Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[chiddie]

Wow tokens only served two purposes, for Blizz to dive into the gold selling market legally and to divert illegal gold purchases as much as possible. Thinking it's more than that needs a reality check. Blizz knew there is no way to stop illegal gold selling, so the next best thing is to tap into the market without killing the economy and make some money in the process.

I know why it’s have been done but the result is it having become more and more a p2w mechanism for people with enough money to throw.

I’m not against it by design as I’m not against mtx by design but both are used to gain in-game advantages.

The difference is that WoW token is barely advertised, because the game has other sources of incomes (subs/services/cosmetics/mounts/etc) and none of them provides immediate and tangible player power.

Would have I preferred DI without restrictions and with a monthly fee? Dunno, it’s a type of game that probably doesn’t have enough content to justify a monthly fee (surely not a 13 euros per month like WoW at least imho). The only other MMOARPG coming in my mind is Lost Ark and its business model is not that far from DI.

I can understand the hate for the mtx model but unless you wanna constantly top the leaderboards, the game seems to be enjoyable enough, considering it’s - again - free.

[rhorle]

To put it this way, if we both play the game normally, I whale for Resonance and you don't, you'll do zero damage compared to me. That's the whole P2W complaint about the game.

Zero damage? isn't it funny how you keep using exaggeration. First you claim that resonance is the only source of power and now you say a person that doesn't whale will do zero damage comparably. Well stop comparing because it isn't needed. There would still be power gaps between those who play a lot and those who play casually even if the pay to win didn't exist or was cheaper/lower. It is a natural function of any game with progression that someone is more powerful. That doesn't demean or under value the person that is lower unless they tie their enjoyment to only that concept.

The whole pay to win debate is flawed since it is based on "They have something I don't" when you can still progress and gain power. While also still being able to do everything PvE. PvP is the only time whaling will really show power but since brackets don't really exist yet because a lot of servers don't have many engaging in the end-game stuff it remains to be seen how much of an impact it will have on the average player. Because I assume brackets will be split up skill/power levels so things will be more "fair".

- - - Updated - - -

Now the explicit endorsement is out in the open via D:I and everyone is up in arms about it, just because a company which people once cherished has turned into what any sensible person would disdain.

Wouldn't Hearthstone have been an explicit endorsement of pay to win? And that game is developed just by Blizzard. Isn't it strange how people keep trying to make the claim that DI is some turning point for Blizzard, or the industry, when it is nothing new for either. Also hilarious that you think most of the people that are complaining are just now seeing the company as tarnished. If you graphed out the people that already had "disdain" for Blizzard with those who are spending the most time complaining about DI you would likely lines close to each other.

[Fencers]

I found this appropriate:

[The Stormbringer]

This game has some of the most disgusting, predatory, psychology-abusing pay-to-win bullshit that I've ever seen. I will play the story mode, for free, and then uninstall this game until there's another story update. I will not pay a single cent on this game, and I strongly advise everyone else to do the same. To give them money is to encourage more of this bullshit in the future, to tell them that it's acceptable. Please do not do that.

[Ghost of Cow]

It's pretty clear that the point of this and other threads is to fight with people, not listen or learn anything. I guess that's fine but doesn't help anyone that's trying to learn anything about the game. Luckily it's free so people can just pick it up and play it; decide for themselves.

This thread is like the embodiment of the, "STOP HAVING FUN" meme, honestly.

[PC2]

I found this appropriate:

[video=youtube_share;4zQdusAXmNs]https://youtu.be/4zQdusAXmNs[video]

Encouraging players to pay for a F2P game isn't immoral though. Blizz could charge any amount for any digital content and it still wouldn't be immoral.

[Makabreska]

So like, DI breaks download records, I think:

https://www.wowhead.com/diablo-immor...y-store-327277

[Jerot]

It also doesn't help that streamers made up a number that noone can really confirm but will happily rally around.

The crest/gem odds are public, you can see for yourself, as well as the numbers required for upgrades, and the eternal orb costs of everything. You can easily do the math and verify them, like I did earlier in the thread.

[probert]

So like, DI breaks download records, I think:

https://www.wowhead.com/diablo-immor...y-store-327277

Jesus wept.

[klaps_05]

I find it hilarious that wowhead are disabling comments on diablo immortal posts. Show a bit of spine, jesus. The more this is discussed on more boards, the better.

