Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Witchblade77]

ya'll you will never convince these people. they have made up their minds and no evidence in a world will convince them.

incidentally, working through addiction is a choice. going into recovery is a choice. being an addict? is not. that is why addicts are considered recovering for life, because its a chronic condition, you cannot just cure it, only treat it and minimize its effects. but I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here for some of you and falling on deaf ears in case of the people I have decided to ignore, except ignore function on this forum is terrible, since it does nothing for quotes. ah well.

I mean... people have died from various overdoses, but yeah, sure. who cares about evidence when belief is on the line.

[Delekii]

Cause I will try as much as I possibly can, to help people understand that Blizzard hasn't done anything wrong with Diablo Immortal.

If you call Blizzard predators just because you have some scientist say addiction is a disease and they target sick people, is exactly the same thing as calling all religions people morons for believing in God, just cause some scientist say God isn't real.

Do you not see the problem here? Do you not see what you are doing? You are saying your "science" is more important than the opinion of millions of people (who obviously like Immortal as they haven't quit). Which is the same as saying science is more important than the belief and opinion of BILLIONS of people who believe in God.

Who the hell gave you that power, who do you think you are? Who does w/e scientist you have think he/she is. I find your way of arguing offensive to be honest.

Are you for real?

You can believe until your heart's desire, but if a brick falls on your head you get a concussion - that's gravity. Science doesn't need to discuss being "important", it doesn't have an ego, it isn't a thing with a conscience. It describes the facts, as they can best be understood by humans today. Who does the scientist think they are? Someone who knows the facts and doesn't give a fuck about whatever invisible person you believe in.

One doesn't need to be "given power" to state what is a fact. People who say there is unequivocally no god are not stating so from a point of science, but there is also zero evidence to suggest there is. It isn't a belief that addiction is a disease - it is. That is a fact. It also isn't a belief that Blizzard is targeting it - they are. That is a fact. What you believe about the matter is irrelevant, it isn't a discussion with two sides. It is a statement of a fact, which you incorrectly disbelieve. That's it.

As always - if you have evidence to support your contrarian position then present it and change the world; that is the power of science. It doesn't matter if every other person on Earth doesn't agree with you - present the evidence to peer review, and if it hold up, you're right and they change their minds. The same is not true of belief. Belief requires active active suspension of disbelief after a given level of education.

[Ghost of Cow]

So, in another example, do you think all BILLIONS of religious people who believe in God are crazy or wrong just cause science can't prove God exist, or rather prove he doesn't exist?

We are never gonna agree here. Addiciton is a choice, but losers who get addicted are never gonna take responsibility, cause they feel embarassed and they are lazy. They may feel they can't help it, but that still doesn't make it a disease, cause they CAN actually help it if they just put in a little work.

But why work hard to improve yourself, when you can take the easy route and blame it on a disease, so you don't have to work at all, don't need to take any responsbility and maybe even have people feel bad for you and actually gain things.

I'm sorry, but then again I'm not sorry, addicts are pathetic people. Get a grip of your life and be freaking happy you don't have cancer or something. This soft "poor addict awww" is making me extremely angry.

I mean, you're straight up wrong here about addiction. (although, much in the vein of terms like "OCD", people misuse the word addiction so much to describe things that aren't addictions at all. So it's no wonder people misunderstand it so much.)

But more importantly you're letting them drag the discussion away from the actual topic. You've become so embroiled in a debate on what "addiction" is that you've basically allowed "Everyone is addicted in Diablo" to become a given within the discussion.

[RobertoCarlos]

I mean, you're straight up wrong here about addiction. (although, much in the vein of terms like "OCD", people misuse the word addiction so much to describe things that aren't addictions at all. So it's no wonder people misunderstand it so much.)

But more importantly you're letting them drag the discussion away from the actual topic. You've become so embroiled in a debate on what "addiction" is that you've basically allowed "Everyone is addicted in Diablo" to become a given within the discussion.

"you're letting them" like it's a team game of football.

Could just argue in good faith and what you actually believe rather than the typical us vs them. Right vs left. Blue vs red.

I'm just amazed your team dont even attempt to find common ground in the exploitation of consumers because fuck them thier money thier choice. It's uneducated codswallop

[Ghost of Cow]

"you're letting them" like it's a team game of football.

