Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[rhorle]

If you're going to ask for peoples time to play your game, respect it. Don't purposefully waste their time just to create a market for people who will pay to skip that grind. How hard is that to understand? Sell things that makes the experience of the paying player better without making the experience of the free player worse. Don't ruin the balance of a multiplayer game for the sake of easy profits.

They do respect your time. You can play and progress for free. Time isn't wasted unless you get no entertainment value out of the game. The market exists for people to pay to skip because some people don't want the grind inherent to an ARPG. It is why the D3 RMAH existed. It is why the D2 black market economy existed. It is why the Boba Fett D1 trainer existed. People have always been willing to be pay for convience.

[Majestic12]

Doesn't this just show that it isn't the game being designed to make you want to spend but that you don't like the costs of the game? And if the costs were lower it would still be designed to make you want to spend and screw over those that don't equally spend?

if they implemented a gauranteed 4/5-star pity system the costs would have been fine. The rates are atrocious and there's no good pity system to back it up. Gachas solve this by letting players pity pull, sometimes even select-pull whatever they want. Diablo Immortal does none of this, it just screws you over.

I haven't touched on the F2P aspect much as I am not a F2P player in any gacha game, but F2P players have no future in this game. There are way too many limitations in check. A traditional gacha awards currency as you progress that you can do direct rolls with. In this game, that would be legendary crests - and those you won't see more than once a month as F2P. And getting a 5-star 5-star gem is 0.025% chance.

[Mojo03]

You may not like the mtx model, but the game itself is far from being shitty. It’s a mobile version of Diablo and it’s pretty fun to play if you like the genre.

99% of people complaining here have not even installed the game.

Well, I'd argue it is innately a shitty game that uses presentation and engineering very well to mask an experience that almost entirely plays itself.

It feels like you're playing the game because they let you push the buttons, but can you even fail anything if 1) you're doing stuff intended for your gear level 2) keep all the buttons on cooldown 3) follow the clear and glaring indicators? Do any of your choices really matter? Are you just going where it tells you to go and using the glaringly obvious gear choices? Or is the game just letting you push the buttons on an almost entirely pre-determined path?

I'd say you're almost on entirely on a pre-determined path.

Which is a large part of why it's a shitty game.

[Majestic12]

They do respect your time. You can play and progress for free. Time isn't wasted unless you get no entertainment value out of the game. The market exists for people to pay to skip because some people don't want the grind inherent to an ARPG. It is why the D3 RMAH existed. It is why the D2 black market economy existed. It is why the Boba Fett D1 trainer existed. People have always been willing to be pay for convience.

"Pay to Skip" is generous in this case. It should be "Pay to have any shot at getting anything". You're not going to get anywhere as F2P in the whole game's lifetime with the current model in the game.

[rhorle]

Do they do that in WoW when you die? Why not?

They do have a recap of what killed you when you die so you can attempt to learn. And yes they should recommend ways to improve because there are a lot of people that need the pointers and tips. What a strange argument to make that just because another game doesn't do it then it has to be bad that this game does it. Of course they want to make money that is the entire point of releasing a video game. Very few are given away for free.

It however isn't the only reason for recommendations to get better and it would be a great industry wide practice to be adopted anytime you die in a game.

It's not a personal issue at all. It's how they designed the game to be and that's just a fact. Just like how Facebook/Meta tries to make money with your data even though they never point it out themselves. Stop pretending to not know this, just so you can win an argument on the internet, lmao.

It is always a personal issue when you let a game dictate your happiness. If you don't enjoy playing a game then stop playing it and find something else to do. If anything is making you feel miserable then stop doing that thing. This is entirely a personal issue because you are choosing to have those feelings in response to what the game is doing. You don't need to feel that way and can just enjoy the game with out having to worry about what others can buy or how long it takes to get "best possible items in the game".

Making money with data has nothing to do with this. Facebook also clearly indicates they make money with your data because that is their entire publicly known revenue strategy. To sell targeted ads. So stop pretending that you know something on this topic just so you can win an argument on the internet. Isn't it strange how easy your own words fit your own arguments?

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I haven't touched on the F2P aspect much as I am not a F2P player in any gacha game, but F2P players have no future in this game. There are way too many limitations in check. A traditional gacha awards currency as you progress that you can do direct rolls with. In this game, that would be legendary crests - and those you won't see more than once a month as F2P. And getting a 5-star 5-star gem is 0.025% chance.

