Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Jerot]

What you call "more" is in fact the same system. Bundles that offer discounts. You are shown all costs up front at the time of purchase. Having a free daily box in the same store as cash purchases isn't a trick. It is just using the existing UI instead of creating yet another one for no reason. They also have the daily first kill.



They don't highlight the gem ranks of people on the leaderboard. So you have no way of knowing if they paid their way there or actually earned it. Sure eventually a whale might get on there but this is you interjecting things in to make it worse then it actually is. Leaderboards are also standard in most games even those that don't have pay to win. And yes daily log in bonuses usually require you to log in daily whether you pay for expanded access or you not.

You can easily see the cost of upgrading gems as you play the game. Rank 2 is 1 gem piece. Rank 3 is 15. Also people have known it has a high cost and they have still sold crests, strange right? So your very argument is proven to be a lie. People that are willing to do whatever it takes to be the best often don't care about the cost. Either they pay it or they don't.



You equating cosmetics to an essential product for survival shows how much they've exploited. It isn't something you needed or required at all. They played on the "not power" angle to get people to spend more in the cash shop. It is also hilarious how you make excuses for Hearthstone because it models the TCG market when Diablo Immortal is modeling the mobile game market with their bundles and other monetization systems. Yet one is accepted by you while the other is hated, strange right?

It shouldn't matter if you have spend thousands or tens of thousands if the paying large amounts "to win" is the problem, right? You also don't have to pay to fully optimize your character. So why are you upset that a person with a lot of money can spend that money?

Bad faith argument after bad faith argument. And you never actually answered the question because you can't.

Milk isn't a necessity for everyone, but I could have replaced the example with candy bars, same difference.

They aren't just reusing the UI for the daily, its specifically designed that way to get you into the store every day. The first kill of the day and free battle pass rewards aren't given the same treatment though they could have been just as easily. If you don't think it was intentional to make the process mimic buying a bundle, you're gullible at best.

You can inspect their gear and see everything they have. Unless you paid its extremely unlikely you're leveling gems much on your 3 free per month.

The next gem upgrade is hidden behind getting the current one.

You just said some people are willing to pay to win no matter the cost. So why isn't it balanced around paying $10,000 to max out, or $1,000, or $100. Not six figures. Its just a disgusting amount of money compared to even the shittiest low effort pay to win mobile garbage.

Though $1 would be too much in my opinion, charge for the game or for cosmetics, power isn't value.

[Darkeon]

Not even close to what's going on now.

Was such a shitshow that the game is now on life support and bots. What are you on about?

[Dakara]

When it comes to Diablo games, I can see why people are raging.
But to be honest, this is basically the “norm” when it comes to mobile games… and actually, as a F2P player, it’s been better than most other mobile games where you run out of “energy” after 20 minutes and then need to either wait hours for it to recharge, or buy gems with cash which you use to buy energy.

Blizzard really have screwed up here by going after the money with one of their existing, hugely successful IP’s and then taking taking the mobile model over to a PC version.

But at the same time, when it comes to go the predatory nature of mobile games, Blizzard are late to the party.

[rhorle]

Bad faith argument after bad faith argument. And you never actually answered the question because you can't.

The last post I quoted from you didn't have any a question in it. At least not one with punctuation so lets not pretend that you saying I'm arguing in bad faith is anything but moving the goal posts or projection on your part.

They aren't just reusing the UI for the daily, its specifically designed that way to get you into the store every day. The first kill of the day and free battle pass rewards aren't given the same treatment though they could have been just as easily. If you don't think it was intentional to make the process mimic buying a bundle, you're gullible at best.

The battle pass has the paid ones right underneath the free ones. So lets not make up facts here. In no way does it mimic buying a bundle. Is it designed to promote bundles? Sure. That still isn't something that is bad. Do you complain when the store has a "Free sample" next to paid products as well? It is basic marketing that is no worse when done in anything.

You can inspect their gear and see everything they have. Unless you paid its extremely unlikely you're leveling gems much on your 3 free per month.