Could just argue in good faith and what you actually believe rather than the typical us vs them. Right vs left. Blue vs red.

I'm just amazed your team dont even attempt to find common ground in the exploitation of consumers because fuck them thier money thier choice. It's uneducated codswallop

I didn't say anything about teams. Do you have a better word than, "They" or "Them" to describe a generic group of people? Or do you just want to whine about absolutely nothing?

[RobertoCarlos]

I didn't say anything about teams. Do you have a better word than, "They" or "Them" to describe a generic group of people? Or do you just want to whine about absolutely nothing?

Says the guy trying to coach his boy on how to deal with the "haters" better.

I guess its hard finding good team mates when you are arguing from a side of bad faith and bad takes and cheering for the exploitation of gamers though.

[Ghost of Cow]

Says the guy trying to coach his boy on how to deal with the "haters" better.

I guess its hard finding good team mates when you are arguing from a side of bad faith and bad takes and cheering for the exploitation of gamers though.

So no answer to any of those questions. Still not sure what I should call a generic group of people other than "them" without making a "team" out of them.

Guess we know who's the one arguing in bad faith and just here to bitch and moan. Anyway, I'm done with letting you steer the topic into a sea of bullshit, too.

[RobertoCarlos]

So no answer to any of those questions. Still not sure what I should call a generic group of people other than "them" without making a "team" out of them.

Guess we know who's the one arguing in bad faith and just here to bitch and moan. Anyway, I'm done with letting you steer the topic into a sea of bullshit, too.

Yeah im the one using south park and religion as an attempt to make a point like your boy. Rofl.

[Djuntas]

So I hit 46 now. Clearly loots are less now, but legendaries/builds/lego gems matters more. So end-game start.

Game is good, which sucks. When I hit lvl 46 one of the stupid UI flashes was apparently a 240% value offer for 10 euro...

Game is good man. Cant deny. Kinda fun and good, but I doubt ill play more than to 60. By now lvling is also way to slow, more based on the stupid battle pass BS system that gives XP rather than playing the game. Was gonna quit at level 40, but think I might play more.

If they could remove all the BS systems, makes gems more fair and no fucking battle pass or whatever it is, game would actually be like a top 5 modern ARPG game potentiel. Also the game is way to easy or my build is just to strong. I rarely die anymore...I need more hard content while lvling.

[Battlebeard]

Ah yes, deflect when you know you are wrong, that's cool. You say it doesn't happen and when you realize that people with various addictions fall prey to tactics of mobile games you just fire that one off.

Yes, people are able to spend money how they choose, but don't forget those actions can affect others. Ever heard stories of parents with gambling addictions and their kids grow up in homes in poverty or worse? You think just because it is a mobile game that it has never happened? Show some fucking empathy.

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Ah so you are just being willfully ignorant. Got it.

Yup, people suffering from alcoholism (which has ruined countless lives btw) are not suffering from a disease because Battlebeard says so. I think I'll take the word of professionals in healthcare/mental health over your willful ignorance. You aren't here to argue in good faith, which has been known, but to say shit like that is just sad man.

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And if you know anyone that has lost fucking lives in a car crash because someone suffering from alcoholism caused an accident you wouldn't be so disrespectful to even say it wasn't as bad as or worse than other diseases.

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The fucking irony. It is palpable.

Did you just defend drunk drivers? Drunk drivers should get life in prison. Blaming alcoholism for their stupid choices, give me a break. I have zero empathy for alcoholics. My grandfather was an alcoholic, he lived at the bottom of a bottle, but when I was born, he just quit, just like that, over night. He had a beer once in a while but it never was a problem for him ever again. If he can do it, ANYONE can, if they just fight and work hard.

Comparing something you can just stop (addiction) with something you just can't stop (like cancer) is extremely offensive.

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Are you for real?

You can believe until your heart's desire, but if a brick falls on your head you get a concussion - that's gravity. Science doesn't need to discuss being "important", it doesn't have an ego, it isn't a thing with a conscience. It describes the facts, as they can best be understood by humans today. Who does the scientist think they are? Someone who knows the facts and doesn't give a fuck about whatever invisible person you believe in.

