1. #1781
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It depends. You currently can get one from the battle pass at rank 20. You can buy 2 a month from the hilts trader (one normal and one requires you to be an immortal). Just because it takes longer doesn't mean it can't be done for free. Of course it encourages you to pay because that is how the game makes money.
    That is really bad, even as a gacha game.

  2. #1782
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerot View Post
    Hearthstone doesn't take anywhere near the same development resources by comparison, a lot of the art assets existed from the original WoW TCG. New content basically amounts to a couple of people writing card effects and creating simple 2D animations and paintings.
    A lot of DI content is rehashed D3 content. *shrugs*

    You literally know nothing about the development side of both games. And yet...
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  3. #1783
    This is not Blizzard's fault. This is the fault of all the people who pay for this crap, otherwise this problem wouldn't exist. Blizzard just does what corporations do: earn them the most money. And sadly, this will earn them more than D4.

  4. #1784
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    A lot of DI content is rehashed D3 content. *shrugs*
    They had the game engine from NetEase and assets and systems to draw from D3. And yet it took how many years to develop what we currently have?

    They won't be able to copy D3, there is no seasonal reset. They can't just shuffle around some numbers or make a couple of enemies spawn in different places and call it a day. That worked because people were re-rolling in a fresh start environment, leaderboards reset, advantages disappear, old content becomes relevant again.

    If you re-roll in DI you lose everything you've already paid for. And you won't be able to catch up, even as a gigawhale/kraken because of the daily/weekly limits on virtually everything.

    Once people are burned out on the current dungeons and raids they will need to develop new ones. Unless they develop more gearing systems or new legendaries, gearing will stagnate. Even new classes are only going to appeal to a portion of the playerbase, largely because of the issues mentioned earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3 View Post
    That is really bad, even as a gacha game.
    You know what's worse? You can spend thousands getting the thing you want (if you're lucky) and the game will delete it if you aren't careful with the auto-fill when upgrading other gear.

    You can spend money to start a clan, reach end game and join the shadows to progress, which deletes your clan because it isn't a shadow clan. So you spend money to start one of those, only to get kicked out of the shadows for not participating enough and lose that money too!
    Last edited by Jerot; 2022-06-10 at 12:52 PM.
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  5. #1785
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerot View Post
    They had the game engine from NetEase and assets and systems to draw from D3. And yet it took how many years to develop what we currently have?
    Just say that you don't know how and what they are going to do and that you have no reason to suspect the lack of ability in them. It's painful to read your "insights" into game development.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  6. #1786
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Just say that you don't know how and what they are going to do and that you have no reason to suspect the lack of ability in them. It's painful to read your "insights" into game development.
    Obviously I don't know, no one but Blizzard does. I also don't know why something so obvious needs clarification but okay.

    The reason I doubt them is simply my experience with Blizzard games over the years. I have never seen them put out meaningful content at a pace fast enough to support a game like this. Based on my experience in other related ARPGs and mobile games and their various successes and failures.

    Just my opinions and observations, you're welcome to disagree.
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  7. #1787
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerot View Post
    If you re-roll in DI you lose everything you've already paid for. And you won't be able to catch up, even as a gigawhale/kraken because of the daily/weekly limits on virtually everything.
    They have said that you will be able to class change and keep all progress. It just didn't make it in for launch. A whale will still be able to catch up without because there are very few daily and weekly limits that would impact them. Remember the game has been out for little over a week and people have progressed pretty far already. So they would only be behind on paragon levels. The only thing that would hurt a whale is battle pass progress which is boosted by daily bonuses.
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  8. #1788
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerot View Post
    Obviously I don't know, no one but Blizzard does. I also don't know why something so obvious needs clarification but okay.

    The reason I doubt them is simply my experience with Blizzard games over the years. I have never seen them put out meaningful content at a pace fast enough to support a game like this. Based on my experience in other related ARPGs and mobile games and their various successes and failures.

    Just my opinions and observations, you're welcome to disagree.
    Really you doubt a company that supported the biggest MMO for almost 18 years and still keeps going with it?
    A stupid mobile game is peanuts compared to that.

    Your personal experience is not a valid basis for anything but your personal opinion.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  9. #1789
    Pandaren Monk Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    There's a very simple explanation: overthinking with maths.
    Or it could be a cleverly designed system to force players to buy just a bit more than they need to achieve the objective they want.

    For instance, Blizzard could have easily put in a SCALING slider allowing players to buy anywhere from 1 orb to 8000+ orb and compute the price of a formula. Then add a simple bonus system where if you spend X amount, they will "kick in" an extra amount of orbs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Orbs are not used just for crests. You are so focused on Legendary Gems that you constructed this false narrative that Orb packs are designed around crests and thus must give exactly the amount of orbs to buy 50 because of a bad luck protection that kicks in.
    Where did I say that orbs are only used for crests? I don't think that was ever my argument. My argument is that for a player who wants a guaranteed legendary gem (via the pity system) needs 50 crests which isn't easily obtainable in a single transaction of actually currency to item desired. As with many other mobile and F2P games, there's an intermediary currency that you have to purchase which obfuscates the actual cost AND is typically sold in such a way that you either have left over currency or you're short the exact amount needed.

