Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Biomega]

That's the game telling you "you play TOO MUCH". You have a choice: play less or pay. Freedom of choice is awesome.

Game: *puts arbitrary restrictions in when IT decides YOU have "played too much"*
Clown: MAN AREN'T FREE CHOICES AWESOME!

[rhorle]

Game: *puts arbitrary restrictions in when IT decides YOU have "played too much"*
Clown: MAN AREN'T FREE CHOICES AWESOME!

How many games give actual free choices? Remember they all constrain your choices based on mechanics. Plenty of games indicate you've played to much and WoW for example still has it as a core thing with Lockouts. Daily, Weekly, Monthly, Season etc are all common arbitrary things defined by a developer to indicate when you've "finished" for that period.

[Elim Garak]

Every restriction in every game is arbitrary. Devs simply decided to put them there.

[Nymrohd]

Blizzard was never your friend. You were their customer and they were well-aware of that. It goes without saying that Kotick—who everyone likes to blame for Blizzard's failures—only took the path they themselves would have taken given enough time. Hell, they were already testing the waters for the store while they were still a part of Vivendi and had been charging a lot for game services before that. You're going to tell me they wouldn't have done more with it if they had been on their own? Please.

People really need to understand that devs are people with a job too. Many start very passionate. They make games they love. They crunch insane amount of hours to get them ready (often with their lives dissolving around them). And at some point they are successful and get a chance to sell, be acquired, make an IPO and cash in for all the passion and all the work they've put in. And they absolutely deserve that money. After that they will keep making games but they will have junior devs doing the crunch (because by now they are in their late thirties/early forties and they won't survive those working hours or at least their lives would fall apart if they tried) and they will have professional management control the companies.

[Ghost of Cow]

1. I didn's say force. I said its being very pushy about all the different things you can buy.
2. that whole feels thing? is kinda the point. because the "feels" is what they are deliberately appealing to. BY. DESIGN. none of this is by accident. and the way monetization is designed? is "REALS" https://news.uchicago.edu/explainer/...oral-economics

It's still fun watching more people apparently just now realize that companies sell things and want to convince you to buy them.

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People really need to understand that devs are people with a job too. Many start very passionate. They make games they love. They crunch insane amount of hours to get them ready (often with their lives dissolving around them). And at some point they are successful and get a chance to sell, be acquired, make an IPO and cash in for all the passion and all the work they've put in. And they absolutely deserve that money. After that they will keep making games but they will have junior devs doing the crunch (because by now they are in their late thirties/early forties and they won't survive those working hours or at least their lives would fall apart if they tried) and they will have professional management control the companies.

It's like the people who whine about musicians being "sellouts" because they actually want to get paid for spending years doing something.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Fuck me, either there are a LOT of Blizzard's PR team in this thread, or there are a lot of people that appear to be doing pro-bono work for them. What is it about ordinary people leaping to the defence of giant corporations with predatory consumer practices?

[HansOlo]

The list of things you don't understand would build a bridge from Australia to the Arctic.


DI is by far one of the most P2W game structures released so far, certainly one of the worst released in the west. Lost Ark doesn't come remotely close.

Nobody in this thread has once said that Blizzard shouldn't earn money. Blizzard has earned a metric fuck-ton of money in the many years prior to DI. The problem exists when that earning of money directly impacts the game quality and design decisions of in-game mechanics.

Just like in the previous thread I saw you in, it seems imminently important to point out that your post history reads like a sexual love letter to Blizzard; I'm really not sure what the company would have to do before they pissed you off, but I imagine it might include some form of literal genocide or something.

The problem exists when that earning of money directly impacts the game quality and design decisions of in-game mechanics.

Nope. Nothing to discuss. You just entered the loop again of saying nothing.

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O o o f, calling out others for high-school failing thesis' and you can't follow a short-hand paragraph in response to your drivel.



Ah yes, the "money is more important than people" stick. Doesn't matter if predatory monetary systems are implemented because CONSUMERS being able to spend money is GOOD. CONSUME, if you don't like this, CONSUME THAT!

Consumption isn't the benefit you think it is, there's a reason that Tuberculosis was also called "consumption", it feeds on the body well past what the body can handle.

Okay...

Did you just assume that Blizzard is this monster, forcing people to pay? People are mindless bugs and being taken advantage of? Is the general assumption - and we are all poor souls. Is that the attitude?

That means Blizzard made a great product. Just like Apple, just like Microsoft or any company - they know how to reach a specific group in thier audiance. Good for Blizzard.

Have you ever considered, that MAYBE - this game is for the whales and not you?

Grade=fail.

[HansOlo]

Fuck me, either there are a LOT of Blizzard's PR team in this thread, or there are a lot of people that appear to be doing pro-bono work for them. What is it about ordinary people leaping to the defence of giant corporations with predatory consumer practices?

When the community throws this in a thread:
Predatory Consumer Practices.

I simple lose it. You just represent this hivemind of people saying things, without having any real opinion.

I say this once again - Blizzard is equally entitled to earn money, than any other company on the mobile market. This is not the same as WoW and D4 should turn to a same model.

