Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Mendzia]

Are you saying he didn't have fun? Or that blizzard cares for the motivation behind the revenue increase?

I dunno if hes having fun.
Do not ask me that.
It is probably middle ground: from one side it is so sad how P2W this game is and from other side having ridiculously OP character due $$ and oneshotting people that can be fun i guess?...
He also said he will make YT video with his thoughts pretty soon so we will know.

I might also bet a horse if I had one - that that stream led to people downloading and playing the game - that's free user acquisition, also some of them might have paid for a starter pack. Big thanks to Quin69!

You clearly do not know his content then.
It is more like 'investment' as he has +20k viewers daily now.
It is similar to YT people buying new cars... and then destoying it and uploading video from that to get even more money from views.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's working with Blizzard as influencer - doing the outrage PR campaign.

He is definitely not as he said many times that PoE is much better than anything related to Diablo now.

[Elim Garak]

I dunno if hes having fun.
Do not ask me that.
It is probably middle ground: from one side it is so sad how P2W this game is and from other side having ridiculously OP character due $$ and oneshotting people that can be fun i guess?...
He also said he will make YT video with his thoughts pretty soon so we will know.

Obviously. More views, more money for him. I guarantee you he didn't lose any money paying to win. In fact he probably made bank.

You clearly do not know his content then.

I don't even know who he is. And I don't need to.
The Youtuber business model is not a secret.

It is more like 'investment' as he has +20k viewers daily now.

Yeah, it's a business.

It is similar to YT people buying new cars... and then destoying it and uploading video from that to get even more money from views.

Yeah, and they are not LOSING ANY MONEY DOING IT.

He is definitely not as he said many times that PoE is much better than anything related to Diablo now.

Haha. It's ironic how Blizzard is slammed for doing anything for money. But a youtuber doing the same thing is a trusted individual.

[GreenJesus]

I dunno man, I like playing games for free. And you have to remember the primary market for mobile gaming is places like China where many people can't afford to pay upfront.

Cant afford to pay up front, but will pay hundreds of dollars to casino roll for a 2D jpeg in Grand Line or Fate GO? How does that make any sense?

Regarding streamers whaling, it does shine a light on the issue. Asmon did a fully pumped 10 legendary crest run he bought with money and then a F2P no crest run. The p2W run had 10 legendaries drop... the f2p run had a single blue item drop.. it is good to be able to show people the glaring difference in game play. However some of these streamers are clearly just doing it for farming stream content and more reddit posts on LSF to argue with.

[Kumorii]

He clearly stated that he is doing it for stream content and pushing the P2W stuff to the limit to see how really bad it is.
Two birds, one stone.

Not really two birds in one stone then. Because it supports the model.
In fact I would argue streamers doing this over and over and over again is why it becomes more and more egregious. Players watching them and donating then to spend money on this helps as well.

If you want this model to be gone, you only have to ignore the shop and also ignore streamers who try to profit over buying shit from the store.

Buying from it to prove that it's bad is like you buying an overpriced house to prove its overpriced. You just bought it, so clearly it's not the wrong price.
Clearly the store isn't bad, since he paid for it. I don't think developers care if people pay to prove a point, only that they pay.


------------------------------------

I have to point out though... the quality of armors and the high detail on it is crazy for being a mobile game. It's much better than D3.

[crusadernero]

Stop moving the goal posts. No one said that it can't be discussed. It was about specific claims you, and others, were making that were not true.

What goal post? Cant one discuss DI without looking at the bigger picture? Or is the issue here that everyone that dislikes this practice also must bring up every company & game that has ever been made that also is predatory and p2w? Is that it? Since I didnt mention others, my points are not valid?

Everyone knows these predatory practices aint new. Everyone knows Blizzard has done it in other games too, even to a certain extend in wow. Everyone knoiws this wont be the last game either of this style.

So whats the deal here? Is your argument that if we talk about it, one gotta first rinse up every p2w game there is in order to speak?

Or is it because since someone else has already done this practice(or worse), theres no reason to talk about DI?

- - - Updated - - -

Pretty sure a culture will develop in this game where the P2W people are outcast. Like look at this guy’s gems, oh he’s P2w so it doesn’t count and no one cares.

Id bet on the opposite. Either pay up or step aside.

- - - Updated - - -

Cant afford to pay up front, but will pay hundreds of dollars to casino roll for a 2D jpeg in Grand Line or Fate GO? How does that make any sense?

Regarding streamers whaling, it does shine a light on the issue. Asmon did a fully pumped 10 legendary crest run he bought with money and then a F2P no crest run. The p2W run had 10 legendaries drop... the f2p run had a single blue item drop.. it is good to be able to show people the glaring difference in game play. However some of these streamers are clearly just doing it for farming stream content and more reddit posts on LSF to argue with.

