Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Beefhammer]

It's funny because most people only seem to complain because they feel encouraging this kind of game design will make it more common in the future. Of course this has gone on for years and as usual the "slippery slope" argument has proven to be complete nonsense.

No, they complain because Blizzard is big and right now Blizzard is the easy target. Lost ark is just as egregious and theis type of outrage and vitriol wasn't really a thing. And future/slippery slope? Shits been like this since the first Clash of Clans where you needed like 23 years free or $230k to unlock everything and that game released in 2012.

[Dhrizzle]

I know most video game fans don't care about this sort of thing anymore and would rather complain as if Blizzard will put them 100k in debt as soon as the game is downloaded, but FWIW the game seems pretty fun so far and I'm interested to see how they bridge the gap between 2 and 3.

[Darkeon]

No, they complain because Blizzard is big and right now Blizzard is the easy target. Lost ark is just as egregious and theis type of outrage and vitriol wasn't really a thing. And future/slippery slope? Shits been like this since the first Clash of Clans where you needed like 23 years free or $230k to unlock everything and that game released in 2012.

My brother in Christ, were you under a rock?

[RobertMugabe]

Are many saying that though?

Yes /10char

[Jerot]

They convinced you to pay $3k for cosmetics. You are just rationalizing it as not being exploited because you don't mind it. Note I am not saying buying cosmetics is inherently bad. Just that games manipulate people into spending money on them in various ways. We can't ignore that just because it isn't pay to win. If exploitation in game design is bad then it should be bad even with out pay to win, right?

And? That is what happens with a subscription. You stop paying and you don't get the rewards.

No it doesn't. Hearthstone came out in 2014 and is pay to win and gambling. Isn't it funny how you and others always over look that in order to complain. The experience in Diablo Immortal is not sub par. It is your standard ARPG RNG grind game. Having short cuts or boosts to that grind is not a sub par experience because the core game play doesn't change. You've already stated that ARPG games are heavily gambling focused so you can't back down now.

DI exploits players into spending by several means. They don't show you all the potential costs upfront. You unlock more pay systems as you progress. Starting with transactions as low as $1. which gives you too few points to actually purchase anything without spending more.

You are forced into the cash store every day when you collect your login bonus. Which is presented to you the same way a bundle is when you purchase it for cash.

They create pressure to compete by showing you how players perform better on leaderboards and in pvp when they have gem ranks you can only achieve by paying. Even after paying for your monthly bonuses you are required to login all 30 days to collect them, and missed days you paid for are lost. At no point do you see the full cost of upgrading your gems or the odds of receiving the gem you want at your desired rank.

Because they wouldn't sell a single crest if people immediately realized the full cost of upgrading a single character.

PoE exploited me into buying items about as much as a grocery store exploited me into buying milk.

Hearthstone is modeling the TCG market, it's a completely different game with different monetization. And it also doesn't cost tens of thousands of dollars to have a perfect deck like it does to have a perfect character in DI.

[Ghost of Cow]

May I ask why do you need six max rank 5 star legendary gems to enjoy the game?

Entitlement and a severe lack of self-control.

It exists, so they think they need to have it. Even in a game that they supposedly hate so much.

You see the same thing in games like Genshin. People talking as if they had to spend that money. That the game reached out and forced them to. Then they rationalize it by slapping labels on themselves like "collector" or "completionist" as if that carries some deeper meaning and removes responsibility for their own choices.

[Beefhammer]

My brother in Christ, were you under a rock?

Not even close to what's going on now.

[xenogear3]

For anyone is interested in, here is a list of bundles and services.
1 Battle Pass $5 or $15 to get 14 ranks which can skip the leveling grind
2 Boon of Plenty $10
3 Prodigy's Path $20
4 7 Dungeon Bundles $1, $1, $2, $5, $7, $10, $20
5 a 5-star legendary gem $25 $50 $100

If you buy them all, it is about $300.
Remember, you lose money if you don't buy them all !

I am at level 52. There may be one more dungeon bundle for $40 or $50.

[Jerot]

Entitlement and a severe lack of self-control.

It exists, so they think they need to have it. Even in a game that they supposedly hate so much.

The point of the entire genre is to chase a perfect character and to grind for loot. You don't put that behind a wall of gambling with real money, it fundamentally changes what the game is.

Selling power is idiotic. Imagine if you could pay to respawn chess pieces, or pay for better performing guns in an FPS. You are putting zero effort into creating value for the player and relying on the inherent value of game piece to drive revenue. And then imagine the cost was determined by a dice roll on top of that, and it was possible to get nothing in return for your money.

