1. #661
    Wait a sec. Is there really a dungeon where you get nothing but a discount code on completion, or is this some kind of exaggeration?

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    Of course people would be upset if the game itself sucked that's an entirely different argument that has nothing to do with monetization.
    Right, but I'm saying even the non-pay to win store elements are being criticized. The monetization scheme is specifically being called out for being bad.

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
    Wait a sec. Is there really a dungeon where you get nothing but a discount code on completion, or is this some kind of exaggeration?
    Definitely an exaggeration. You get rewards for completion but first time you complete a dungeon the game will offer you a one time discount on an item bundle.

    I usually just ignore them and move on but apparently this is too aggressive for some people.

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathspell View Post
    Maybe they made it cost 110k to max out your char fast because that is not what you are expected to do?
    100k $$ is lower border from i've read.
    Some estimates are going to 500k $$... but the final amount is not that important here imho.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathspell View Post
    If you play casually you get some crests for free and gear up slowly or get a boost by spending a bit of real money along the way. Paying that 110k gets you the best gear and all the gems so why do you even play after that? It's like buying a boost to full bis and hall of fame in WoW. What do you even do after that? It is supposed to be prohibitively expensive so not as many people even try to minmax that fast.
    Now google how long would GUARANTEE F2P player one 5-star gem. SPOILER: 50 months.
    Above number is 'pity version' (when you are really unlucky you are guaranteed to gain one after 50th Rift with legendary crest AFAIK) so you can probably do it 'just' in half of this time.
    I think there are 10 (? not sure about correct number) legendary gems (not sure about final amount) so... yeah... good luck maxing your character. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathspell View Post
    Im pretty sure anyone who spends more than 100$ is in the minority.
    Absolute assumption without any data.
    Personally i think majority people playing this easily spent between 100-1000$... but it is only my guess.
    Last edited by Mendzia; 2022-06-06 at 03:43 PM.

  5. #665
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    Right, but I'm saying even the non-pay to win store elements are being criticized. The monetization scheme is specifically being called out for being bad.
    What non p2w elements are being criticized? because other than the price of the horn of plenty most complaints seem centered around the cost of legendary crests which help get legendary gems.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    Absolute assumption without any data.
    Personally i think majority people playing this easily spent between 100-1000$... but it is only my guess.
    This is a stupid assumption. People play f2p games because they don't want to spend alot of money. They spend maybe 5 or 20 dollars a month. But split across a million players that's still alot of revenue.

  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    This is a stupid assumption. People play f2p games because they don't want to spend alot of money. They spend maybe 5 or 20 dollars a month. But split across a million players that's still alot of revenue.
    Yes - i pointed out it is only my assumption that can be horribly wrong.
    I think we will learn some numbers on their next quarterly financial report.

  7. #667
    There are plenty of character slots to play each class, and you don't have to pay to save different loadouts or access your stash. Also I seem to have some sort of 30 day battle pass going on, dunno if that's a "first one is free" deal or just what I should expect from the game.

    Either way they've at least avoided some of the more annoying ways f2p games nickle-and-dime players.

  8. #668
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    Yes - this is how it used to be.
    You play more = you are higher rank or better geared.
    Everything is totally closed just to the game.



    In Diablo 2 you could gain advantage in 2 ways: you played alot and farmed great gear or you are more skilled in PvP duels.
    In Diablo 3 you had an advantage by spending hours farming good rolled legendaries and high paragons.
    In D:I case these are irrelevant as person who paid most will win regardless.
    That is probably the case for PvP. But i have zero interest in PvP, so hopefully PvE will be enjoyable enough without paying that much.

    Paying to skip part of the mindless grind is not bad per se. If I could pay 5 bucks every D3 season to have 2K gons for free I would probably do it. There is zero skill involved in that. Again I would like to highlight that having 10 hours a day to grind is not skill.