You can craft gems. I already have six gems at rank 2 just from leveling up and doing rifts. That isn't that bad for a game that just came out and is meant to be a gear grinding game. You are focused to much on the paying aspect and ignoring how the entire point of the Diablo ARPG's since D2 is grinding out gear. Will I ever get max rank? Probably not because I'll likely stop playing the same as I never got max gear in D3 with or without the RMAH.

You just said some people are willing to pay to win no matter the cost. So why isn't it balanced around paying $10,000 to max out, or $1,000, or $100. Not six figures. Its just a disgusting amount of money compared to even the shittiest low effort pay to win mobile garbage.

Because those are the values Blizzard and Netease decided on? Could it be lower? Certainly but that is irrelevant to anything here since you just said that $1 would be to much in your opinion. Even cosmetics something you've said is perfectly fine and spent $3k on in other games. So this really comes down to you hating on Diablo Immortal for whatever reason and moving the arbitrary line of what is acceptable based on that dislike.

[Doombringer]

No, they complain because Blizzard is big and right now Blizzard is the easy target. Lost ark is just as egregious and theis type of outrage and vitriol wasn't really a thing. And future/slippery slope? Shits been like this since the first Clash of Clans where you needed like 23 years free or $230k to unlock everything and that game released in 2012.

Somehow you missed the glaringly obvious difference between Lost Ark and Diablo here, so I'll spell it out for you.

Lost Ark came out of nowhere and was developed from the ground up to be what it is. A Diablo-esque action RPG looter with real money transactions.

Note I said "Diablo-esque" because you evidently missed that Diablo created and/or refined this genre and it did it without shameless cash grabs, establishing a massive fan base since D1's launch in 199-freaking-6.

So yeah, fans of this GENRE and fans of this exact game, Diablo, and its entire history, have every right to be outraged and vitriolic about something they love, something that was pure and wholesome, just a damn good game and gameplay loop, being strapped into a cash milking machine by a company they once also loved.

Nobody that's a fan of Diablo and outraged about the path the game has taken (since D3's RMAH to be honest) gives a damn about Clash of Clans, Rift Shadow Legends or Lost Ark ... they care when that kind of monetization P2W design comes to the one game that started it all and they'd hoped would be free of the bullshit.

[james2400]

Lol Rhole just stop dude its not worth dying alone on the hill.

Its a fun game but the MTX is beyond obscene the comparison between P2W and F2P power is far to much.

[rhorle]

So yeah, fans of this GENRE and fans of this exact game, Diablo, and its entire history, have every right to be outraged and vitriolic about something they love, something that was pure and wholesome, just a damn good game and gameplay loop, being strapped into a cash milking machine by a company they once also loved.

You mean the same fans that developed such a large real money black market for Diablo 2 that Blizzard decided to try and legitimize and protect the fans by introducing the RMAH in D3? This also isn't a "mainline" Diablo game so treating it as such is silly. It is still a fun mobile game that has the same basic game play loop of Diablo 2 and 3. It just has the option of paying but it isn't required at all.

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Lol Rhole just stop dude its not worth dying alone on the hill. Its a fun game but the MTX is beyond obscene the comparison between P2W and F2P power is far to much.

I agree that the micro transactions could be less. That doesn't mean that the comments people are making are accurate or they should be allowed to just rant about anything just because it is cool to hate. The power gap between free and paying only exists for PvP. Which is certainly a big focus since the Immortals vs Shadow mechanics are all about PvP but it remains to be seen just how much that power gap will be.

Most of the outrage is just outrage for the sake of it because influencers (streamers) have been manipulating their fans into hating on it just because.

[munkeyinorbit]

Which is somewhat worrying for Diablo Immortal. Because games like Overwatch are still perfectly playable in Belgium and Netherlands, just with lootboxes disabled (or is it just the ability to buy them being disabled?).

Diablo Immortal is not offering such a choice, meaning that the lootboxes are such an integral part of the gaming experience, that there is no disabling them. The game is straight-up banned as a result. Makes me really not interested to even check the game.

But you are free to do so if you want. For free.

