Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Battlebeard]

how long did it take you to get at least to required minimum to not get immediately squished on hell 2? DID you get to hell 2? hell 3? were you able to go immediately? are you playing solo, or are you getting carried by paying players through content you are too weak for yourself, to get your upgrades faster? because even if you are not competitive player, there absolutely ARE roadblocks unless you don't mind never moving up difficulties, never trying something new etc.

I played solo and didn’t struggle once, you get stronger as you progress ofc. Soon 2000 cr, f2p, no roadblocks ever

[kranur]

Have you guys figured out how deep Blizzard has fallen yet?

It seems like they made a nice product to earn from. Which is good for them(no sarcasm). This will fund WoW and D4 - which is even better.

The only thing it will fund is a few person's yachts and helicopters.

It's really sad to see people actually believing this will produce better games. If anything, if this is successful enough and people get in line to basically eat crap, it's just the beginning of seeing this type of monetization in all of their games.

[HansOlo]

What the fuck are you on about? They plowed thousands of hours into the game, already a top search result if you googled for d:I information, their best fiscal option would be to have 1-2 people work on D:I stuff while pushing more content in other directions, and claim the roll back was for the same reason. They'd get the clout AND still be able to garner use from that audience. This is the kind of work-back-from-your-chosen-result that fuels conspiracy theories. Your last comment just makes your whole post incredibly ironic.

I don't understand you - try again.

- - - Updated - - -

The only thing it will fund is a few person's yachts and helicopters.

It's really sad to see people actually believing this will produce better games. If anything, if this is successful enough and people get in line to basically eat crap, it's just the beginning of seeing this type of monetization in all of their games.

Well here is the thing.

You like Blizzard games? Then support them. I'm not saying go play D:I. The fact IS that D:I is doing good.

We can sit here and complain - they won't and shouldn't care.

If it's OKAY that Lost Ark is even more P2W.
If it's OKAY that many other mobile games, generates thousands of times what Blizzard ever can earn from this.

Then it's also OKAY that the company who creates our favourite games earns money. Just like the executives are buying helicopters, the cleaning lady also earns from it.

Money speaks in the end - no matter what the youtuber is telling you.

[Shiira]

I'm getting pretty tired of hearing deflections about youtube. People are capable of having opinions without needing someone else to tell them what to think. And nobody is claiming it isn't okay for corporations to make money, that's a strawman.

[MoanaLisa]

Well then something must have changed from Blizzard back in the day to present day Blizzard where they often seem to ignore the founding principles that they have enshrined as part of their company culture.

Titan happened. Compare Blizzard pre-Titan to Blizzard post-Titan. That whole experience changed everything for them.

Blizzard was never your friend. You were their customer and they were well-aware of that. It goes without saying that Kotick—who everyone likes to blame for Blizzard's failures—only took the path they themselves would have taken given enough time. Hell, they were already testing the waters for the store while they were still a part of Vivendi and had been charging a lot for game services before that. You're going to tell me they wouldn't have done more with it if they had been on their own? Please.

[Delekii]

I don't understand you - try again.

The list of things you don't understand would build a bridge from Australia to the Arctic.

Well here is the thing.

You like Blizzard games? Then support them. I'm not saying go play D:I. The fact IS that D:I is doing good.

We can sit here and complain - they won't and shouldn't care.

If it's OKAY that Lost Ark is even more P2W.
If it's OKAY that many other mobile games, generates thousands of times what Blizzard ever can earn from this.

Then it's also OKAY that the company who creates our favourite games earns money. Just like the executives are buying helicopters, the cleaning lady also earns from it.

Money speaks in the end - no matter what the youtuber is telling you.

DI is by far one of the most P2W game structures released so far, certainly one of the worst released in the west. Lost Ark doesn't come remotely close.

Nobody in this thread has once said that Blizzard shouldn't earn money. Blizzard has earned a metric fuck-ton of money in the many years prior to DI. The problem exists when that earning of money directly impacts the game quality and design decisions of in-game mechanics.

Just like in the previous thread I saw you in, it seems imminently important to point out that your post history reads like a sexual love letter to Blizzard; I'm really not sure what the company would have to do before they pissed you off, but I imagine it might include some form of literal genocide or something.

