroom, but defending the monetization is foolish. It's objectively awful. They are shaving off rewards you should get from playing the game to hold hostage for money. They don't respect the player's time or money and they deserve neither.

Pokemon cards are physical collectible objects, they have value outside of the game and continue to exist even if they stop producing new pokemon cards. You can play the game with proxies, and if you really want something you don't have to gamble for it, there is a secondary market and you can purchase or trade for them directly.

Steam is a bad example, frankly it should be regulated as it opened up the door for illegal underaged gambling websites through bot trading. And I say this as a former trader with several grand still sitting in steam inventory.

People are tricked into buying lockboxes with the expectation of getting more money back. Just look at CSGO and the Dragon Lore, people know its worth $$$. They see statistics showing Covert/Red tier items are roughly 1/125 boxes and figure they can buy cobblestone cases and make a huge profit. Not realizing there are additional tiers in the case bumping the odds to 1 in 3,125. Still they pay 25x too much for a case with no real chance of getting what they want because the odds are obscured. And valve takes a cut from each of those transactions.

Technically you aren't supposed to be able to trade back for real money, all the items and wallet funds are locked to valves platform. But they don't do nearly enough to crack down on sites that let you cash out, or gamble.

[Zoibert the Bear]

Anything can cause real tangible harm to young people though. Should everything be regulated and young people live in some sheltered bubble until their respective countries age of adult hood? I'm curious if you think Pokemon cards should be banned as well? They are a real life loot box and kids even more a target audience then in gaming where age-restriction guidance exists.

Heck even Steam should be regulated since they have loot boxes and other cosmetics as a digital store front. Kids will be exposed as it is a major distributor of digital games.

I think this is way worse than say, Pokemon/Magic and such, for once, I think that getting into the game, and then reaching a frustrating "wall" that is put there just to incentivise you to use money, and then having an RNG component on top of it is a lot more subtle and effective. Companies have been honing (poor choice of word) the way in which they get to to waste money, card packs have been quite consistent, there are definitely some parallels though.

It also incensivises the game devs to not put the best items, or best looking gear into games, or artificially inflate difficulty or time investment just to make people want to skip it via money.

I'm not saying that anything that is random is bad, but there should be a limit, and consequences. As far as we cope with it, companies will keep doing it, I just hate seeing people defend it when they really are not getting anything positive out of it, and it has very real chances at negatives in the long run.

[rhorle]

It also incensivises the game devs to not put the best items, or best looking gear into games, or artificially inflate difficulty or time investment just to make people want to skip it via money.

Do we know that is always the case though? Was the grind made worse just to incentivize spending or was the grind always the same but is perceived worse because you can pay to skip it? Best looking is also highly subjective. Just like you hand wave the gambling and "loot boxes" of real life collectibles for various reasons valid or not. It is strange how every hates on digital methods of these concepts while also making excuses for why physical methods are not equally a problem.

I've played Pokemon go with only spending around $20 in the nearly six years it has been around. I've gotten plenty of positives out of with out any negatives in short or long run. If a person is going to go over board spending in DI then they likely would in something else. What you keep trying to pin on video games is in fact a problem with the individual and control. Do people need to be protected from themselves? Sure to some degree. But lets stop blaming video games when going that route.

[Zuben]

We all knew what Immortal was going to be since the announcement we collectively boo'd at. I don't care what they do with this one, I'm more afraid for when they're implementing it on their more legit products.

[aarro]

One of the things I found quite funny when trying it was when I cleared a dungeon for the first time my REWARD is a discount bundle in the shop. My reward for clearing a dungeon is the opportunity to spend money. Oh but at a discount, ya know cus they want you to be used to spending money early. Even if it's just a little. Get that taste.

From what I briefly saw of the game and the videos I have seen of others playing Blizzard has doubled down on every predatory, disgusting behaviour that P2W games have. The mental tricks of luring people in with rewards, dailies, small free tastes of what it'd be play to spend money, cheap 1-time only bundles to get you into spending just a little to get the ball rolling, every penny spent is some form of gambling mechanic to get those gambling addicts hooked etc. etc... Every mechanic in the game, every prompt, every action is designed with trying to get the player to spend money ahead of anything else.

Diablo Immortal is everything bad about current-gen games, games whos mechanics are more focused on mental warefare with the player to make as much money as possible and it saddens me than the company and game at the forefront of all these disgusting behavours is both the company and game series that I once loved.

I understand companies exist to make money, but that doesn't excuse disgusting behaviour and these predatory mechanics are exactly that. I just want game companies to be about making good games again. People should spend money on your game because your game is good and they want to support it, not because they was coaxed into spending it.

New to mobile gaming I see....

As for the title of the thread - Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen, Mobile games aren't even in the same bracket as normal games so it's a bit silly to say that tbh.