[rhorle]

So like, DI breaks download records, I think:

https://www.wowhead.com/diablo-immor...y-store-327277

That isn't any indication of a record. It is just the top free games for the week/period. Candy Crush Saga for example has 250 million people that play it more the once a month. Could DI have broken a record? Maybe. But it is pretty easy for a high-profile game to top the charts in its release week.

It is currently 8th on the Top Grossing chart so it will be interesting to see if it climbs anymore.

[Rawrajishxc]

So like, DI breaks download records, I think:

https://www.wowhead.com/diablo-immor...y-store-327277

Not really, there's been hundreds of top #1 gacha mobile games that have shut down in less than a year.

[Terminatrix]

One of the things I found quite funny when trying it was when I cleared a dungeon for the first time my REWARD is a discount bundle in the shop. My reward for clearing a dungeon is the opportunity to spend money. Oh but at a discount, ya know cus they want you to be used to spending money early. Even if it's just a little. Get that taste.

From what I briefly saw of the game and the videos I have seen of others playing Blizzard has doubled down on every predatory, disgusting behaviour that P2W games have. The mental tricks of luring people in with rewards, dailies, small free tastes of what it'd be play to spend money, cheap 1-time only bundles to get you into spending just a little to get the ball rolling, every penny spent is some form of gambling mechanic to get those gambling addicts hooked etc. etc... Every mechanic in the game, every prompt, every action is designed with trying to get the player to spend money ahead of anything else.

Diablo Immortal is everything bad about current-gen games, games whos mechanics are more focused on mental warefare with the player to make as much money as possible and it saddens me than the company and game at the forefront of all these disgusting behavours is both the company and game series that I once loved.

I understand companies exist to make money, but that doesn't excuse disgusting behaviour and these predatory mechanics are exactly that. I just want game companies to be about making good games again. People should spend money on your game because your game is good and they want to support it, not because they was coaxed into spending it.

you do know immortal is a mobile game app and like all mobile game its a cash grab. they put it on pc but at its base core its design as a mobile cash game

[Jerot]

This thread is like the embodiment of the, "STOP HAVING FUN" meme, honestly.

Did anyone say you are wrong for enjoying the game? The overwhelming majority of the criticism I've seen has been towards Blizzard and the monetization, not other players. We've pointed out reasons why many players might not enjoy it, but if they aren't applicable to you, good for you!

Is it impossible to critique simply because it's a mobile game? No one is allowed to talk about something they wish was better, or why they don't like something, positive opinions only?

[uuuhname]

T
-It's not a predatory business model. There's nothing unethical about it.

$110,000 to max out a character.

OR

spend the equivalent of ten years playing the game.


what are you talking about.

[Elim Garak]

The overwhelming majority of the criticism

From the underwhelming minority who wants to prevent the overwhelming majority from having fun by state regulations.

- - - Updated - - -

$110,000 to max out a character.

OR

spend the equivalent of ten years playing the game.


what are you talking about.

Certainly not false dichotomies.

[PC2]

$110,000 to max out a character.

OR

spend the equivalent of ten years playing the game.

what are you talking about.

But why do you think that's immoral? Non-paying gamers are fortunate to get anything over any time period...

As far as the money I don't think you should be able to beat the game with $110k or $110 billion because the game system should be designed with the potential for infinite progression, imo.

[uuuhname]

Certainly not false dichotomies.

that's the amount of time or money you need to max out a character's stats. what the fuck are you talking about dichotomies here.

imagine this was any anime gacha game and ya'll would be calling this a scam.

[rhorle]

$110,000 to max out a character. OR spend the equivalent of ten years playing the game. what are you talking about.

Is it unethical for a game to require long grinds for best in slot when there is no pay to win? Because that is the argument you are making. It shouldn't only be unethical when options to skip it exist. Do we know that the grind would be substantially different if pay to win didn't exist? Or would Legendary crests/gems still be a slow trickle to prolong the life of the game?

[Xilurm]

But why do you think that's immoral? Non-paying gamers are fortunate to get anything over any time period...

As far as the money I don't think you should be able to beat the game with $110k or $110 billion because the game system should be designed with the potential for infinite progression, imo.

I wonder if people will celebrate when games are eventually going to have ads every 10 mins, and cost 150 dollars/euros to buy?

Oh why is that even a question, of course they will.