Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[thilicen]

Roll the dice, log in every day and you get 1 legendary crest a week plus one more from hilts a month, 5 rolls a month. 4.5% to hit ?/5 and 1% of those will be 5/5.

Just play the game every day for 37 years straight and don't roll less than average.
(Don't expect a genuine answer from them)

I mean, even russian roulette gives you a whooping 86% chance to live on the first shot, at worst you're looking at 50/50..

[uuuhname]

No, kids should not be allowed to gamble. Blizzard, as we have been reminded fucking numerous times over the last dozen plus years, is not our parents, nor theirs. It's up to the parents in the home to have some say and control over what their kids do. Frankly, if some 10-year-old has access to his parent's credit card how they resolve that is up to them. It's not Blizzard's concern. Again, Blizzard is not the fucking parent here.

I really feel like a fool not seeing this sentiment coming from someone who could barely bring themselves to criticize Activision Blizzard at all with that meager little "I'm not saying Blizzard is your friend" comment.

cool, you win Mona. you've beaten me and every possible example I could bring up of shitty, predatory business practices being shitty and predatory, all that those examples and instances can be SWEPT away with simple, mighty:
"well actually, it's the parents fault"
"well actually, it's the consumers fault"
"well actually, it's your fault"

congrats. add it to the score board.

we can't hold corporations to account because the blame can always be shifted elsewhere.

[Jerot]

we can't hold corporations to account because the blame can always be shifted elsewhere.

That has been the running theme in this thread.

Few people dispute how ridiculous it is to charge so much money for something so trivial. They rather hand wave it away and make it about how you are the one with the problem. Because they don't really care, so why does it matter?

[MoanaLisa]

Serious question coming from a point of ignorance. Why wouldn’t a $39.99 price for a mobile game work? I feel like there are lots of games that are pay once. Again serious question. Thanks.

Because so much of the mobile market is either F2P or the B2P games are very inexpensive. I payed $9.99 for the iOS version of Civilization VI and that included the expansions. Yeah, that's in internet years an older game but there are tons of games that run around $15 dollars. Blizzard might have made it work at that price point but I think they are looking for something that will generate revenue for many months or possibly years. You don't get that on mobile very often with a buy up front. Cash and dash. It's just a very different market to me. Those games are out there though. They typically aren't big money winners.

As well, it's been pretty much proven by now that F2P with a store is the winner in generating revenue in this market (and increasingly in PC games). That's sad to me. I'm not outraged about it because my little piece of outrage would be like trying to hold back an ocean tide but I think it's generally a change for the worse.

[Ghost of Cow]

That has been the running theme in this thread.

Few people dispute how ridiculous it is to charge so much money for something so trivial. They rather hand wave it away and make it about how you are the one with the problem. Because they don't really care, so why does it matter?

If you spend too much money on a video game, you ARE the problem.

You guys keep acting like you're baffled that people won't blame a company for selling a product while you absolve people of all responsibility for buying too much of it.

[Popastique]

No I'm pretty sure there are a few people who are mad because the MTX is just so extensive compared to other IPs of Blizzard. And there are other "lack of refinements" that seem to put this game away from the original core values of Blizzard (i.e. Gameplay First, Commit to Quality, etc etc).

There are some decisions that I just don't quite understand... like take the Battle Pass daily rewards... so you've purchased the Battle Pass, you should get everything in the BP yet the daily rewards of the BP are only given to you if you daily log in. Miss a day and you've lost out on something you've already paid for. Why not just allow the accrual of the daily rewards if you somehow miss a day or two?

Or how about the streamer that spent nearly $4k and still didn't get a legendary 5 star gem? That seems incredibly egregious of a system.


Now I get that some folks will say, look it's a "free" mobile game so there's bound to be some kind of hook to get "whales" to pay for it. But from what I'm seeing is that not even the "whales" want to touch end-game of DI with a 10 ft pole. So then what becomes of the legacy of DI? How does it's failures/successes translate over to future Blizzard projects including D4?

We will see what becomes of it after 3-4 months, it is pretty much useless to speculate right now. All depends on available content and amount of support it will receive ( events, seasons, etc . ). Can't say anything about D4, but those are different beasts - f2p mobile game and full-priced PC game. They can't be compared ( at least for now )
BTW amount of positive stuff from people over at AppStore and Google Play shows that people are ok with it, but again - it will take a few months to see the detailed picture.

Must agree on BP though, missing rewards you paid for is pretty stupid

[Ghost of Cow]

Serious question coming from a point of ignorance. Why wouldn’t a $39.99 price for a mobile game work? I feel like there are lots of games that are pay once. Again serious question. Thanks.