[james2400]

You mean the same fans that developed such a large real money black market for Diablo 2 that Blizzard decided to try and legitimize and protect the fans by introducing the RMAH in D3? This also isn't a "mainline" Diablo game so treating it as such is silly. It is still a fun mobile game that has the same basic game play loop of Diablo 2 and 3. It just has the option of paying but it isn't required at all.

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I agree that the micro transactions could be less. That doesn't mean that the comments people are making are accurate or they should be allowed to just rant about anything just because it is cool to hate. The power gap between free and paying only exists for PvP. Which is certainly a big focus since the Immortals vs Shadow mechanics are all about PvP but it remains to be seen just how much that power gap will be.

Most of the outrage is just outrage for the sake of it because influencers (streamers) have been manipulating their fans into hating on it just because.

Dont think its manipulation its actually that bad towards the later levels.

Dont get me wrong if your happy to play the game knowing you are significantly! weakened compared to someone who spends money then its fine each to their own.

I tend to akin their monetization towards being borderline unethical but thats just my opinion.

[rhorle]

Dont get me wrong if your happy to play the game knowing you are significantly! weakened compared to someone who spends money then its fine each to their own.

So? Why does it matter how strong you are compared to how strong others are? It has yet to be shown how beneficial that gap will be in the long run for the competitive aspect of the game. If you don't care about that though then there is no impact on your game play. You can grind out gear and pretend their is no option to pay to skip the grind.

I made it level 60 and I am enjoying Hell 1. In Battlegrounds I'm not completely destroyed though you can't really tell what gear level the random opponents have. It has no impact on the game play loop. Would it be nice to be able to get gratification of drops as fast as those who pay with out paying myself? Certainly but I doubt I'd play long enough for it to really matter either way.

[james2400]

So? Why does it matter how strong you are compared to how strong others are? It has yet to be shown how beneficial that gap will be in the long run for the competitive aspect of the game. If you don't care about that though then there is no impact on your game play. You can grind out gear and pretend their is no option to pay to skip the grind.

I made it level 60 and I am enjoying Hell 1. In Battlegrounds I'm not completely destroyed though you can't really tell what gear level the random opponents have. It has no impact on the game play loop. Would it be nice to be able to get gratification of drops as fast as those who pay with out paying myself? Certainly but I doubt I'd play long enough for it to really matter either way.

Well you get to a point where you wont be able to progress anymore without spending money so all the player investment you put into your character is null and void.

One thing i think they should do is if you do buy cosmetics currently they are only tied to that character and to that server! they are not account wide.

Fun game could of been a real hit and good will to their reputation if they kept most of the MTX out of the PC version.

[rhorle]

Well you get to a point where you wont be able to progress anymore without spending money so all the player investment you put into your character is null and void.

There is no point like that. Without spending any money you can go all the way to Paragon 600 or higher as I'm not sure the max. You might not have the highest rank gems but you'll be able to progress and do everything with out having to pay at all. They do have the ability to change class and they have said you'll keep class-specific stuff if you go back to a class as well.

The PC version is the exact same as the mobile version because of cross play so it is impossible to keep micro transactions out of it. The cross play is one of the strengths as it allows you to play at a PC if you can and keep progress and switch to mobile when needed. It really isn't worth paying for much as a PC game anyways and never will be as it is a simple mobile port. Just like Hearthstone.

[Cthulhu 2020]

So this is just Diablo 3, but with a new story and massive pay to win.

So much of this game is literally just copy pasted from D3. It's so sad that they slapped the Diablo skin on such an egregiously pay to win game. And the worst part is there are people actually playing and defending this shit. SMH my head. It's a sad day to see a game franchise I love die. Not in reality, but in spirit. The RMAH in D3 put it on its death bed, and it gained SOME health when the RMAH was removed, but D Immortal is just cash shop garbage.

[Nymrohd]

Are you new to ARPG's or RPG's in general? Lots enjoy maxing out their character. People didn't expect it would cost most of their life or a full house down payment to achieve it in Diablo Immortal.

And that's on one character....