In PvP and leader boards maybe. But there is more to the game then just that so it is ignorant to say there is no future for free to play players.

[KrayZ33]

They do have a recap of what killed you when you die so you can attempt to learn. And yes they should recommend ways to improve because there are a lot of people that need the pointers and tips. What a strange argument to make that just because another game doesn't do it then it has to be bad that this game does it. Of course they want to make money that is the entire point of releasing a video game. Very few are given away for free.

It however isn't the only reason for recommendations to get better and it would be a great industry wide practice to be adopted anytime you die in a game.

What are you trying to say here? This has nothing to do with the argument I just made.

It is always a personal issue when you let a game dictate your happiness. If you don't enjoy playing a game then stop playing it and find something else to do. If anything is making you feel miserable then stop doing that thing. This is entirely a personal issue because you are choosing to have those feelings in response to what the game is doing. You don't need to feel that way and can just enjoy the game with out having to worry about what others can buy or how long it takes to get "best possible items in the game".

Making money with data has nothing to do with this. Facebook also clearly indicates they make money with your data because that is their entire publicly known revenue strategy. To sell targeted ads. So stop pretending that you know something on this topic just so you can win an argument on the internet. Isn't it strange how easy your own words fit your own arguments?

I see you are a lost cause. Denial. You don't even understand what you are saying yourself or what people tell you about this game.
You are delusional and ignorant.
You don't know how these practices work and you don't understand it. But that doesn't mean they don't exist.
It's human nature to have feelings/emotions when things happen. Some players can overcome them, some don't.
And this game actively tries to get money out of those that don't or can't.
It's how the game was designed, nothing you can possibly say will change that.

[rhorle]

"Pay to Skip" is generous in this case. It should be "Pay to have any shot at getting anything". You're not going to get anywhere as F2P in the whole game's lifetime with the current model in the game.

So you can't get up to Paragon 600 for free? What is the physical barrier preventing that?

[Jerot]

They do respect your time. You can play and progress for free. Time isn't wasted unless you get no entertainment value out of the game. The market exists for people to pay to skip because some people don't want the grind inherent to an ARPG. It is why the D3 RMAH existed. It is why the D2 black market economy existed. It is why the Boba Fett D1 trainer existed. People have always been willing to be pay for convience.

You can technically play for free, but you are so off base with everything else and ignoring points being made and evidence. Arguing with you is a total waste of time. Go enjoy your game, I don't know why you dedicate so much time to lying about it on the internet.

[rhorle]

What are you trying to say here? This has nothing to do with the argument I just made.

What are you confused about? You tried to say that it is bad for a game to give pointers when you die and that WoW doesn't do it. They do to a degree and it would be a great thing if every game offered pointers on how to improve when you die. It has everything to do with the point that I told you was wrong. That the recommendations are not just to push you to the store.

It isn't denial to understand that Facebook has made public for years, including in SEC filings, that they make their money off of selling ads and mining user data. The only one in denial is yourself here.

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You can technically play for free, but you are so off base with everything else and ignoring points being made and evidence. Arguing with you is a total waste of time. Go enjoy your game, I don't know why you dedicate so much time lying about it on the internet.

So if you can play for free then I'm not off base. I'm not ignoring any points I am saying they don't apply as you just admitted because you can play for free. Of course arguing with me is a total waste of time because you literally just defeated your own post by admitting you can play for free. Lmao.

[KrayZ33]

What are you confused about? You tried to say that it is bad for a game to give pointers when you die and that WoW doesn't do it. They do to a degree and it would be a great thing if every game offered pointers on how to improve when you die. It has everything to do with the point that I told you was wrong. That the recommendations are not just to push you to the store.

If that's what you got out of that argument then you really don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

It isn't denial to understand that Facebook has made public for years, including in SEC filings, that they make their money off of selling ads and mining user data. The only one in denial is yourself here.

No... you just, once again, can't comprehend how this works and what has been said.
Neither Facebook nor D:I point out, whenever they show you something, or whenever you input some new data, that they will use it to make money and sell your information.
Everyone knows the shop in D:I exist, everyone knows Facebook uses the data.
But both "platforms" hide it while secretely leading you to spend money inside the shop or input more of your data.