The mobile market is largely built on smaller/simpler games designed for people to play in short periods of time. People in that market aren't looking to shell out $40 up front for a game they're playing for 10 minutes on a bus or something.

The issue with D:I isn't that it's mobile, or that it has MTX. The issue is that you have people wanting to treat a mobile game as a full-time game. So they're going into it with these weird ideas about playing for long periods, min/maxing all the best stuff early on, and so on. Why they can't just play D3 or PoE or wait for D4 is beyond me. People just want to be angry.

[MoanaLisa]

I really feel like a fool not seeing this sentiment coming from someone who could barely bring themselves to criticize Activision Blizzard at all with that meager little "I'm not saying Blizzard is your friend" comment.

cool, you win Mona. you've beaten me and every possible example I could bring up of shitty, predatory business practices being shitty and predatory, all that those examples and instances can be SWEPT away with simple, mighty:
"well actually, it's the parents fault"
"well actually, it's the consumers fault"
"well actually, it's your fault"

congrats. add it to the score board.

we can't hold corporations to account because the blame can always be shifted elsewhere.

Outrage noted for all the actual good it will do or change it will cause. In fact large corporations in capitalist economies are very difficult to hold to account for just selling things. Sorry if the real world is not to your liking. The best advice I can offer about Blizzard or any company like this is to have some personal responsibility. Understand what they are—as many clearly do—and don't allow them to control you.

If you spend too much money on a video game, you ARE the problem.

You guys keep acting like you're baffled that people won't blame a company for selling a product while you absolve people of all responsibility for buying too much of it.

Quite right. That idiot on Twitch who spent ten grand to not get that legendary thing said he was trying to prove a point. No, he was just doing a stunt fuck to get views and spend other people's donations. Talk of twitch today though so perhaps it worked.

[Biomega]

If you spend too much money on a video game, you ARE the problem.

I mean, yes and no.

100% agreed that people should be more responsible as consumers, and stop rewarding corporations for bad products by continuing to purchase them. Money is the language they speak, so talk to them with your wallet. Screaming bloody murder and then swiping your credit card anyway is some serious cognitive dissonance.

BUUUUUT

There's also more complicated things at work. These kinds of marketing/business models are controversial for a reason. Most nations heavily regulated gambling industries, too - clearly "if you spend too much money in a casino, you ARE the problem" doesn't exactly serve as the most productive remedy to gambling problems. Now, whether or not Diablo Immoral and games like it actually cross the line into what should be regulated as gambling or gambling-adjacent, that's up for debate. Some countries say yes; the Netherlands and Belgium have banned the game. Others say no, it's not the same thing. But even if it's not gambling, maybe it's still something that could do with some more intervention than just "lol just don't do it".

Consumers deserve and need protection. That's pretty much agreed on by most people. How far it goes, therein lies the rub. This is still a relatively new industry and there's much to figure out both ethically/morally and legally. Just saying "stop doing it", while well-intentioned and technically correct, is probably just not going to be enough.

[pinkz]

streamers and influencers are doing well with diablo immortal. ATVI is laughing to the bank.

ones that say i'm doing this so you don't and i'm doing this to show you how P2W it is like asmondgold who even admitted it has been his best content in a long time, Quinn popping $5000 on one day, Shroud talking possibly popping $100K because he has it. these generate a ton of views, asmongold who once worked for the IRS, has mentioned before that all this can be wrote off as a business expense, has said it playing LA and again on DI. not sure how taxes work for those in other countries, where they consider doing such actions as criminal to create tax right offs.

the big LOL, seeing a youtube video titled Diablo Immortal - How to win as a F2P player he tells you how to crush the game playing free, then explains he spent money by accident, then why he had too

alot justify spending based on taking into consideration what you pay for a box game, monthly sub, etc. and spending that in DI. this same tactic is pushed in hero wars, lost ark, genshin impact etc monetized games. many players spend that full amount right away, and are hooked into spending. they do not hold themselves to $15 a month.
DEVs and psych's that create these games know it.

when ATVI sees the full results of the cash brought in by their 4 mobile games, vs all the effort. employees for full PC games. WOW could be going into maint mode, but it's P2W too, the true $$$ RMT amounts spent by some are mostly disguised and hidden

[|Dexter|]

While I know that this is about Diablo, it makes me fear what the future for WoW looks like... the new XP seems to be the bare minion again. For the past 2 years we got one mayor patch and store mounts and it look like this year it will be the same story... with zero communication about the release window for the new Xpack! it seems this company stop caring about creating games and is more about milking as much money from their games with as little work as possible!

