Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Ghost of Cow]

Again,i got nothing against people who play casualy have fun and dont care about progression,min maxing,being competitive etc,i rly do hope you enjoy your time

I don't know why people keep bringing up min/maxing and such. If you want to min/max, do it in a game where it makes sense. You don't need to go down the list of every game that's ever released and freak out over how maybe that game isn't good for min/maxing.

And if you're so addicted to min/maxing in everything that's ever shown to you, please allow me to present "Bovinity's Cash Maxer 2.1" where you can send me cash and I'll insert a very large number in a database for you!

[Jerot]

I don't know why people keep bringing up min/maxing and such. If you want to min/max, do it in a game where it makes sense. You don't need to go down the list of every game that's ever released and freak out over how maybe that game isn't good for min/maxing.

And if you're so addicted to min/maxing in everything that's ever shown to you, please allow me to present "Bovinity's Cash Maxer 2.1" where you can send me cash and I'll insert a very large number in a database for you!

This point again for the 182nd time this thread. You don't have to play. You don't have to pay. Who cares. Yes. That isn't the point.

Maybe there are systems here that would be more engaging if they didn't currently take several decades or tens of thousands of dollars to do anything with. Maybe the game wouldn't be as widely criticized if it didn't have such an egregious price model.

If you don't like hearing about min-maxing, maybe find a thread that isn't about how a game about min-maxing made their monetization strategy min-maxing the amount of money they can milk from min-maxers. Like seriously, every diablo game ever has been about killing monsters and getting loot, grinding to make your character a bit better each time, doing it all again. This isn't a strange concept.

We aren't "freaking out" about every game like this, we aren't even freaking out about this game. Simply pointing out how obviously moronic the whole thing is. Are you so addicted to being on the other side of an argument that you can't see that? Are you honestly defending blizzard charging six figures for one armor set in a video game?

[Alroxas]

Well, yes. Because it's a horrible argument.

"It's bad because it's illegal." isn't an argument. If it were, then every backward stupid law in the world would also be a moral code, and it's not. Do I really need to start listing some of the shitty laws around the world?

If it's bad, you can explain why it's bad. Just pointing to a law in one place and thinking that makes your argument for you doesn't actually work.

Ok then skip the Belgium law and look at the rest of the post.

Blizzard has removed MTX before (referencing Overwatch and HoTS) and generally speaking, the biggest negative factor (so far) has been the MTX of Immortal. Remove the MTX (even if it became a $20 game or a $5~$10 subscription game from the other thread) and how much more enjoyable would Immortal be?

As Beau Schwartz commented (paraphrasing from memory), DI is a 10/10 game that has a 0/10 MTX layer on top of it which makes the overall experience a 0/10 game.

[Sting]

Downloaded a VPN to install it here where it's banned, played for 10 minutes, the game shoved a loot crate in my face and I was happy that we actually have decent legislation here.

[Ghost of Cow]

Ok then skip the Belgium law and look at the rest of the post.

Blizzard has removed MTX before (referencing Overwatch and HoTS) and generally speaking, the biggest negative factor (so far) has been the MTX of Immortal. Remove the MTX (even if it became a $20 game or a $5~$10 subscription game from the other thread) and how much more enjoyable would Immortal be?

As Beau Schwartz commented (paraphrasing from memory), DI is a 10/10 game that has a 0/10 MTX layer on top of it which makes the overall experience a 0/10 game.

Call 800-Calm-The-F-Down, Operators are standing by. Now taking calls on all your D:I worries.

(I jest, of course. Just thought it would be fun.)

- - - Updated - - -

This point again for the 182nd time this thread. You don't have to play. You don't have to pay. Who cares. Yes. That isn't the point.

Maybe there are systems here that would be more engaging if they didn't currently take several decades or tens of thousands of dollars to do anything with. Maybe the game wouldn't be as widely criticized if it didn't have such an egregious price model.

If you don't like hearing about min-maxing, maybe find a thread that isn't about how a game about min-maxing made their monetization strategy min-maxing the amount of money they can milk from min-maxers. Like seriously, every diablo game ever has been about killing monsters and getting loot, grinding to make your character a bit better each time, doing it all again. This isn't a strange concept.

