Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[rhorle]

By what means have I been exploited by PoE?

They convinced you to pay $3k for cosmetics. You are just rationalizing it as not being exploited because you don't mind it. Note I am not saying buying cosmetics is inherently bad. Just that games manipulate people into spending money on them in various ways. We can't ignore that just because it isn't pay to win. If exploitation in game design is bad then it should be bad even with out pay to win, right?

Meanwhile if you stop paying for Diablo, your new characters don't get the benefit from your old purchases, you lose stash space, you will stop getting login bonus boosts. You will not have access to high rank gems. All of which will impede your ability to enjoy the game to the same level. You won't be competitive and could get kicked from your raid or pvp groups.

And? That is what happens with a subscription. You stop paying and you don't get the rewards.

And DI is special because it marks blizzards first title to employ such blatantly anti-consumer tactics.

No it doesn't. Hearthstone came out in 2014 and is pay to win and gambling. Isn't it funny how you and others always over look that in order to complain. The experience in Diablo Immortal is not sub par. It is your standard ARPG RNG grind game. Having short cuts or boosts to that grind is not a sub par experience because the core game play doesn't change. You've already stated that ARPG games are heavily gambling focused so you can't back down now.

[everydaygamer]

41 years or $110k, what you don't have ether to spare well fuck you then....

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/...-up-to-110000/



Fuck this company and anyone who defends this shit.

This is such a stupid argument. It assumes people need to max out there character as quickly as possible. That is a long term goal, even from a competitive stand point I'm not sure nescessary that is. Not that it matters since only the top 1% care about being competitive.

[Jtbrig7390]

This is such a stupid argument. It assumes people need to max out there character as quickly as possible. That is a long term goal, even from a competitive stand point I'm not sure nescessary that is. Not that it matters since only the top 1% care about being competitive.

Yep play 41 years (that's how long it would take to get a full set of legendary gems without spending a dime)....

Very long term goal....

People defending this shit you really should tell us how much stock you own.

[dope_danny]

I wish i could be surprised there are people mazed enough to defend even Blizzards scummiest business tactics but at this point they could have all their customer information leaked and people would still rabidly defend their brand god.

[hecpercu]

The problem is that thin line between buying something cool and gambling , the itches and future problems with gambling it creates. I try to edúcate him so he doesnt feel good gambling in games like this. We play POE together and we got some cool looks, i try to explain him the diferences between supporting a f2p game he loves with the right shop choices, i think he understands the differences between those shops…..or that i tope.

[Hctaz]

People defending this shit you really should tell us how much stock you own.

The funny thing is that I actually own shares in Blizzard and I am out here criticizing them still LOL

[Fitsu]

There's nothing anti-consumer with a game that earned over $900k already. Obviously consumers are happy.

Putting everything else aside, this point alone is quite a foolish statement. To say that higher profits = consumer happniess is just not true. whether or not Diablo: Immortal does it many F2P games lessen the experience via intrusive game mechanics and then assault the consumer with sales pitches and predatory attacks to make a quick profit. Just because the consumer then spends that money does not mean the inclusion of these things are better for the consumer, they buy them in spite of this.

To go one further would you say the way casinos are set up aren't anti-consumer just because lots of people spend money there? Would you say Apples removal of extra hardware just to be sold seperately isn't anti-consumer? Or how many companies will have statements on their contracts to let them work their way out of making things right etc. isn't anti-consumer?

I wish the world was as simple as companies making money off of making their consumers happy, then this thread wouldn't exist (and yes I realise there are far worse grievances than monetisation in video games) but sadly we don't live in that fairy tail world. Very rarely does what's best for the consumer and what will make the most money line up.

[Ragu4]

I am so glad I never played any mobile games with these predatory RMT that assists with in-game power.

Now excuse me, I need to go play Lost Ark and buy honing materials on the Mari shop and gamble to see if I get another ilvl upgrade.

[Nymrohd]

Are many saying that though? To me this doesn't feel like a 'real' Diablo game, it's a mobile spinoff and a separate entity from the main franchise. I'm still going to check out D4.

If you actually like the world of Diablo, DI so far has had solid quests and a decent amount of lore. You can see everything without paying a dime.

- - - Updated - - -

Yep play 41 years (that's how long it would take to get a full set of legendary gems without spending a dime)....

Very long term goal....

People defending this shit you really should tell us how much stock you own.

May I ask why do you need six max rank 5 star legendary gems to enjoy the game?

[varren]

I wish i could be surprised there are people mazed enough to defend even Blizzards scummiest business tactics but at this point they could have all their customer information leaked and people would still rabidly defend their brand god.

Yeah it's insane. It will only get worse from here as p2w makes it's way into 'real' games instead of being regulated to mobile shovelware like it has in the past.

[Jtbrig7390]

May I ask why do you need six max rank 5 star legendary gems to enjoy the game?

Are you new to ARPG's or RPG's in general? Lots enjoy maxing out their character. People didn't expect it would cost most of their life or a full house down payment to achieve it in Diablo Immortal.

And that's on one character....

[rhorle]

Yeah it's insane. It will only get worse from here as p2w makes it's way into 'real' games instead of being regulated to mobile shovelware like it has in the past.