I see it as a mobile game first though. It's a time waster for people to play in the bathroom or on public transit on the way to work or back home. That's what they were made for. It definitely has elements to keep you logged in for hours at a time and yeah then you'd be tempted to spend. But that's not the market for mobile games isit?

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Which is certainly a big focus since the Immortals vs Shadow mechanics are all about PvP but it remains to be seen just how much that power gap will be.

Actually immortals vs shadows are not that much about PvP. There are PvP elements but I won the SHadow lottery yesterday and there is plenty of PvE in being a SHadow; you get some extra quests with contracts, a very fast challenge rift in the path of blood as well as vault raids (there are other things but haven't had a chance to check them yet).

[munkeyinorbit]

Hate that I'm even commenting on a thread like this but if you think every adult is well-informed and educated enough to know a bad deal when they see it just look at AVERAGE intelligence. Half of the people you interact with are below that.

People can dump a lot of money, to them, on a game and 'whale' with their cc and make bad decisions. Yes, you can't stop stupid but you should make it harder for the people looking for these suckers.

Defending obvious game decisions based solely on monetization, which I get corporations are required by law to pursue, should have other laws and regulations to prevent the AVERAGE person from falling victim to a honey pot.

Average intelligence is a range. Someone who is actually below that range only accounts for 22.5% of people you could meet if there was no bias. Anyone who finished high school would be able to tell you this.

As for personal responsibility, it is not up to the corporation, it is up to the government. The government (is supposed to) regulate what is safe and what isnt for its citizens. Not blizzard. If you spin that blizzard is using unethical practices to make money, except for the two countries that have banned it, then you would be factually wrong, Society has decided that loot boxes and the like are ethical. You may disagree and in the coming years society may agree with you eventually, but for now Blizzard has done nothing wrong or unethical, except for those 2 countries.

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I hope the game gets banned in the US just like Belgium and the Netherlands. I've never contacted an elected official over anything before, but I think I will in this case.

At least you're doing something about it. Good luck buddy. Short of violent revolution, you're probably doing the right thing. Far better than the hysteria and misinformation in this thread.

[rhorle]

Actually immortals vs shadows are not that much about PvP. There are PvP elements but I won the SHadow lottery yesterday and there is plenty of PvE in being a SHadow; you get some extra quests with contracts, a very fast challenge rift in the path of blood as well as vault raids (there are other things but haven't had a chance to check them yet).

The Vault eventually has the Immortal players trying to stop shadow players. The Shadow War that determines what Dark Clans are top 10 to challenge the Immortals is PvP. And the final battle between Shadows and Immortal to try and "dethrone" the immortals is PvP. The contracts, 90% of vault, and the trial of blood are all PvE though. I'm not sure if the battleground PvP debuff applies to all the Shadow vs Immortal stuff and I'm not entirely sure all it does to reduce things on other players.

As for PvE the power difference does seem to be there as a paragon 9 player with 3 rank 6 gems just carried a level 55 and a level 60 (me) in a 4-player level 24 challenge rift. We are rank 3 on the leader board. But there doesn't seem to be that many actually running them. Highest solo is 43 but rank 2 is 25. 4-player rank 1 and 2 are level 25. Not that I care about the leader board I just accepted a random invite from the dark clan I joined and went along for the ride.

[Elim Garak]

They should be required to have an option in games like this to disable all store related prompts in the settings. It would make everyone happy.

Required? Like in EU where they are required to put notices in your face about Privacy etc. I've yet to see anyone HAPPY about having to tap thru those.

[Nymrohd]

Required? Like in EU where they are required to put notices in your face about Privacy etc. I've yet to see anyone HAPPY about having to tap thru those.

I'm pretty happy about that. So here is one person.

[Iain]

Game got banned in the Netherlands and Belgium on day one. Well, maybe calling it a 'game' is too generous when paying cash is the only prestige.

[Elim Garak]

I'm pretty happy about that. So here is one person.

What in particular are you happy about?

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Game got banned in the Netherlands and Belgium on day one. Well, maybe calling it a 'game' is too generous when paying cash is the only prestige.

I'm sure everyone in those countries is ecstatic about that.