[Ghost of Cow]

I played solo and didn’t struggle once, you get stronger as you progress ofc. Soon 2000 cr, f2p, no roadblocks ever

The funny thing is that 99% of the complaints about D:I have revolved around the question of, "What if I want to be totally maxed out right now on day 1?" and then working backwards from there. Then we get all these numbers like $500,000 or something and people saying that's the figure you need just to PLAY the game.

You wonder if they even tried playing the game at all, considering all you can do without spending a dime. Then on top of that they all talk about leaderboards as if they were all going to be #1 if Blizz wasn't so mean.

[Battlebeard]

The funny thing is that 99% of the complaints about D:I have revolved around the question of, "What if I want to be totally maxed out right now on day 1?" and then working backwards from there. Then we get all these numbers like $500,000 or something and people saying that's the figure you need just to PLAY the game.

You wonder if they even tried playing the game at all, considering all you can do without spending a dime. Then on top of that they all talk about leaderboards as if they were all going to be #1 if Blizz wasn't so mean.

I think people are getting more and more unhealthy playstyles for ANY video game. Whether it's competitive game modes in games with focus on rating, or e-sport on twitch, it makes people tryhard more than ever. I never understood this, and I think it's bad for the industry. People push themselves to the max, to be number one and the average user suffer.

Just look at World of Warcraft. Cataclysm had a good amount of content for a regular normal fairly casual player, a healthy player. BUT the super tryhards, who played 12 hours a day, pushed and pushed and "completed" the game early, and then cried and demanded more content, and today WoW is a complete mess, with added systems and collectibles just to keep people occupied, and if you wanna keep up so to speak, you have to play an insane and unhealthy amount of time.

Diablo Immortal was built as a mobile game, aimed toward mobile users, who might have less than an hour a day to play, yet is being critized and slammed by PC users who play 8+ hours a day and complain they can't push it due to system that hold them back. Those players are playing it WRONG. It's not meant to be tryharded and pushed. Same with the P2W, you don't need it to progress the game if you play a normal, healthy amount of time, the way the game was designed.

I encountered no roadblocks, cause I played normal, well, maybe a little more than normal, but still.

[Witchblade77]

I think people are getting more and more unhealthy playstyles for ANY video game. Whether it's competitive game modes in games with focus on rating, or e-sport on twitch, it makes people tryhard more than ever. I never understood this, and I think it's bad for the industry. People push themselves to the max, to be number one and the average user suffer.

Just look at World of Warcraft. Cataclysm had a good amount of content for a regular normal fairly casual player, a healthy player. BUT the super tryhards, who played 12 hours a day, pushed and pushed and "completed" the game early, and then cried and demanded more content, and today WoW is a complete mess, with added systems and collectibles just to keep people occupied, and if you wanna keep up so to speak, you have to play an insane and unhealthy amount of time.

Diablo Immortal was built as a mobile game, aimed toward mobile users, who might have less than an hour a day to play, yet is being critized and slammed by PC users who play 8+ hours a day and complain they can't push it due to system that hold them back. Those players are playing it WRONG. It's not meant to be tryharded and pushed. Same with the P2W, you don't need it to progress the game if you play a normal, healthy amount of time, the way the game was designed.

I encountered no roadblocks, cause I played normal, well, maybe a little more than normal, but still.

you were playing solo, less then hour a day (or at least according to your description of who that game is aimed at).. and are already at 2k cr without buying anything.... either you are lying or you are severely underestimating just how much you are actualy playing.

so anyways, my statistics for the day. content done - vault =1, won shadow war for the week, did like dozen side quests as I came across them while doing bounties (finished all 8) as well as found scroll in Shassar and did corruption in Dark wood. did assembly, 1 contract, one run of regular rift (typically I would run 3 per day, but we didn't have a blessing today, so I took it easy) and a quick horadric run as well as 2 bestiary pages. total legendary count? Two - chest piece and headpiece, neither an upgrade. but at least with all those side quests, I managed to get enough materials to upgrade one of my existing pieces.

now I don't always do exactly the same things every day. shadow war took like 40 minutes alone and most of it was waiting to group up, waiting to start, crap like that. I always don't always do that many side quests. other then picking up my bounties and 3 side quests from adventurer as well as doing at least one rift a day, I tend to go with the flow - if there is a world boss getting killed, I'll join in, if hidden lair opens up near by I hop on, recently if clan is running some dungeons, I might join up for a run or 2. I play give or take 2 hours a day, in chunks. and those 2 leggo's? is a good day for me, there are days when I get none. last 2 upgrades I got were from hitting paragon 45 and from saving up my hilts and buying a random leggo from a vendor.