When Facebook asks you "here, check out what your friends did" or "tell us what you did last night and interact with the community".
When D:I tells you "hey, this player had better gear than you, maybe you should get it too" they are both doing the same thing.

And both things aren't meant to "help you".

edit: How can you be such a fool?
Do you, for example, think that the grind at the end of Shadows of Mordor 2 wasn't done so that some players would start spending money to skip it since there is a shop that does have no reason to exist before you get to that point?

[Jerot]

So if you can play for free then I'm not off base. I'm not ignoring any points I am saying they don't apply as you just admitted because you can play for free. Of course arguing with me is a total waste of time because you literally just defeated your own post by admitting you can play for free. Lmao.

If you like being treated as a second class player, getting stomped by whales in PvP, completely glossing over every single argument I've made in this thread for what you constitute as an "easy win". lmao

My fault, I shouldn't let people like you drag me down to your level, you'll beat me with experience.

Not a single one of your arguments has been logic based or evidence backed, just "it's this way because I say it is, you are wrong.". Try finding a single credible person who isn't shitting all over the monetization of this game, not the free part, what they are trying to charge people for.

[Drajeck]

One of the things I found quite funny when trying it was when I cleared a dungeon for the first time my REWARD is a discount bundle in the shop. My reward for clearing a dungeon is the opportunity to spend money. Oh but at a discount, ya know cus they want you to be used to spending money early. Even if it's just a little. Get that taste.

From what I briefly saw of the game and the videos I have seen of others playing Blizzard has doubled down on every predatory, disgusting behaviour that P2W games have. The mental tricks of luring people in with rewards, dailies, small free tastes of what it'd be play to spend money, cheap 1-time only bundles to get you into spending just a little to get the ball rolling, every penny spent is some form of gambling mechanic to get those gambling addicts hooked etc. etc... Every mechanic in the game, every prompt, every action is designed with trying to get the player to spend money ahead of anything else.

Diablo Immortal is everything bad about current-gen games, games whos mechanics are more focused on mental warefare with the player to make as much money as possible and it saddens me than the company and game at the forefront of all these disgusting behavours is both the company and game series that I once loved.

I understand companies exist to make money, but that doesn't excuse disgusting behaviour and these predatory mechanics are exactly that. I just want game companies to be about making good games again. People should spend money on your game because your game is good and they want to support it, not because they was coaxed into spending it.

I agree 100% with this post. Very disappointed at the level of pay mechanics in the game.

[rhorle]

No... you just, once again, can't comprehend how this works and what has been said.

It's like saying Facebook/Meta doesn't try to make money with your data just because they never point it out directly.

Facebook has never denied and makes it quite clear that they try to make money with your data. Just because you made a terrible argument doesn't mean I lack comprehension because I pointed it out to you. You keep trying to make an argument but keep falling short of actually doing so. The game doesn't hide that you can spend money but it is never required. It has no pay wall. You never need to have full rank legendary gems except for the Shadow vs Immortal final showdown. Anything else in the game doesn't need those things.

If your happiness is tied to having the best of everything but you also don't want to pay then this isn't the game for you. If the game makes you feel miserable because you don't have what others have then find a different game. It is entirely a personal thing because you are discussing your own personal response to something that is entertainment.

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If you like being treated as a second class player

You are not though. In PvE you are as equal as anyone else. The game splits players up into brackets based on their difficulty mode and not based on your legendary gem rank. I'm not glossing over every single argument you made. I am saying your arguments are wrong because as you admitted you can play the game completely for free. If none of my arguments have been logic or reason based why did you admit in your last post that I was right?

Isn't it strange that now that you've admitted the game can be played 100% for free that you turn to insulting me and finding a way to tear me down that doesn't involve logic or reason. The very thing you just accused me of never doing? It is pure projection on your part.

[KrayZ33]

Facebook has never denied and makes it quite clear that they try to make money with your data. Just because you made a terrible argument doesn't mean I lack comprehension because I pointed it out to you. You keep trying to make an argument but keep falling short of actually doing so. The game doesn't hide that you can spend money but it is never required. It has no pay wall. You never need to have full rank legendary gems except for the Shadow vs Immortal final showdown. Anything else in the game doesn't need those things.

If your happiness is tied to having the best of everything but you also don't want to pay then this isn't the game for you. If the game makes you feel miserable because you don't have what others have then find a different game. It is entirely a personal thing because you are discussing your own personal response to something that is entertainment.