[RobertoCarlos]

While I know that this is about Diablo, it makes me fear what the future for WoW looks like... the new XP seems to be the bare minion again. For the past 2 years we got one mayor patch and store mounts and it look like this year it will be the same story... with zero communication about the release window for the new Xpack! it seems this company stop caring about creating games and is more about milking as much money from their games with as little work as possible!

Dont worry WoW is doing fine at milking its player base also.

I'd like to see how much they have made off server transfers/race swaps alone.

[Jerot]

While I know that this is about Diablo, it makes me fear what the future for WoW looks like... the new XP seems to be the bare minion again. For the past 2 years we got one mayor patch and store mounts and it look like this year it will be the same story... with zero communication about the release window for the new Xpack! it seems this company stop caring about creating games and is more about milking as much money from their games with as little work as possible!

Don't worry, its just the mobile game right?

[rhorle]

your comparison to trading card games cards is bad, sorry.

we can't hold corporations to account because the blame can always be shifted elsewhere.

All you are doing is shifting the blame away from non-digital examples of the same thing because it doesn't fit your narrative. You aren't interested in holding anyone or thing accountable here and it shows. DI doesn't continually pop up on your screen asking you to pay money. It doesn't charge you $75. There is an actual market for digital goods in video games. I shouldn't have to tell you that. The value of trading cards is entirely created by the owners of that product. They only have as much worth as people value them. It is why Desert Storm cards from 1990 are not as valuable as a grade 10 Pokemon card. Pokemon cards are a lottery. Very often you don't get something valuable back. Or blind bags where it is just some cheap toy but you get the thrill of gambling by opening a mystery package.

It also shows how you give a free pass to the same types of addiction hooks, gambling, and what not when it happens with physical goods. Which is silly. If the concepts are bad with digital items then it should be bad with physical items. Stop arbitrarily creating a divide just so you can continue to hate on a video game but not other examples of the things you claim to hate.

- - - Updated - - -

Don't worry, its just the mobile game right?

How do you know they are going to sell pay to win and not just cosmetics? Or are we hating on any type of micro transaction because of the blizzard hate band wagon?

[Culex]

The game has a lot of details and features so they have to slowly unlock them for you as you progress. Otherwise new players would be overwhelmed by all the information.


It's just the game letting you know that an option is available.


-It's not a predatory business model. There's nothing unethical about it.
-Nobody is forced to play and nobody is entitled to their preferred game experience unless they created the game.
-You can experience most of the game for free.
-As far as I know F2P players can still achieve almost all of the same things but at a slower rate.

You are delusional if you actually believe this. Also there was something I was reading that you cannot actually get the highest tier legendary gem unless you actually spend money.

[Caprias]

Every game should be like diablo immortal from Blizzard.

Reading this thread I can just say we gamers deserve it.

Now let's go and suck bobby koticks dick some more.

[Mic_128]

I think Tycho said it best.

"To me, the question isn't whether or not Diablo Immortal is "fun." Lots of shit is fun. And of course it looks good. Did you think they were going to make an ugly, boring trap? Jesus Christ, people. "

[Redroniksre]

Someone linked me a video of a dude called Bellular. It’s really a comic masterpiece, he analyzes EVERY single package available in the shop like it’s the first mtx game he ever saw.

Yeah, I really could not stand his video on it. I mean, people bring up the basically sub you can pay (6.99 i think it is?) that you lose the rewards if you don't log in for that day. They act like this is a whole new thing Blizzard came up with to scam people. No, its the Welkin bonus from Genshin Impact, the exact same thing. People are mad because they expected micro transactions, but not Gacha levels of micro.

[Ghost of Cow]

I think Tycho said it best.

"To me, the question isn't whether or not Diablo Immortal is "fun." Lots of shit is fun. And of course it looks good. Did you think they were going to make an ugly, boring trap? Jesus Christ, people. "

"Trap"

How dramatic.

[xenogear3]

Hit Level 60 yesterday. Login today.
Played 3 Battleground. My team clearly has disadvantage.
Don't feel like to do the daily, the shadow contract/assembly. Logout. May never touch it again.
I was hoping to spend the $300 in my battle.net balance. Guess not on this game.

Anyone who thinks Diablo Immortal is a good game is clearly not a true gamer.
This game gives so little reward per hour's playtime.

Even for a whale, he is forced to grind for a few things.
When he sees how little the reward is, he may give up.