Then the game is working as intended. By showing his viewers this, i'd bet many of them went on and spendt some money on the game for a couple of legendaries.

[Dhrizzle]

Cant afford to pay up front, but will pay hundreds of dollars to casino roll for a 2D jpeg in Grand Line or Fate GO? How does that make any sense?

Really, every potential customer in China and other less well developed nations is doing that, all billions of them?

Regarding streamers whaling, it does shine a light on the issue. Asmon did a fully pumped 10 legendary crest run he bought with money and then a F2P no crest run. The p2W run had 10 legendaries drop... the f2p run had a single blue item drop.. it is good to be able to show people the glaring difference in game play. However some of these streamers are clearly just doing it for farming stream content and more reddit posts on LSF to argue with.

I've really never cared much how other people play games, whether it's using cheats or mods to make the game easier or just the options built into the game. At least with "freemium" games people are paying for an easier life which means I get the game for free.

[bloodkin]

Funnyhow so many people are more than willing to excuse absolutely terrible and predatory practices by corporations, as if this won't escalate any further.

The more you tolerate asinine behavior, the further it will escalate.

[Elim Garak]

Funnyhow so many people are more than willing to excuse absolutely terrible and predatory practices by corporations, as if this won't escalate any further.

The more you tolerate asinine behavior, the further it will escalate.

Do you want fries with that? We are having a special. Also free refills if you buy super large.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Ah yes, the "You don't agree with my take, so you must clearly be a Blizzard plant" arguement. It's an effort in futility to both argue it, and argue against it.

You can't justifiably prove that they are a plant, and they can't change your mind otherwise, because to do so would undermine your arguement.

Why is it people always do this kind of behavior? Do you realise that people can, will, and do have different thoughts and opinions on the same subject matter as you?

They're making light of it because the people trying to be Blizzard apologists for Diablo Immortal's monetization are making astoundingly stupid arguments, and this vacuous "everyone has an opinion so stop being flippant" mentality which you appear to have isn't even really worth addressing outside of mockery. Everyone is free to have an opinion, but if your opinion is stupid, you're obviously going to get blowback. Predatory monetization like lootboxes has a history of disproportionately affecting people with gambling addictions or IGD, as well as a history of using algorithmically determined drops (i.e.: increasing or decreasing drop rates by trying to maximize money from users) in some games, these companies also disingenuously reporting the value of items on the shop, and will run faux sales in the store (i.e.: limited time offers, cutting the price of items when the "discount" price is the actual price, etc.), alongside a myriad of other problems. There are two sides in the lootbox predatory monetization debate: (1) those who are against predatory monetization; and (2) people who don't know what they're talking about.

[Shaile]

its amazing how quickly the subverted useful id1ots are jumping to defend this predatory and scam like type of "free" game business models thats directly counter productive to the quality of the game itself and its gameplay. they really succeeded in the propaganda and indoctrination that f2p is a good ethical and decent business model instead of borderline scam and fraud.

[Elim Garak]

There are two sides in the lootbox debate: (1) those who are against predatory monetization; and (2) people who don't know what they're talking about.

That's racist, sexist and transphobic. Binarity is out of fashion and everything is on the spectrum, including fake dichotomies.

[Nymrohd]

They're making light of it because the people trying to be Blizzard apologists for Diablo Immortal's monetization are making astoundingly stupid arguments, and this vacuous "everyone has an opinion so stop being flippant" mentality which you appear to have isn't even really worth addressing outside of mockery. Everyone is free to have an opinion, but if your opinion is stupid, you're obviously going to get blowback. Predatory monetization like lootboxes has a history of disproportionately affecting people with gambling addictions or IGD, as well as a history of using algorithmically determined drops (i.e.: increasing or decreasing drop rates by trying to maximize money from users) in some games, these companies also disingenuously reporting the value of items on the shop, and will run faux sales in the store (i.e.: limited time offers, cutting the price of items when the "discount" price is the actual price, etc.), alongside a myriad of other problems. There are two sides in the lootbox debate: (1) those who are against predatory monetization; and (2) people who don't know what they're talking about.

Again though. The psychological mechanism that triggers addictive behaviour in people susceptible to such behaviour when it comes to lootboxes is entirely dependent on the instantaneous gratification afforded by lootboxes. Games that use lootboxes will also often offer a few lootboxes for free to get people hooked.
Diablo Immortal does not feature lootboxes. It is very heavily P2W (really, there is not going to be any natural competition in PvP or PvE leaderboards; significant chunks of power can be bought. It does feature elements that amount to gambling (namely Crests) but not in a way that triggers the response that lootboxes do. It is also not that persistent about the shop. While leveling you will get a small number of popups about bundles becoming available but those pop ups are not intrusive, at least not in the PC screen. The game does not constantly direct you to the shop like other games do. You can still complete almost every activity in the game without paying a bit (and yeah I even did several BGs; there were people who probably spend money in the game but I think I encountered only one whale who really felt overpowered).