What kind of idiot defends something like that, honestly. If your only argument is we don't have to pay. Well you don't have to read this thread or post here if you don't like our opinions. Feel free to take your own advice.

If you buy them all, it is about $300.

After that you might have 2 or 3 of the legendary gems you want if you're lucky. To get the rest and level them up to max, your options are spend a couple of decades grinding or pay six figures.

And by next season you'll have virtually nothing to show for it. Great value /s

The point isn't even needing perfect gear to play, but it is a reason a lot of people will keep playing, to continue improving their characters. It shows how fundamentally broken the progression system is. You devalue months worth of grinding by selling the same amount of rewards for $15 and 6 minutes of grind.

[Relapses]

Today on why is this free to play mobile game a free to play mobile game....

Diablo Immortal a free to play mobile game acting like a free to play mobile game HOW DARE THEY

We've known about the way this game would be monetized from the jump and yet 90% of the responses to this thread are, "lol greedy Blizzard."

FWIW, I agree. It's greedy. But at this point complaining about mobile game monetization is comparable to whining about the federal government taking money out of your paycheck for taxes.

[Amnaught]

The game has a lot of details and features so they have to slowly unlock them for you as you progress. Otherwise new players would be overwhelmed by all the information.


It's just the game letting you know that an option is available.


-It's not a predatory business model. There's nothing unethical about it.
-Nobody is forced to play and nobody is entitled to their preferred game experience unless they created the game.
-You can experience most of the game for free.
-As far as I know F2P players can still achieve almost all of the same things but at a slower rate.

It's a predatory business model. They're banking on child-whales.

[rhorle]

DI exploits players into spending by several means. They don't show you all the potential costs upfront. You unlock more pay systems as you progress. Starting with transactions as low as $1. which gives you too few points to actually purchase anything without spending more.

What you call "more" is in fact the same system. Bundles that offer discounts. Having a free daily box in the same store as cash purchases isn't a trick. It is just using the existing UI instead of creating yet another one for no reason. They also have the daily first kill. It actually would be nicer if DI cut down on the multiple UI's and merged more of them together.

They create pressure to compete by showing you how players perform better on leaderboards and in pvp when they have gem ranks you can only achieve by paying.

They don't highlight the gem ranks of people on the leader board. So you have no way of knowing if they paid their way there or actually earned it. Sure eventually a whale might get on there but this is you interjecting things in to make it sound worse. Leader boards are also standard in a lot of games. Even those that don't have pay to win. And yes daily log in bonuses usually require you to log in daily whether you pay for expanded access or you not.

You can easily see the cost of upgrading gems as you play the game. Rank 2 is 1 gem piece. Rank 3 is 15. Also people have known it has a high cost and they have still sold crests, strange right?

PoE exploited me into buying items about as much as a grocery store exploited me into buying milk.

You equating video game cosmetics to an essential product (food) for survival shows how much developers have conditioned you to spend on cosmetics.. It isn't something you needed or required at all. They played on the "not power" angle to get people to spend more in the cash shop. Like I said though there is nothing wrong with cosmetics. If a person wants to spend their money then that is perfectly fine but lets not pretend that games are less predatory with cosmetics then they are with "power". PoE even uses bundles and sales to get more cosmetics sold.

It is also hilarious how you make excuses for Hearthstone because it models the TCG market when Diablo Immortal is modeling the mobile game market with their bundles and other monetization systems. Yet one is accepted by you while the other is hated, strange right? It shouldn't matter if you have spend thousands or tens of thousands if the paying large amounts "to win" is the problem, right? You also don't have to pay to fully optimize your character. So why are you upset that a person with a lot of money can spend that money?

[james2400]

Fun game but one of the most aggressive P2W games i have EVER seen this puts Lost Ark microtransactions to shame its not even close.

Every aspect of the game is tied behind a MTX the discrepancy between a F2P and a P2W player is we are talking about years compared to minutes LOL.

Popping up with a 800% extra value page for under 1 dollar is really really cringe.

Its obscene you can even manipulate the amount of loot you get from a chest and the difference is HUGE we are talking about legendaries popping compared to the odd blue and gold.

[rhorle]

After that you might have 2 or 3 of the legendary gems you want if you're lucky. To get the rest and level them up to max, your options are spend a couple of decades grinding or pay six figures.

Why is that a problem? Isn't the entire point of continuing to play an ARPG past its story to grind for character optimization? Your next paragraph shows it is about jealousy, envy, or whatever emotion. That a person who buys their way didn't have to work for it like you did. Big deal. Don't be so concerned with what other people do and just learn to enjoy your own time spent playing the game.

Would it be nice if pay to win was gone from all games? Certainly. Would it be nice if it was cheaper? Sure.

