Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[korijenkins]

"Good for them"

While the industry goes down the drain pipe?

No thanks.

Free market capitalists love the idea of others making money at their expense, don't chastise him!

[RobertoCarlos]

Free market capitalists love the idea of others making money at their expense, don't chastise him!

That money trickles down right?

All those whales being exploited means we get even more content and games right?

It doesnt just go to shareholders and top executives pockets in bonuses!!! that would be crazy!

[Nymrohd]

That money trickles down right?

All those whales being exploited means we get even more content and games right?

It doesnt just go to shareholders and top executives pockets in bonuses!!! that would be crazy!

I mean, the f2p games would not exist if not for the whales. Other games may well exist in their place (potentially better games).

[Dhrizzle]

The problem arises when I like said entertainment and I cant go any further other than throwing LUDICROUS amounts of money at it because its designed that way BECAUSE its free to play. Id rather pay a flat out price or a sub to gain access to unlimited content and not be gated by casino slots. Ya feel me

Because diablo is easily one of the my favouite IP's of all time and i want to still be semi optimistic for d4 I guess even though everything points to it being a shit show.

How many hours do you reckon you've played so far? I'm guessing you've finished the campaign, completed grinding the sets for a couple of builds, maxed out the lower level gems and hit paragon 30ish?

As you've done all that for free doesn't it seem worthwhile to drop a few quid on on of the bundles, or just quit now and enjoy that you have had an awesome time for free?

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That money trickles down right?

All those whales being exploited means we get even more content and games right?

It doesnt just go to shareholders and top executives pockets in bonuses!!! that would be crazy!

I think you're trying to be sarcastic but I've had many, many hours of free entertainment because other players have foot the bill.

[Elim Garak]

Free market capitalists love the idea of others making money at their expense, don't chastise him!

Making money at someone else's expense is literally stealing or slavery. While capitalism is about trade and exchange of services for money.
You get fun for money out of games.

[Nymrohd]

How many hours do you reckon you've played so far? I'm guessing you've finished the campaign, completed grinding the sets for a couple of builds, maxed out the lower level gems and hit paragon 30ish?

As you've done all that for free doesn't it seem worthwhile to drop a few quid on on of the bundles, or just quit now and enjoy that you have had an awesome time for free?

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I think you're trying to be sarcastic but I've had many, many hours of free entertainment because other players have foot the bill.

I mean you cannot have possibly completed the sets for any builds since set rings only drop at Hell IV.

[RobertoCarlos]

I mean, the f2p games would not exist if not for the whales. Other games may well exist in their place (potentially better games).

100% we would have better games if they didnt spend said time focusing on practices that get their games banned in certain countries and were promoted as "free to play" when "free to play" means " a level we deem appropriate for free to play before we gate you"

[Nymrohd]

100% we would have better games if they didnt spend said time focusing on practices that get their games banned in certain countries and were promoted as "free to play" when "free to play" means " a level we deem appropriate for free to play before we gate you"

See I've played a lot of DI in the last couple of weeks and I have not really felt gated. The only time I ever felt at a disadvantage was yesterday because the Cycle reset and all the whales were back at Bronze 5 climbing their BG ranks. Everywhere else I've managed to keep up. The only real gate is CR.

[RobertoCarlos]

See I've played a lot of DI in the last couple of weeks and I have not really felt gated. The only time I ever felt at a disadvantage was yesterday because the Cycle reset and all the whales were back at Bronze 5 climbing their BG ranks. Everywhere else I've managed to keep up. The only real gate is CR.

How long has the game been out?

The entire system is designed for whales to race ahead through hell paragon levels.

When you're hitting the next level of hell/loot that will already be 1month+ too late.

That isnt in the spirit of gaming yet we have fiend after fiend defending this shit.

[Nymrohd]

How long has the game been out?

The entire system is designed for whales to race ahead through hell paragon levels.

When you're hitting the next level of hell/loot that will already be 1month+ too late.

That isnt in the spirit of gaming yet we have fiend after fiend defending this shit.

I don't think people are getting that far ahead in paragon levels. I am keeping up with my server's paragon level (40) and I think I've seen people in the high 40s

Also, what is "The spirit of gaming"? Who defined it, Santa Claus?

[RobertoCarlos]

I don't think people are getting that far ahead in paragon levels. I am keeping up with my server's paragon level (40) and I think I've seen people in the high 40s

Also, what is "The spirit of gaming"? Who defined it, Santa Claus?

Effort/skill determined your success, Not the threshold on your credit card limit.

But yeah santa claus. Thats the same.

[Nymrohd]

Effort/skill determined your success, Not the threshold on your credit card limit.

But yeah santa claus. Thats the same.

Yeah I don't get this obsession some people have with meritocracy in gaming. It's entertainment, not a sport. Maybe because we grew up on different games.