We aren't "freaking out" about every game like this, we aren't even freaking out about this game. Simply pointing out how obviously moronic the whole thing is. Are you so addicted to being on the other side of an argument that you can't see that? Are you honestly defending blizzard charging six figures for one armor set in a video game?

Yes, but people are using, "But I need to min/max!" as if it's some kind of handicap that the game is exploiting. That somehow they're being forced to play this one game, and they're being forced to pay because they're a habitual min/maxer or something.

[Dhrizzle]

Ok then skip the Belgium law and look at the rest of the post.

Blizzard has removed MTX before (referencing Overwatch and HoTS) and generally speaking, the biggest negative factor (so far) has been the MTX of Immortal. Remove the MTX (even if it became a $20 game or a $5~$10 subscription game from the other thread) and how much more enjoyable would Immortal be?

As Beau Schwartz commented (paraphrasing from memory), DI is a 10/10 game that has a 0/10 MTX layer on top of it which makes the overall experience a 0/10 game.

Personally I'm quite a fan of the battle pass/subscription-lite MTX. I like the way the rewards you get build up as you play so by the time it feels worth paying for you've also played for quite a while and it is worth paying for the entertainment.

[everydaygamer]

Downloaded a VPN to install it here where it's banned, played for 10 minutes, the game shoved a loot crate in my face and I was happy that we actually have decent legislation here.

True, now that you've seen it you have no choice to buy it. That is how this works after all.

[Elim Garak]

i just dont understand how anyone can look at a game that you can never even be 1/100th on the level of a whale and be forever behind,completly ruined pvp etc,and still claim you can enjoy such an enviroment

You realize that it's a Diablo game and thus PvE and relax your buttcheeks.

[chiddie]

Again,i got nothing against people who play casualy have fun and dont care about progression,min maxing,being competitive etc,i rly do hope you enjoy your time

You’re getting me wrong. I do care about progression and min maxing - to an extent, I have zero interest in PvP for example - but why should I care about those months before I will arrive to the paywall? I really don’t get this, it’s like saying “dude, why are you living, you will die in the end”.

I’m sad for f2pers that already reached the wall, but why should this spoil my fun before the wall, given it’s also for free?

Maybe you’re right and I’m simple minded but I don’t get this at all.

[Polygons]

Another Diablo game ruined with Kotick at the helm

[Popastique]

You’re getting me wrong. I do care about progression and min maxing - to an extent, I have zero interest in PvP for example - but why should I care about those months before I will arrive to the paywall? I really don’t get this, it’s like saying “dude, why are you living, you will die in the end”.

I’m sad for f2pers that already reached the wall, but why should this spoil my fun before the wall, given it’s also for free?

Maybe you’re right and I’m simple minded but I don’t get this at all.

You shouldn't care. Such f2p and p2w models has been in use for years, and the only reason people are mad - is because Blizzard did it
Just enjoy it, people will forget about it in a matter of weeks and if game does good in terms of sales and players - they will just support it with free events like every other mobile game does.

[Lolites]

On a serious note, is there a way for the community to collectively f**k with Activision Blizzard for this in some way?

Something that at the very least sends them the message that this stuff isn't going unnoticed. Flood them with refunds for MTX, some form of hashtag on social media, encouraging legislators to contact the company, etc.

well its pretty certain asia was primary market for this, so even if whole of america/europe ignores it it will still be very profitable...
and whole of america/europe wont, i would say people who are actualy "actively" against it are most likely minority

[MoanaLisa]

i just dont understand how anyone can look at a game that you can never even be 1/100th on the level of a whale and be forever behind,completly ruined pvp etc,and still claim you can enjoy such an enviroment

Again,i got nothing against people who play casualy have fun and dont care about progression,min maxing,being competitive etc,i rly do hope you enjoy your time

Better understandings of other people's points of view are good things. We don't all like the same stuff. I loathe min/maxing. I don't do PVP. I just like relaxing with half an hour of killing demons and maybe getting an upgrade once in a while. It's definitely not serious business for me.