No, you just fail to understand what this means and you are trying to pinpoint your counterargument on a word that can be read differently if you ignore the fucking context.
Facebook doesn't tell you anything about how they make money with your data when you use their platform.
You agree to a terms of service and they don't point it out whenever it happens. There is no message about "we just used your new post about food items to X Y Z"
So they actually *never* point it out directly. For obvious reasons.
Just like how D:I never directly *tells* you to spend money.

[chiddie]

.....

what?

lmao.
You do realize that whenever you die in this game, they tell you to "get gud" and get better gear, right?
It's not a friendly reminder on how to improve. It's meant to lure you into the shop.

It's literally telling you to spend money, so you can be as awesome as the guy that just killed you in PvP.
And do you actually know what the pvp-scalings does? It's not setting your combat rating to equal levels.

Lets not pretend that this game doesn't incentivize players to spend money, please.
You can be fine with it for all I care... but they aren't trying to sell you the product by making the product itself good or enjoyable.
They try to sell you the product by making you feel miserable and then they tell you: "you need this worthless thing we just made up to be happy again"

I died 2-3 times while leveling (35 atm) and did not see any git gud or buy stuff, only two options (ress in town or ress at corpse).

I am starting to suspect that by the end of page 100 we will be at the stage “my iPhone won’t work anymore if I don’t buy a DI bundle, fokk Blizzard”.

[KrayZ33]

I died 2-3 times while leveling (35 atm) and did not see any git gud or buy stuff, only two options (ress in town or ress at corpse).

I am starting to suspect that by the end of page 100 we will be at the stage “my iPhone won’t work anymore if I don’t buy a DI bundle, fokk Blizzard”.

Then play PvP.



here, just for you, it's a drop down menu that appears when you die. Taken from a random pvp video about P2W issues. Not sure what he actually says in that video but whatever. I was pretty certain it would show up and it has, literally in the first few seconds of his video.

Like... these recommendations only list options that you can use the shop for.
It doesn't tell you about how there is PvP equipment (basically) or how you could change your setup or gems. It says "upgrade" for a reason and it starts with "legendary gems" for a reason as well.
It's the typical, cookie cutter, out of the book kind of thing to do.
What was the video again?


Can't watch it atm, but I believe this one is the one I was looking for.
This isn't anything new, this has been posted several times already, but obviously some guys need some reminders.

[rhorle]

Facebook doesn't tell you anything about how they make money with your data when you use their platform.

https://www.facebook.com/terms.php

That isn't direct? The very terms you agree to when signing up to use their product? Strange, right? But that is again ignoring context or something, right?

[Jerot]

No, you just fail to understand what this means and you are trying to pinpoint your counterargument on a word that can be read differently if you ignore the fucking context.
Facebook doesn't tell you anything about how they make money with your data when you use their platform.
You agree to a terms of service and they don't point it out whenever it happens.
So they actually *never* point it out directly. For obvious reasons.
Just like how D:I never directly *tells* you to spend money.

Don't bother, any decent point you make will be ignored, and they'll just find something dumb to twist it into to fit their narrative.

It's obvious how bad monetization is in both situations, they just choose to ignore it, they don't really care.

[KrayZ33]

https://www.facebook.com/terms.php

That isn't direct? The very terms you agree to when signing up to use their product? Strange, right? But that is again ignoring context or something, right?

Yes. It is. I even pointed it out how it is, lol.

[Elim Garak]

Your argument is just as nonsensical.

Nope. It was a trap. So that you explain how you are no different than a whale. In every regard but money owned.

You want to feel special. Better than others. You want people to ask you "wow nice mount where did you get it?" and you want to tell them the great epic story of how you were grinding it for 3 years and finally the happy drop.

All in all you have WRONG priorities in life.

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Like... these recommendations only list options that you can use the shop for.

No. it lists all the options for how you can improve your gear. ALL.

It doesn't tell you about how there is PvP equipment or how you could change your setup or gems. It says "upgrade" for a reason and it starts with "legendary gems" for a reason as well.

How do you know? Those arrows to the right of each option certainly indicate they lead somewhere as to expand. So if you are interested in how you can upgrade your gear - you click that option and it must show you. That's great UX.
You know nothing Jon Snow.