[RobertoCarlos]

Yeah I don't get this obsession some people have with meritocracy in gaming. It's entertainment, not a sport. Maybe because we grew up on different games.

Or maybe some people got used to video gaming actually being a product you brought outright and it wasnt a live service that also acted as a gambling vice.

Maybe.

But anyway you seem to have an agenda on this, so tell it to someone who still gives a shit and doesnt see past your fake shit for what it is.

[Delekii]

Yeah I don't get this obsession some people have with meritocracy in gaming. It's entertainment, not a sport. Maybe because we grew up on different games.

You dont get the obsession with games being competitive so that people can judge relative skill??

What is there to get? It speaks for itself. The entertainment comes from comparing yourself to others, knowing that they have access to the same things you have and comparing on equal footing.

When you can buy ranking, skill is functionally meaningless, as is comparison in any way. You claim you've been "able to compete" but it's simply not the case; you're not on the leaderboard, and even if you are you have no indication of how pay to win or not the people around you are. Even the people like wujido who play endlessly and actually are "keeping up" to any kind of degree are absolutely nowhere near keeping up with the actual whales. He has no idea of which of the people he is competing against has bought their skill or not; no idea if he is actually competitive or not. Just feelings (which in many people lead to "these people are all paying, guess I have to pay if I want to compete").

It's kind of amazing you can make the argument that comparison is meaningless, except when it comes to whales, where comparison is mandatory so that they feel compelled to spend money.

To be clear, by "you" I mean the collective, not you specifically.

The likelihood for people to compare themselves to others is even larger today than ever before, where people will constantly compare themselves to whatever online personality they happen to watch.

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Or maybe some people got used to video gaming actually being a product you brought outright and it wasnt a live service that also acted as a gambling vice.

Maybe.

But anyway you seem to have an agenda on this, so tell it to someone who still gives a shit and doesnt see past your fake shit for what it is.

Videogames used to be an artform, where creation of a great game was the goal and monitizing it was important but not at the expense of utterly undermining the product. That is very different from DI, where videogames are a platform toward extracting money from individuals to companies and not entities in their own right.

[RobertoCarlos]

You dont get the obsession with games being competitive so that people can judge relative skill??

What is there to get? It speaks for itself. The entertainment comes from comparing yourself to others, knowing that they have access to the same things you have and comparing on equal footing.

When you can buy ranking, skill is functionally meaningless, as is comparison in any way. You claim you've been "able to compete" but it's simply not the case; you're not on the leaderboard, and even if you are you have no indication of how pay to win or not the people around you are. Even the people like wujido who play endlessly and actually are "keeping up" to any kind of degree are absolutely nowhere near keeping up with the actual whales. He has no idea of which of the people he is competing against has bought their skill or not; no idea if he is actually competitive or not. Just feelings (which in many people lead to "these people are all paying, guess I have to pay if I want to compete").

It's kind of amazing you can make the argument that comparison is meaningless, except when it comes to whales, where comparison is mandatory so that they feel compelled to spend money.

To be clear, by "you" I mean the collective, not you specifically.

The likelihood for people to compare themselves to others is even larger today than ever before, where people will constantly compare themselves to whatever online personality they happen to watch.

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Videogames used to be an artform, where creation of a great game was the goal and monitizing it was important but not at the expense of utterly undermining the product. That is very different from DI, where videogames are a platform toward extracting money from individuals to companies and not entities in their own right.

Agreed. I'm not against them making money. But the product should speak for itself. Diablo 1 and 2, never struggled to sell copies and made more than a generous profit before we started getting the real money auction house in D3 and now whatever the fuck you call Diablo Immortal.

[Zoibert the Bear]

B-but... its 800% value g-guys...!

[Dhrizzle]

I mean you cannot have possibly completed the sets for any builds since set rings only drop at Hell IV.

Well @RobertoCarlos must at least have all the bits he can collect if he has hit a wall where he needs to start paying.

[kranur]

Yeah I don't get this obsession some people have with meritocracy in gaming. It's entertainment, not a sport. Maybe because we grew up on different games.

Wait what? The game literally has leaderboards in which you compete with other players from which you get better rewards and gain access to special areas of the game (like becoming an immortal).
And your success in these parts of the game is most definitely not determined by your skill, until you spend as much as possible. Take for example a f2p guy having the stats on items increased by 15-20% competing against a whale that spent a few grand and has an increase of 150-200% ... small difference right? And the outcome of these 2 players certainly will come from skill.

[Elim Garak]

B-but... its 800% value g-guys...!

And free refills

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Wait what? The game literally has leaderboards in which you compete with other players.

Sure, but why are you obsessed with being at the top?

[RobertoCarlos]

And free refills

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Sure, but why are you obsessed with being at the top?

Yeah being at the top is the same as being competitive. 0 attempt at honest conversations