[MiiiMiii]

I have gotten like 20 hours of fun gameplay out of it spending 0$.

I will probably keep playing it once in a while in car rides etc. on phone.

Pretty good value compared to some 60$ games I buy and I hate them and stop playing after 1-2 hours

[Unholyground]

There are some loud voices on the internet that paint micro transactions as awful, but the reality of the matter is the vast majority of people that actually play these games don't care and those micro transaction make tons of money, so there's not really an incentive to do away with them.

I'm a big fan of Genshin Impact, so I follow a lot of content creators/cosplayers/fellow players in the community, and a very surprisingly large chunk of them had literally never played a video game before Genshin Impact, and now have spent hundred of hours in the game, many of them now getting into the nitty gritty theory crafting of the game.

These types of games appeal to a very large chunk of people, and will continue to be successful. They are not targeting the audience that calls themselves "gamers" even if the IP is a franchise that typically has appealed to core gamers. But the game companies that make these games that appeal to core gamers would be absolutely stupid NOT to follow that revenue source.

At the end of the day, for me, it's just a moderately engaging, diablo themed way to waste five minutes on my phone whenever the situations calls for it.

They should be required to have an option in games like this to disable all store related prompts in the settings. It would make everyone happy.

[Ghost of Cow]

I have gotten like 20 hours of fun gameplay out of it spending 0$.

I will probably keep playing it once in a while in car rides etc. on phone.

Pretty good value compared to some 60$ games I buy and I hate them and stop playing after 1-2 hours

No, you poor fool! You have been preyed upon!

[Jerot]

What you call "more" is in fact the same system. Bundles that offer discounts. You are shown all costs up front at the time of purchase. Having a free daily box in the same store as cash purchases isn't a trick. It is just using the existing UI instead of creating yet another one for no reason. They also have the daily first kill.



They don't highlight the gem ranks of people on the leaderboard. So you have no way of knowing if they paid their way there or actually earned it. Sure eventually a whale might get on there but this is you interjecting things in to make it worse then it actually is. Leaderboards are also standard in most games even those that don't have pay to win. And yes daily log in bonuses usually require you to log in daily whether you pay for expanded access or you not.

You can easily see the cost of upgrading gems as you play the game. Rank 2 is 1 gem piece. Rank 3 is 15. Also people have known it has a high cost and they have still sold crests, strange right? So your very argument is proven to be a lie. People that are willing to do whatever it takes to be the best often don't care about the cost. Either they pay it or they don't.



You equating cosmetics to an essential product for survival shows how much they've exploited. It isn't something you needed or required at all. They played on the "not power" angle to get people to spend more in the cash shop. It is also hilarious how you make excuses for Hearthstone because it models the TCG market when Diablo Immortal is modeling the mobile game market with their bundles and other monetization systems. Yet one is accepted by you while the other is hated, strange right?

It shouldn't matter if you have spend thousands or tens of thousands if the paying large amounts "to win" is the problem, right? You also don't have to pay to fully optimize your character. So why are you upset that a person with a lot of money can spend that money?

Bad faith argument after bad faith argument. And you never actually answered the question because you can't.

Milk isn't a necessity for everyone, but I could have replaced the example with candy bars, same difference.

They aren't just reusing the UI for the daily, its specifically designed that way to get you into the store every day. The first kill of the day and free battle pass rewards aren't given the same treatment though they could have been just as easily. If you don't think it was intentional to make the process mimic buying a bundle, you're gullible at best.

You can inspect their gear and see everything they have. Unless you paid its extremely unlikely you're leveling gems much on your 3 free per month.

The next gem upgrade is hidden behind getting the current one.

You just said some people are willing to pay to win no matter the cost. So why isn't it balanced around paying $10,000 to max out, or $1,000, or $100. Not six figures. Its just a disgusting amount of money compared to even the shittiest low effort pay to win mobile garbage.

Though $1 would be too much in my opinion, charge for the game or for cosmetics, power isn't value.

[Darkeon]

Not even close to what's going on now.

Was such a shitshow that the game is now on life support and bots. What are you on about?

[Dakara]

When it comes to Diablo games, I can see why people are raging.
But to be honest, this is basically the “norm” when it comes to mobile games… and actually, as a F2P player, it’s been better than most other mobile games where you run out of “energy” after 20 minutes and then need to either wait hours for it to recharge, or buy gems with cash which you use to buy energy.

Blizzard really have screwed up here by going after the money with one of their existing, hugely successful IP’s and then taking taking the mobile model over to a PC version.

But at the same time, when it comes to go the predatory nature of mobile games, Blizzard are late to the party.