One doesn't need to be "given power" to state what is a fact. People who say there is unequivocally no god are not stating so from a point of science, but there is also zero evidence to suggest there is. It isn't a belief that addiction is a disease - it is. That is a fact. It also isn't a belief that Blizzard is targeting it - they are. That is a fact. What you believe about the matter is irrelevant, it isn't a discussion with two sides. It is a statement of a fact, which you incorrectly disbelieve. That's it.

As always - if you have evidence to support your contrarian position then present it and change the world; that is the power of science. It doesn't matter if every other person on Earth doesn't agree with you - present the evidence to peer review, and if it hold up, you're right and they change their minds. The same is not true of belief. Belief requires active active suspension of disbelief after a given level of education.

What freaking proof. Sometimes our immune system can cure some disease, but for many of them, we cannot cure disease on our own.

Addiction isn't a disease cause you can just chose to quit. Addicted to cigarettes? Stop smoking, litterally stop your hand from getting into the pack, grabbing a cigg then moving to your mouth, you can just stop it. Same with alcohol, just stop drinking. Same with gambling, just stop play.

It's not rocket science, just STOP, it's really that simple. You just need some discipline and some strenght. And if you can't, you lack discipline or strenght, but you don't have a freaking disease.

If addiction was a disease, no addict could just quit just like that, but I know multiple who have, and I see that as proof.

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I mean, you're straight up wrong here about addiction. (although, much in the vein of terms like "OCD", people misuse the word addiction so much to describe things that aren't addictions at all. So it's no wonder people misunderstand it so much.)

But more importantly you're letting them drag the discussion away from the actual topic. You've become so embroiled in a debate on what "addiction" is that you've basically allowed "Everyone is addicted in Diablo" to become a given within the discussion.

Not really, cause people say Blizzard are bad guys for praying on the weak and the sick (people with addictions) and if I would consider addiction a disease, I would absolutely agree they are a bad company who pray on people.

However, because I don't consider addiction a disease, they are just "praying" on regular adults, and there is nothing wrong with that, cause we are adults, we should have the brain capacity and the strenght to just say no. Hence Blizzard are NOT a bad company, they are just businessmen.

There is nothing wrong with selling crap for an expensive price, there is nothing wrong in taking advantage of stupid people, they have it coming, and that is the cold hearted truth. It's not okey taking advantage of mentally handicapped people, but stupid people aren't mentally handicapped, just stupid.

I think it's slander to call Blizzard for predators, cause they are not targeting any group of people who cannot handle it. They are NOT targeting kids either, so Blizzards strategies are fine.

[Kyanion]

Did you just defend drunk drivers?

Where the fuck do you see me defending drunk drivers? Really?

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My grandfather was an alcoholic, he lived at the bottom of a bottle, but when I was born, he just quit, just like that, over night.

You live quite the charmed life. Just because one person did something does not mean it is now the template for all people battling alcoholism. But as we know you have zero empathy.

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He had a beer once in a while but it never was a problem for him ever again.

So he never actually quit, got it. And never a 'problem'? /doubt

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If he can do it, ANYONE can, if they just fight and work hard.

Then if it was so easy he should have never started in the first place. If it was so easy then anyone can kick any disease by hard work right? Any addiction, hard work said you're done! We don't live in the magical fantasy land that you think we do. Some people can battle their addictions and diseases and win, many cannot.

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Comparing something you can just stop (addiction) with something you just can't stop (like cancer) is extremely offensive.

Yes and you're offensive for suggesting that alcoholism is not a disease as well as an addiction. Except the difference is alcoholism can kill other people as it kills the person suffering from it. Hence drunks getting behind the wheel and killing themselves or others.

[Delekii]

What freaking proof. Sometimes our immune system can cure some disease, but for many of them, we cannot cure disease on our own.

Addiction isn't a disease cause you can just chose to quit. Addicted to cigarettes? Stop smoking, litterally stop your hand from getting into the pack, grabbing a cigg then moving to your mouth, you can just stop it. Same with alcohol, just stop drinking. Same with gambling, just stop play.

It's not rocket science, just STOP, it's really that simple. You just need some discipline and some strenght. And if you can't, you lack discipline or strenght, but you don't have a freaking disease.

If addiction was a disease, no addict could just quit just like that, but I know multiple who have, and I see that as proof.