I do NOT expect to gear up in days. I couldn't care less about leaderboards if I tried with exception of challenge rifts, and that's mostly cause even when someone else clears a milestone, I still get to grab solo rewards so extra bit of gold is nice. what I do expect is that when I do activities that the game sends me to do? I stay up to date on gear that helps do those activities. and it has NOT been my experience so far. it doesn't seem to be an experience for a good number of people, not just me.

and hell, I was moving even slower, before I started focusing on specific activities the game channels you in. but hey.. please do keep defending the questionable design decisions blizzard has been making.

P.S. I have explained why I'm still playing before, in case you are still wondering, but that doesn't make me blind to the game's faults

oh and just because I don't expect to gear up on the same day I hit lvl 60 or something, doesn't mean that the game doesn't provide this option to anyone willing to open their wallet. in ENCOURAGES you to do so, by making other gearing options excruciatingly slow.

[Battlebeard]

you were playing solo, less then hour a day (or at least according to your description of who that game is aimed at).. and are already at 2k cr without buying anything.... either you are lying or you are severely underestimating just how much you are actualy playing.

so anyways, my statistics for the day. content done - vault =1, won shadow war for the week, did like dozen side quests as I came across them while doing bounties (finished all 8) as well as found scroll in Shassar and did corruption in Dark wood. did assembly, 1 contract, one run of regular rift (typically I would run 3 per day, but we didn't have a blessing today, so I took it easy) and a quick horadric run as well as 2 bestiary pages. total legendary count? Two - chest piece and headpiece, neither an upgrade. but at least with all those side quests, I managed to get enough materials to upgrade one of my existing pieces.

now I don't always do exactly the same things every day. shadow war took like 40 minutes alone and most of it was waiting to group up, waiting to start, crap like that. I always don't always do that many side quests. other then picking up my bounties and 3 side quests from adventurer as well as doing at least one rift a day, I tend to go with the flow - if there is a world boss getting killed, I'll join in, if hidden lair opens up near by I hop on, recently if clan is running some dungeons, I might join up for a run or 2. I play give or take 2 hours a day, in chunks. and those 2 leggo's? is a good day for me, there are days when I get none. last 2 upgrades I got were from hitting paragon 45 and from saving up my hilts and buying a random leggo from a vendor.

I do NOT expect to gear up in days. I couldn't care less about leaderboards if I tried with exception of challenge rifts, and that's mostly cause even when someone else clears a milestone, I still get to grab solo rewards so extra bit of gold is nice. what I do expect is that when I do activities that the game sends me to do? I stay up to date on gear that helps do those activities. and it has NOT been my experience so far. it doesn't seem to be an experience for a good number of people, not just me.

and hell, I was moving even slower, before I started focusing on specific activities the game channels you in. but hey.. please do keep defending the questionable design decisions blizzard has been making.

P.S. I have explained why I'm still playing before, in case you are still wondering, but that doesn't make me blind to the game's faults

I never said I played 1 hour, I play probably 4 hours a day, which is much less than those who push it to the limit.

[Witchblade77]

I never said I played 1 hour, I play probably 4 hours a day, which is much less than those who push it to the limit.

but you did say that this game is intended for someone who plays less then an hour. it took you 4 hours a day to get where you are, and that is is somehow all fine and dandy in a game THAT IS MEANT FOR CASUAL LESS THEN AN HOUR A DAY PLAYER????? please. READ what you are saying here. and the fact that you are complaining about no lifers, while playing 4. hours. a DAY.