  9. #669
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    Yes - i pointed out it is only my assumption that can be horribly wrong.
    I think we will learn some numbers on their next quarterly financial report.
    The majority of players will pay nothing. We already know this because that's how it always is. But their next financial report would be amazing.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodkin View Post
    Funnyhow so many people are more than willing to excuse absolutely terrible and predatory practices by corporations, as if this won't escalate any further.
    ah yeah, the good old slipery slope bullshit, remember when star pony came out in wrath? it was end of the world on forums, people talking about how since the very next day we start to buy everything on shop, gear, bufs, tickets to raids and so on, over a decade later and what is on shop? oh right, still just cosmetics...
    plus ofc token, which allows people to play without paying

  11. #671
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    That is probably the case for PvP. But i have zero interest in PvP, so hopefully PvE will be enjoyable enough without paying that much.

    Paying to skip part of the mindless grind is not bad per se. If I could pay 5 bucks every D3 season to have 2K gons for free I would probably do it. There is zero skill involved in that. Again I would like to highlight that having 10 hours a day to grind is not skill.
    Imagine the complaints about people being able to buy a train ticket instead of walking. Walking takes SO MUCH LONGER. It's pay to arrive I tell ya.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  12. #672
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    Some of you are absolutely absurd in your assumptions about how people play these games. F2P games generally have a giant population of people who exclusively play these games for free, and/or might buy things like battle pass options until they're effectively done playing the game. If the game doesn't hold them these people vanish, much like I vanished from Lost Ark (and I'm assuming many more had this exact same behavior).

    Claims like the majority of people paying north of 100 dollars on a game that's barely been released is actually absurd. At this juncture, that kind of spending would be absolutely in 'whale' status. I have over 2000 hours spent in PoE (spending 40 dollars), and over 200 in Lost Ark spending exactly 0 dollars. Regardless of how in your face the store is in this game, I don't think this is going to impact peoples overall spending habits on a game that's been out for what, less than a week?

    Whales keep these games afloat long term, but if the game isn't fair the game will lose interest to whales as well. Some of the psychology behind these games is being better than other people, and those with lots of disposable income without necessarily having the time to invest will have absolutely zero problem shelling out money to either keep up or be better than the rest. When the 'rest' (F2P players, or those who spend very little on these type of games) decide the game is no longer fun or they get hard progression stuck, they leave which overtime will erode the whale player base because they can no longer 'lord' their characters over others.

    This isn't me defending the practices in DI by the way. The store advertisements (especially when leveling) are indeed intrusive, but I'm also not the type of individual that bites on that sort of shit anyway.

    The worst part about this whole thing is I haven't hit max level yet, but neither have most of the people who are giving their opinions on the monetization aspects via youtube/streaming as well. Why would I get the opinion of somebody who is crying on the internet after spending 15 minutes to 2 hours with the game? I'm having fun with the game (level 50), haven't spent a dime, and if my progress is stymied at some point I'll just drop the game with the possibility of coming back in the future if they have updates. When I realized I had to play half a dozen characters to feed my main in Lost Ark I stopped playing, because that seemed like the only way to advance aside from swiping a credit card. The thought of doing dailies on that many characters made me puke in my mouth.

    At the end of the day I don't understand why people feel bad for whales. They have more money than they know what to do with and you should have enough control to stop yourself from spending money on shit you find predatory. If the gameplay loop sucks, don't play it. If you have kids and are worried about them running up your credit card, well.. that my friend is a parenting problem.

  13. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    That is probably the case for PvP. But i have zero interest in PvP, so hopefully PvE will be enjoyable enough without paying that much.
    In D2 duels - yes.
    D3... did not have PvP.

    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Paying to skip part of the mindless grind is not bad per se. If I could pay 5 bucks every D3 season to have 2K gons for free I would probably do it. There is zero skill involved in that. Again I would like to highlight that having 10 hours a day to grind is not skill.
    So you want to play seasonal game where you farm items and paragons... without farming gear and paragons?... and then farm even more items and paragons by your own?
    What kind of logic is that?
    What about play your old characters from previous seasons that are no longer seasonal?
    You do not miss much... unless you want some dogshit transmog wings.
    Last edited by Mendzia; 2022-06-06 at 04:00 PM.

  14. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    What non p2w elements are being criticized? because other than the price of the horn of plenty most complaints seem centered around the cost of legendary crests which help get legendary gems.
    Sorry, we're talking about three different games in the same thread LOL

    So I'm referring to Halo Infinite's non-p2w stuff. It's still being criticized despite the game being f2p and only offering cosmetic rewards via the battlepass and ingame store and suggesting that I don't think Battlefront 2 being F2P would have alleviated the concerns that many people had with the grind. There are some things that people except to be able to access in a reasonable amount of time and/or effort even from F2P games.