[Mendzia]

Obviously. More views, more money for him. I guarantee you he didn't lose any money paying to win. In fact he probably made bank.

Yeah, it's a business.

Yeah, and they are not LOSING ANY MONEY DOING IT.

The Youtuber business model is not a secret.

Yes... i've just presented that conclusion...

I don't even know who he is. And I don't need to.

That explains everything why you don't why he did that...

Haha. It's ironic how Blizzard is slammed for doing anything for money. But a youtuber doing the same thing is a trusted individual.

... and this confirms that even further.

I don't see the reason to continue arguing with you imho.

Not really two birds in one stone then. Because it supports the model.

One or two streamers won't change much.

In fact I would argue streamers doing this over and over and over again is why it becomes more and more egregious. Players watching them and donating then to spend money on this helps as well.

When i see how stupidly bad P2W is in this game watching his stream or videos... it makes me even more to not touch this game at all.
I've no idea why it would make me otherwise?

If you want this model to be gone, you only have to ignore the shop and also ignore streamers who try to profit over buying shit from the store.

I won't play this or any other mobile game.
My friends will not too.
... but sadly there is enough 'clueless mobile gamers' that are willing to pay thousands of dollars.

Buying from it to prove that it's bad is like you buying an overpriced house to prove its overpriced. You just bought it, so clearly it's not the wrong price.

You can't compare imaginary things in game with anything irl.

Clearly the store isn't bad, since he paid for it. I don't think developers care if people pay to prove a point, only that they pay.

Again - he bought it for stream content and to show others how bad it is.
He is happy to get more viewers and money back.
Viewers can see the stupid level of P2W in this game.
That is all.

I have to point out though... the quality of armors and the high detail on it is crazy for being a mobile game. It's much better than D3.

I agree.
Art style in general is gorgeus in this game.
Even gameplay looks really smooth and 'diabloish'.
So sad that anything else is horrible greedy dogshit.

[Elim Garak]

Yes... i've just presented that conclusion...

That explains everything why you don't why he did that....

Why are you defending a streamer who uses predatory techniques to skim his audience?

[Mendzia]

Why are you defending a streamer who uses predatory techniques to skim his audience?

I do not defend anyone.
It is his stream and he can do whatever he wants with his time, audience or money.
He used his own $$ to show how stupidly bad P2W this game is and you or me can't do anything with it.
You instead taking any notes from his example (as not many people are able to use that amount of personal money) and avoid this game rather change subject and say i am defending him and his making money toally ignoring the true reason of this topic.

My last response to you (yes - i said that eralier too).
Peace.

[Elim Garak]

I do not defend anyone.
It is his stream and he can do whatever he wants with his time, audience or money.
He used his own $$ to show how stupidly bad P2W this game is and you or me can't do anything with it.
You instead taking any notes from his example (as not many people are able to use that amount of personal money) and avoid this game rather change subject and say i am defending him and his making money toally ignoring the true reason of this topic.

My last response to you (yes - i said that eralier too).
Peace.

So Blizzard owns DI, it's their game and they can do whatever they want with their time, players or money.
Any money Blizzard gets from players - is Blizzard's money.
They use their games to show how stupidly bad free players are, and you or me can't do anything with it.
I'm taking notes from Blizzard's example.

My post-your-last response to you
The fuck out.

[xenogear3]

Streamer Quin69 tried PvP yesterday after spending +3k NZD on his character... and went as expected totally obliterating everyone without being killed.
Yeah... imagine being F2P player and trying to climb in PvP ladder, LOL.

That is good news. It means only the streamers spent $3000.
Other people spent less than $3000.

I am done with this game.
Diablo is famous for grinding.
As a gacha game, Diablo Immortal is even worse.
You are wasting time by playing it.

As for the hate for gacha games, most people have to learn the hard way.
Once in awhile, YuGiOh Duel Links has this $1 10% chance for a legendary card.
(Normally this legendary card costs $200)
Eventually, people will learn that these $1 lottery tickets are wasting money.

[Mendzia]

That is good news. It means only the streamers spent $3000.
Other people spent less than $3000.

Well... i did not think about that.
Yeah - you can probably say that this is a good thing as it shows that others paid much less (or hopefully even nothing).

[Nymrohd]

Well... i did not think about that.
Yeah - you can probably say that this is a good thing as it shows that others paid much less (or hopefully even nothing).

I've run multiple BGs and I've found only one person who clearly sunk money on this. And I still think we'd have had a chance if we were defense.

[Stockers]

I love reading some of the posts here and the arguments people are getting into over this game