[Battlebeard]

but you did say that this game is intended for someone who plays less then an hour. it took you 4 hours a day to get where you are, and that is is somehow all fine and dandy in a game THAT IS MEANT FOR CASUAL LESS THEN AN HOUR A DAY PLAYER????? please. READ what you are saying here. and the fact that you are complaining about no lifers, while playing 4. hours. a DAY.

You may not get as far as I have with 1 hour a day, but you won't get stuck either. The MORE you play, the more reason to spend money, not the opposite. So if you play normal, like 1 hour, then you absolutely have no reason to spend money.

[Witchblade77]

You may not get as far as I have with 1 hour a day, but you won't get stuck either. The MORE you play, the more reason to spend money, not the opposite. So if you play normal, like 1 hour, then you absolutely have no reason to spend money.

except.... I found it to be the opposite. no matter how much or how little you play? the game will give you a reason to pay money. honestly I have a feeling that the ONLY reason you are not feeling stuck is because you are used to the kind of grinds WoW throws at you. you expect to grind for hours a day to possibly get no upgrades for your time.

[Caerrona]

except.... I found it to be the opposite. no matter how much or how little you play? the game will give you a reason to pay money. honestly I have a feeling that the ONLY reason you are not feeling stuck is because you are used to the kind of grinds WoW throws at you. you expect to grind for hours a day to possibly get no upgrades for your time.

the people who play an hour a day don't need to grind for anything. There is WAY more than enough content to fill an hour a day that isn't grinding.

You are confusing the 2 to push your blizzard bad greedy company narrative.

[Varitok]

the people who play an hour a day don't need to grind for anything. There is WAY more than enough content to fill an hour a day that isn't grinding.

You are confusing the 2 to push your blizzard bad greedy company narrative.

They literally are greedy as all fuck, Whether or not you want to delude yourself into thinking otherwise is up to you.

[Pyrans]

you expect to grind for hours a day to possibly get no upgrades for your time.

Sounds like D2&3.

DI is designed for casual progression throughout months/years, not days like the complaints demand. The paragon trees will take 300 days before the server cap is done and you have every tree at 100, but it's not 300 days of non stop 8+ hour grinding.

[Ghost of Cow]

except.... I found it to be the opposite. no matter how much or how little you play? the game will give you a reason to pay money. honestly I have a feeling that the ONLY reason you are not feeling stuck is because you are used to the kind of grinds WoW throws at you. you expect to grind for hours a day to possibly get no upgrades for your time.

This is a "feels, not reals" problem.

You FEEL like the game is giving you a reason to spend because you're impatient and/or greedy. So you just keep saying the game is "forcing" you to spend because you want something more.

[rhorle]

Ah yes, the "money is more important than people" stick. Doesn't matter if predatory monetary systems are implemented because CONSUMERS being able to spend money is GOOD. CONSUME, if you don't like this, CONSUME THAT!

Is it really a shtick if money is the important factor? Even the countries that ban loot boxes only do so when money is involved. If it is 100% free then there is no problem seen with the practice even though it still is predatory. It still conditions players to accept that style of mechanics etc etc.

[TheRevenantHero]

They literally are greedy as all fuck, Whether or not you want to delude yourself into thinking otherwise is up to you.

You are arguing with someone who literally defends every single decision Blizzard makes regardless of how predatory or toxic or stupid those decisions are.

[rhorle]

It doesn't ban lootboxes in video games themselves because you can have forms of gambling, games have evolved and had more and more of it. When you kill a boss the loot that drops is "gambling", but the only thing you insert is time and the cost of the game (subscriptions exempt because you aren't paying a sub for the CHANCE to play the game).

Right. The predatory things are acceptable because it is free. All you are doing is showing the hypocrisy of the matter and how it all comes down to money. Even your line about purchasing options can exist again shows it isn't about the predatory nature. Simply the cost. When it is a cost that is acceptable to a persons arbitrary line then it is fine. When the cost is not acceptable to a persons arbitrary line then it is not acceptable and an evil predatory thing.

Also ask a recovering addict, or addiction conusler, how easily things can be a gateway. Free predatory mechanics are an easy gateway into paid ones and also condition players to accept it, right? Why not put a stop to those mechanics in the first place?