    That being said, I do totally understand where you're coming from that the barrier for what is deemed acceptable is lower for a game that doesn't physically ask you to pay, it's just I think a lot of people would rather pay full retail price for a good game than be expected to pay hundreds of dollars in order to make the game actually fun to play. Like Diablo has always been pretty grindy, but the fact that you can only earn 1 Legendary Crest per month if you're free to play is a little absurd.

    I also think the main issue isn't that it takes you X amount of time to grind F2P stuff, but rather it's the fact that you're strictly time-gated based on an arbitrary amount of real world time passing. It doesn't matter how many hours you play in that month time frame, the game still says you can only buy one Legendary Crest per month with Hilts. If you want any more, you'll have to fork over real money. You could play for 2 hours and then not touch the game for an entire month and still get the same amount of Legendary Crests as somebody who plays for 8 hours a day.

  15. #675
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    Sorry, we're talking about three different games in the same thread LOL

    So I'm referring to Halo Infinite's non-p2w stuff. It's still being criticized despite the game being f2p and only offering cosmetic rewards via the battlepass and ingame store and suggesting that I don't think Battlefront 2 being F2P would have alleviated the concerns that many people had with the grind. There are some things that people except to be able to access in a reasonable amount of time and/or effort even from F2P games.

    That being said, I do totally understand where you're coming from that the barrier for what is deemed acceptable is lower for a game that doesn't physically ask you to pay, it's just I think a lot of people would rather pay full retail price for a good game than be expected to pay hundreds of dollars in order to make the game actually fun to play. Like Diablo has always been pretty grindy, but the fact that you can only earn 1 Legendary Crest per month if you're free to play is a little absurd.

    I also think the main issue isn't that it takes you X amount of time to grind F2P stuff, but rather it's the fact that you're strictly time-gated based on an arbitrary amount of real world time passing. It doesn't matter how many hours you play in that month time frame, the game still says you can only buy one Legendary Crest per month with Hilts. If you want any more, you'll have to fork over real money. You could play for 2 hours and then not touch the game for an entire month and still get the same amount of Legendary Crests as somebody who plays for 8 hours a day.
    It's possible the grind could be improved but I'm more concerned about what content I can do. I don't care how hard it is to get legendary gems as long as I'm not getting locked out of content because I don't have them.

  16. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    Oh please, lose the dramatic stage acting. No it isn't.

    There are still thousands upon thousands of non-gacha games you can go out and play. More than ever, actually.
    I do play those. Only. Until everything is a sex shop... i mean a shop

  17. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    It's possible the grind could be improved but I'm more concerned about what content I can do. I don't care how hard it is to get legendary gems as long as I'm not getting locked out of content because I don't have them.
    It seems like you essentially are in some capacity, but it also seems like it sorta depends on what you consider content to be.
    These gems are the main source of your power, and you can apparently socket gems into gems? I don't quite understand the specific nuances, but it basically sounds like these gems make up so much of your power that it would be impossible to complete the content at the highest difficult levels without them. Do you consider being able to access higher difficulty levels as content? I'm sure not everybody does.

  18. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Imagine the complaints about people being able to buy a train ticket instead of walking. Walking takes SO MUCH LONGER. It's pay to arrive I tell ya.
    What a stupid comparison.

    Distances arent man made. Grinds are.

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    There are plenty of character slots to play each class, and you don't have to pay to save different loadouts or access your stash. Also I seem to have some sort of 30 day battle pass going on, dunno if that's a "first one is free" deal or just what I should expect from the game.

    Either way they've at least avoided some of the more annoying ways f2p games nickle-and-dime players.
    It's the same thing as CoD:Mobile's and Hearthstone's battle passes. You can progress on its levels and get rewards, but if you purchase the full pass you get more rewards more frequently.

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    There are two sides in the lootbox predatory monetization debate:
    yes, those who have their opinion, and know its nothing but opinion, and then morons who claim they are right about it, and whoever disagree with them is wrong

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