[Alroxas]

and the only reason people are mad - is because Blizzard did it

No I'm pretty sure there are a few people who are mad because the MTX is just so extensive compared to other IPs of Blizzard. And there are other "lack of refinements" that seem to put this game away from the original core values of Blizzard (i.e. Gameplay First, Commit to Quality, etc etc).

There are some decisions that I just don't quite understand... like take the Battle Pass daily rewards... so you've purchased the Battle Pass, you should get everything in the BP yet the daily rewards of the BP are only given to you if you daily log in. Miss a day and you've lost out on something you've already paid for. Why not just allow the accrual of the daily rewards if you somehow miss a day or two?

Or how about the streamer that spent nearly $4k and still didn't get a legendary 5 star gem? That seems incredibly egregious of a system.


Now I get that some folks will say, look it's a "free" mobile game so there's bound to be some kind of hook to get "whales" to pay for it. But from what I'm seeing is that not even the "whales" want to touch end-game of DI with a 10 ft pole. So then what becomes of the legacy of DI? How does it's failures/successes translate over to future Blizzard projects including D4?

[Lolites]

The only thing these corporations will listen to is public outcry.

if the game makes huge profit, which it almost certainly will, you can cry as much as you want, they wont care... only thing you achieve is that people who wouldnt even hear about the game will try it bcs everyone is crying about it...

- - - Updated - - -

If that were the case, why is DI banned in Belgium and the Netherlands?

bcs blizzard didnt provide specific data required by law, thats all, if they did it it would be alowed there without any change whatsoever...

[Hctaz]

Better understandings of other people's points of view are good things. We don't all like the same stuff. I loathe min/maxing. I don't do PVP. I just like relaxing with half an hour of killing demons and maybe getting an upgrade once in a while. It's definitely not serious business for me.

Right, and I totally agree that Immortal is a great game to do that with.

I just also don't think it should be supported and looked at as a success because of the monetization. If you watch a lot of the content creators discuss their feelings on the game, it's that the game should be avoided like the plague due to how predatory it is, but that the actual gameplay itself isn't bad.

I think that's the main message that we should try to get across no matter if we're casual players or somebody who wanted to go hardcore and feels they cannot due to the paywall. I want Blizzard and other companies to understand that we accept that there can be mobile games with fun gameplay for people who enjoy playing games like Diablo, but that we won't stand for such egregious monetization and pay to win schemes at the same time. I appreciate the fact that they made a mobile Diablo game with good gameplay, but I don't appreciate the fact that you essentially cannot play it like a true Diablo game at the max level due to the way its monetized.

[Lolites]

Remove the MTX (even if it became a $20 game or a $5~$10 subscription game from the other thread) and how much more enjoyable would Immortal be?

to certain group of people surely more enjoyable, and to different group of people - people who play it now for free and would have to pay for it - surely LESS...
it seems to be solution to you just bcs you are part of the first group

[Elim Garak]

I just also don't think it should be supported and looked at as a success because of the monetization. If you watch a lot of the content creators discuss their feelings on the game, it's that the game should be avoided like the plague due to how predatory it is, but that the actual gameplay itself isn't bad.

I'll wait till you realize that content creators are just using the hate wave - a predatory technique - to use the fad controversy to bait people into watching how they hate it as much if not more than them.

Especially those who drop thousands of dollars on it. They expect to recoup at 800% value.

[xenogear3]

if the game makes huge profit, which it almost certainly will

Diablo Immortal doesn't look like it is doing well.
Currently, it only has 12k viewers on Twitch.
On the launch week, a game should have 100k viewers anytime.

Even Lost Ark has 19k viewers right now.

[Alroxas]

bcs blizzard didnt provide specific data required by law, thats all, if they did it it would be alowed there without any change whatsoever...

The relevant Belgium law requires Blizzard to get a "gambling license" in order to have "game of chance" mechanics in any game with RMT. I don't see where they explicitly state that specific data (probability odds) are required... granted that might be required as a part of the "gambling license" but even then that's not a simple hand wave in...

Moreover, if it was that simple to disclose probability odds it seems weird that for Overwatch and HoTS, Blizzard opted to just remove loot boxes completely. Which is also similar to what other companies have done to remain in the Belgium market.

Couldn't find the actual law for the Netherlands so I'll need to check before circling back on their regulations.