If you have to be righteous - then you go open war on every and each company you can find on the mobile market.

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Strawmen galore, also fuck this made me laugh:
"made a great product"
lowest metacritic score, unanimous criticism,

Using that as a measuring stick, my last shit was a great product too. Would you like some?

No - it's more like when witchhunters(you)asked in a survey "What do you think of witches?"(imagine these really mentally degraded people with pitch forks).

And again - when I just challenge you a little bit - you go personal. You don't have any opinion. Get back to twitch or youtube - where ever they influenze you.

[Huehuecoyotl]

When the community throws this in a thread:
Predatory Consumer Practices.

I simple lose it. You just represent this hivemind of people saying things, without having any real opinion.

I say this once again - Blizzard is equally entitled to earn money, than any other company on the mobile market. This is not the same as WoW and D4 should turn to a same model.

If you have to be righteous - then you go open war on every and each company you can find on the mobile market.

If you don't believe that a combination of gamification with gambling taken to an extent that someone could lose the value of their house is a bad thing, then honestly I don't know what to say. Gaming can be an opportunity to make money by providing a pleasurable experience for players. If you lose the latter part entirely in the race to cram as much of the former in as you possibly can, then you deserve to get called out for it.

Again, I'd ask why you'd defend practices like that? Do you actually think they serve a useful purpose? Or did you read a book about libetarianism last month and you've now jumped on board the "anything goes if the market lets it" approach?

[Witchblade77]

It's still fun watching more people apparently just now realize that companies sell things and want to convince you to buy them.

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It's like the people who whine about musicians being "sellouts" because they actually want to get paid for spending years doing something.

1. I love how you keep moving goalposts around trying to defend corporation pushing those sales tactics to the extreme. yes companies always want to sell you things. its the methods that we are upset about.
2. fuck yeah I want DEVELOPERS to make money. DEVELOPERS. not upper management that often makes decisions that makes product OBJECTIVELY WORSE, in order to put more money into their own pockets. NOT DEVELOPER pockets.

you are doing an equivalent of defending a music label draining both their artists AND customers dry with horrible contracts etc by saying that artists deserve to get paid. yeah. ARTISTS. not the leeches at the top who only understand dollar signs.

[HansOlo]

If you don't believe that a combination of gamification with gambling taken to an extent that someone could lose the value of their house is a bad thing, then honestly I don't know what to say. Gaming can be an opportunity to make money by providing a pleasurable experience for players. If you lose the latter part entirely in the race to cram as much of the former in as you possibly can, then you deserve to get called out for it.

Again, I'd ask why you'd defend practices like that? Do you actually think they serve a useful purpose? Or did you read a book about libetarianism last month and you've now jumped on board the "anything goes if the market lets it" approach?

I will turn this around:

You know that there is a bunch of people working at Blizzard. These whales are paying the wages from the cleaning lady to the receptionist.
You see - you assume that people are losing everything from playing a game. Did you also assume that people are making a living out of this?

But you don't assume that people are equally in the same risk of playing say Angry Birds(bad example) - when you downtalk 'gambling'. It's all Blizzards fault suddenly.

I think Blizzard made a great product. If people wants to play it and pay - good. It's a win/win - im not entitled to have any opinion.

[Huehuecoyotl]

I will turn this around:

You know that there is a bunch of people working at Blizzard. These whales are paying the wages from the cleaning lady to the receptionist.
You see - you assume that people are losing everything from playing a game. Did you also assume that people are making a living out of this?

But you don't assume that people are equally in the same risk of playing say Angry Birds(bad example) - when you downtalk 'gambling'. It's all Blizzards fault suddenly.

I think Blizzard made a great product. If people wants to play it and pay - good. It's a win/win - im not entitled to have any opinion.

You need to disconnect things. You should be able to look at the company, Blizzard, the gameplay of the game itself and lastly the monetization of the game as three separate things.

So, I'll ask you this; do you see anything wrong with the monetization aspects of this game? Is this a trend in gaming that you'd be happy to see extend across a wider group of games on different platforms?

There is no way that your answer should be that you're fine with it. Because it's predatory and it's preying on the natural weakness of people in a way that's been dialled up to 11. Nobody who has any experience with people facing issues with gambling in themselves or their families would believe this.

[Witchblade77]

and I find it extremely naive and laughable that these tactics are in any way necessary to pay the salary of the cleaning lady. no. these tactics exist to buy people like Bobby Kotik and his ilk - their third yaht and fifth vacation villa. meanwhile aforementioned cleaning lady along with developers actualy working on the game and trying to do their best within the constrains to shove monetization into everything - are getting paid peanuts while burning themselves out with mandatory overtime.

[HansOlo]

You need to disconnect things. You should be able to look at the company, Blizzard, the gameplay of the game itself and lastly the monetization of the game as three separate things.

So, I'll ask you this; do you see anything wrong with the monetization aspects of this game? Is this a trend in gaming that you'd be happy to see extend across a wider group of games on different platforms?

There is no way that your answer should be that you're fine with it. Because it's predatory and it's preying on the natural weakness of people in a way that's been dialled up to 11. Nobody who has any experience with people facing issues with gambling in themselves or their families would believe this.