What you see as proof is irrelevant, because (very fucking clearly) you aren't an expert.

Some people have cancer that just goes away, or doesn't kill them. Some people don't. Some people get covid and have a runny nose. Some people get covid and die drowning in fluid in their lungs.

If people could just stop, nobody would be a smoker, or a gambler, or fat, or any other thing that negatively affects one's life. It is an utterly simplistic world view to think that because some people can "just quit", everybody can - especially when the evidence proves otherwise. Literally the first line of your post says "sometimes our immune system can cure disease, but other times, we can't". Then you go on to say some people can just stop being addicted, but somehow that is evidence for you that everyone should be able to. Your capacity for reason is laughable.

The "lack of willpower" is in and of itself part of the disease. Willpower is not a measurable, quantifiable element, but brain chemistry is. If you have actual interest in learning, rather than just relying on your own anecdotal evidence to support the view you already have, do some reading on brain chemistry in addiction. In the worst form of addiction, addicts could no sooner "just stop" than cut their own arm off.

[Aucald]

Let's drop the derailing tangent about the psychology and medical facets of addiction (which falls pretty close to forbidden topics) and return to the actual discussion of Diablo Immortal's MTX scheme.

[Battlebeard]

Where the fuck do you see me defending drunk drivers? Really?

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You live quite the charmed life. Just because one person did something does not mean it is now the template for all people battling alcoholism. But as we know you have zero empathy.

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So he never actually quit, got it. And never a 'problem'? /doubt

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Then if it was so easy he should have never started in the first place. If it was so easy then anyone can kick any disease by hard work right? Any addiction, hard work said you're done! We don't live in the magical fantasy land that you think we do. Some people can battle their addictions and diseases and win, many cannot.

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Yes and you're offensive for suggesting that alcoholism is not a disease as well as an addiction. Except the difference is alcoholism can kill other people as it kills the person suffering from it. Hence drunks getting behind the wheel and killing themselves or others.

You go quite off topic, but i feel I have to reply.

1. You defended them by saying people who suffered by their "disease", it's no disease, drunk drivers aren't victims, they can't blame anything, even diseases.

2. Why would he need to quit, he had discipline, only weak people need "all or nothing". He quit being an addict, that's enough.

3. You seem to think addiction is only bad and that everyone suffer from it. He loved to drink, he enjoyed it, he started cause he wanted to. He quit cause he wanted to.

4. Considering I am pro-death penalty and don't see addiction as a disease, I personally think people who are stupid and evil to CHOSE to go drunk driving, risking other peoples life deserve to die. Drunk drivers dying is a good thing.

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Let's drop the derailing tangent about the psychology and medical facets of addiction (which falls pretty close to forbidden topics) and return to the actual discussion of Diablo Immortal's MTX scheme.

I'm sorry, but they kept pushing toward me, and I think it's very relevant, cause the entire thread is based on people calling Blizzard bad and "schemers" cause they take advantage of weak people, namely addicts, and my arguments are that they are NOT taking advantage cause addicts aren't weak, hence they do nothing wrong.

[Battlebeard]

Your, what I can only deem "callous" ethical standings aside, the fact that D:I monetization preys on those with addiction tendencies and issues doesn't sway to your ignorance. The unethical gacha model needs to be heavily scrutinized, if not outright banned.

Says who? Can't companies sell whatever they want? No one ever force you to buy anything. Should we cancel all of Las Vegas too?

[KainneAbsolute]

A guild master kicked all his guild and kept all the rewards for himself:

[Nymrohd]

Authentic diablo experience.

I mean, Diablo 2 trading scams were quite amazing

We won the Rite yesterday so I am starting my time as an Immortal this week. Let's see how it goes.

[Elim Garak]

A guild master kicked all his guild and kept all the rewards for himself

Classic MMO stuff

[Mendzia]

A guild master kicked all his guild and kept all the rewards for himself:

LOL
... and there are already same people defending this saying 'D2 was scam too' or it is 'absolutely normal in MMO'... not sure which one is worse...

[Elim Garak]

LOL
... and there are already same people defending this saying 'D2 was scam too' or it is 'absolutely normal in MMO'... not sure which one is worse...

Saying that scammers play MMOs - is not defending them.
But pretending this is something new and exclusive to D:I - is a manipulation. The bad kind.