How are you defining real? Because pay to win isn't new to PC or Console games and it being included in Diablo Immortal isn't even the first for the Diablo franchise as Diablo 3 officially introduced it with the RMAH after the community grew to accept it with Diablo 2 black markets.

- - - Updated - - -

Are you new to ARPG's or RPG's in general? Lots enjoy maxing out their character. People didn't expect it would cost most of their life or a full house down payment to achieve it in Diablo Immortal.

There are people that are still trying for mounts in WoW after 15+ years. So its not like long time for RNG is a totally unexpected thing for people familiar with games.

[Jtbrig7390]

The funny thing is that I actually own shares in Blizzard and I am out here criticizing them still LOL

The people defending this stuff don't seem to understand the harm its going to bring to the gaming industry in general. I feel this will be Battlefront 2 (2.0) and more eyes are going to be on it.

The game is already banned in a few countries as it is.

[crusadernero]

That's just your narrative, you know. If it makes you feel better to fight for a good cause you've invented for yourself - that's understandable. Silly, but understandable.

What are you even talking about? Its not something i've made up. There are countries that already have banned certain games & loot box systems already. Theres also big things moving in the EU were alot of countries have teamed up to take action against this. I havent made anything up. I havent chosen the word "Predatory". I didnt need to, cause it is what is is.

These things move slowly, but sooner or later there will be comprehensive regulations towards gaming companies and the predatory practices many of them take part in.

If you havent even figured out by yourself that there are wheels in motion in big agencies & governments around the world(as in EU) about this, you are doing one(or both) of two things:

1. You live under a rock with limited access to internet and can only go to mmo-champion and read pre-picked forum threads
or
2. You are just trolling and looking for an argument cause thats your thing.

[rhorle]

The people defending this stuff don't seem to understand the harm its going to bring to the gaming industry in general. I feel this will be Battlefront 2 (2.0) and more eyes are going to be on it.

The harm caused by Diablo Immortal already exists in the industry. Blizzard and Netease have not done anything revolutionary with DI and it is silly to try to claim that it some kind of turning point or some kind of new harm to the industry. The fact that existing laws already ban certain types of games is proof that it isn't anything new. It might not help the industry but that is an entirely different thing to what you are saying.

[crusadernero]

I don't think that was his point, not that he actually seems to stand for anything. It's all just an exercise in pointless debate. Cherry pick the arguments one can make up some excuse for and ignore the rest. Trying to come to a mutual understanding would be like drawing blood from a stone. The conflict is the point.

Maybe. At this point, the best hope would actually be that hes just trolling, baiting and arguing for the sake of it. Atleast that would make some sense. People get off on that.

- - - Updated - - -

The harm caused by Diablo Immortal already exists in the industry. Blizzard and Netease have not done anything revolutionary with DI and it is silly to try to claim that it some kind of turning point or some kind of new harm to the industry. The fact that existing laws already ban certain types of games is proof that it isn't anything new. It might not help the industry but that is an entirely different thing to what you are saying.

You are correct on that, but this is Blizzard. Not a company most of us have ever heard of. Its one of the big ones. At the very least, that fact gives this more attention. If nothing else.

But then again, in a week or two everyone has moved on to something else and DI is left for the whales I guess.

[everydaygamer]

Yep play 41 years (that's how long it would take to get a full set of legendary gems without spending a dime)....

Very long term goal....

People defending this shit you really should tell us how much stock you own.

This is assuming the game remains static.

F2P games don't work like that. The goal post is constantly moved, catch up mechanics are introduced, events offer ways to boost your character that aren't normally available.

Your argument only works if the way the game is now is how it will always be and that simply isn't how f2p games work. They are about the long term investment, keeping players engaged over long periods of time, not milking players for all their worth in one short burst like you and others who are complaining seem to think.

If f2p gamers leave so do the whales and then the game dies. A good f2p game will work to avoid that.

[rhorle]

You are correct on that, but this is Blizzard. Not a company most of us have ever heard of. Its one of the big ones. At the very least, that fact gives this more attention. If nothing else. But then again, in a week or two everyone has moved on to something else and DI is left for the whales I guess.

This isn't even the first mobile predatory monetization for Blizzard. Hearthstone took that with its card packs. So you are basically admitting you are complaining just because of the Blizzard name rather then because of anything being done. Blizzard doing it may give more attention to you but not to the practices in the Industry. Mobile gaming and pay to win is a known concept is nothing new.

[Maljinwo]

Ok, I found something really stupid. And it's that PVP battlegrounds have no concept of fairness

You can get matched against lvl 60s while being lvl 46

Fun

[crusadernero]

This isn't even the first mobile predatory monetization for Blizzard. Hearthstone took that with its card packs. So you are basically admitting you are complaining just because of the Blizzard name rather then because of anything being done. Blizzard doing it may give more attention to you but not to the practices in the Industry. Mobile gaming and pay to win is a known concept is nothing new.

Of course its not, obviously. But this is Blizzard and this is a site that mostly focuses on wow. Since Blizzard now has released DI, its only natural to take part in discussions about it here. If any other thread pops up about this issue overall, im more than happy to be directed to that thread.