STOP. SAYING. PREDATORY!

There is NOTHING in this world - that isn't "PREDATORY" - it's all subjective opinion.

I told you - I rather want Blizzard to earn money than any other company who are equally "PREDATORY".
I don't have to play a game like this.
I won't affect the direction. Blizzard reached the market they wanted to - and someone else gladly pays, instead of me.

I'm losing my mind. Jesus.

[HansOlo]

Just because you don't like the word predatory, doesn't mean D:I does not have one of, if not the most predatory Microtransaction systems in the world. Yeah other companies suck too, but this isn't about them, this thread is about D:I. If you want to crap on mihoyo, or EA, or Activision itself, go for it, plenty of places to be appropriate.

Also record profits and revenue does not equate to this shit paying more staff, especially at Actiblizz that underpays their staff horrendously and has recently had incredible layoffs. You are being ignorant to what is happening because of your biases. If it upsets you that much, leave the thread and continue to think of Blizzard as a fantastic company. We can't stop you from creating your own reality, we can only offer our unfettered opinion, and that of many other people.

Just because you are repeating somebody else by saying 'predatory' - doesn't make it right.

Yeah - let's all boycot Blizzard so people lose thier job, all the partner companies etc. would also get affected. It really justifies everything and changes it.

Do you see how low this discussion is. There will always be the most greedy company - they will only fail if there is no market. There is a market for D:I and good for Blizzard.

All I wanted to point out was fck the youtube algoritihm. In old days people would move on. Now here we are, listening to Bellulars echoing voice in the hallway thanks to this BS community.

[Caerrona]

Just because you are repeating somebody else by saying 'predatory' - doesn't make it right.

Yeah - let's all boycot Blizzard so people lose thier job, all the partner companies etc. would also get affected. It really justifies everything and changes it.

Do you see how low this discussion is. There will always be the most greedy company - they will only fail if there is no market. There is a market for D:I and good for Blizzard.

All I wanted to point out was fck the youtube algoritihm. In old days people would move on. Now here we are, listening to Bellulars echoing voice in the hallway thanks to this BS community.

That dude is just hyped up on the fact that his favorite youtuber said "DI is bad, blizzard is bad".

DI is stratospheres away from "the most predatory game ever". Literally parroted from some rage bait youtuber with 0 critical thinking applied lol.

[HansOlo]

What the hell are you talking about? It is totally predatory



Like the system is there to continually force respins on a wheel, that you have nfi what you are going to get, you could get everything you want in 50k, you could spend 50k and get nothing you want. Thinking like this is what lets shitholes like Amway or NFTs function, because people seem to think "If someone wants to pay then how is it wrong?" You are upset words have meanings that you don't like.

People didn't boycott Blizzard, they still had layoffs. Your delusions are not lining up with reality at all.

https://www.destructoid.com/approxim...sion-blizzard/



The only low part of this conversation is you keep coming back. You've made up your mind to the degree that rivals flat-earthers, all because you hate the youtube algorithm? Is that because people, shock and horror, may agree on things?! Take some time away from the thread and go play D:I instead. If you like the game go play it instead of being here arguing IMO.

Bro, it's totaly "predatory"...

Blizzard SUCCEEDED. They didn't fail - there are many people, who are paying Blizzard gladly.

YOU don't have to pay. I'm not forcing you to smoke cigerattes either.

Fck this - i'm out.

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That dude is just hyped up on the fact that his favorite youtuber said "DI is bad, blizzard is bad".

DI is stratospheres away from "the most predatory game ever". Literally parroted from some rage bait youtuber with 0 critical thinking applied lol.

Exactly. THANK YOU - I start second guessing myself.

So - for the record Minifie - if you are looking for a predator - start with YouTube.

[HansOlo]

D:I is bad, Blizzard is bad, sorry I'm not parroting your opinion. Also what is the most predatory game ever compared to D:I? Legitimately would like to know.



It's for the best, you are not making any sense and continually seem to be beating on some poor strawman to the point it is just a stick in the ground.

Keep trolling - by the end of the day - you didn't have any opinion.

[Caerrona]

Bro, it's totaly "predatory"...

Blizzard SUCCEEDED. They didn't fail - there are many people, who are paying Blizzard gladly.

YOU don't have to pay. I'm not forcing you to smoke cigerattes either.

Fck this - i'm out.

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Exactly. THANK YOU - I start second guessing myself.

So - for the record Minifie - if you are looking for a predator - start with YouTube.

Almost ever single gacha game on the planet has a worse monetization that literally forces to spend months grinding or pay stupid amounts to play the game at all.

I haven't had a single time in playing DI where I felt like I needed to pay for anything to play the game.

[Caerrona]

Okay so you are definitely not here for discussion, glad we could resolve that formally.



D:I is a Gacha game as well, oops.

it doesn't force you to spend $ by literally walling you off content due to stamina/crazy difficulty spikes.

I played maybe 2-3 hours a day the first couple weeks and since than maybe 30minutes-2 hours a day and not a single point was there content I couldn't do unless I payed money, oops.