    It DOES NOT matter in this case study if Orbs can be used for anything else (i.e. Cosmetics, hilts, etc).

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    So a player buying two packs and having extra Orbs - is not losing anything. He has his 50+ packs for bad luck protection and orbs to buy other IMPORTANT stuff.
    But if he doesn't care about the other stuff? Then he has left over currency. If his goal of buying Orbs is to ONLY get gems (via Legendary Crests) then he's basically screwed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    idk, im pretty sure most people are not against big tobaco due to cigaretes causing addiction and costing money, its more the cancer, death, the damage it causes to organism not only of the smoker but of bystanders too...
    so comparing that to games is one of the worst analogies ive ever seen...
    Has there not been cases where people neglect their kids because they've been playing some online game so exclusively? And for gacha games, there is a monetary cost that is also a factor beyond just time invested.

    So we're not just looking at mental health but also potentially financial health.

    Yes yes, I know others will point out that if an addict knows what tempts him/her then they shouldn't engage in that activity, but as others have pointed out, sometimes folks don't even realize that they are addicts (or can be converted into one) due to the design of said product.
    Last edited by Alroxas; 2022-06-10 at 02:52 PM.
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  10. #1790
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerot View Post
    You can spend money to start a clan, reach end game and join the shadows to progress, which deletes your clan because it isn't a shadow clan.
    In the beta, it costed 100K gold to create a clan.
    Blizzard changes it to platinum the last minutes.
    This game is too much for me.

    Blizzard games are worse and worse.
    I have $300 battle.net balance nothing to spend on.

  11. #1791
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    You can stick to whatever you want. Just know that you are wrong. Whales don't spend if there's no one to show off to. That's why Fortnite's Cosmetic only battle pass is so successful that even DI has it.
    And yet here I've also given my own example of a megasuccessful game where no one does co-op and yet people still super-whale (not just streamers). Again, genshin doesn't have random match-made activities for anything good, just artifact farming, and I guarantee no one is doing grouping for that because it's so boring and faceroll. At best, they're grouping with friends.

    You can go on making assumptions you're not logically allowed to make and assuming your examples are more valid than mine, but just know that you're not actually sure if you're right and have no reason to ACTUALLY think you're as right as you think you are.

  12. #1792
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Really you doubt a company that supported the biggest MMO for almost 18 years and still keeps going with it?
    A stupid mobile game is peanuts compared to that.

    Your personal experience is not a valid basis for anything but your personal opinion.
    And you base this on your gigantic amount of game development experience, correct?

  13. #1793
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Or it could be a cleverly designed system to force players to buy just a bit more than they need to achieve the objective they want.
    That assumes the knowledge of what the player wants. As I said overthinking. Seeing malice where there is none. Seek and you will find, right?

    The little trick you were alluding to is to make your cheapest pack not to be enough to buy enough of the cheapest items - to trigger a second purchase. But that's mostly achieved by pricing the items above the pack. Since premium currency is not used exclusively for one kind of item and all packs cannot be priced against all items.

    But people here are talking about $100 pack. As if a person dropping $100 - is tricked to have more orbs than he needs. Again assuming to know what that person needs.
    Last edited by Elim Garak; 2022-06-10 at 02:50 PM.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  14. #1794
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Or it could be a cleverly designed system to force players to buy just a bit more than they need to achieve the objective they want.

    For instance, Blizzard could have easily put in a SCALING slider allowing players to buy anywhere from 1 orb to 8000+ orb and compute the price of a formula. Then add a simple bonus system where if you spend X amount, they will "kick in" an extra amount of orbs.




    Where did I say that orbs are only used for crests? I don't think that was ever my argument. My argument is that for a player who wants a guaranteed legendary gem (via the pity system) needs 50 crests which isn't easily obtainable in a single transaction of actually currency to item desired. As with many other mobile and F2P games, there's an intermediary currency that you have to purchase which obfuscates the actual cost AND is typically sold in such a way that you either have left over currency or you're short the exact amount needed.

    It DOES NOT matter in this case study if Orbs can be used for anything else (i.e. Cosmetics, hilts, etc).



    But if he doesn't care about the other stuff? Then he has left over currency. If his goal of buying Orbs is to ONLY get gems (via Legendary Crests) then he's basically screwed.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Has there not been cases where people neglect their kids because they've been playing some online game so exclusively? And for gacha games, there is a monetary cost that is also a factor beyond just time invested.

    So we're not just looking at mental health but also potentially financial health.

    Yes yes, I know others will point out that if an addict knows what tempts him/her then they shouldn't engage in that activity, but as others have pointed out, sometimes folks don't even realize that they are addicts (or can be converted into one) due to the design of said product.
    The solution to those issues was the Chinese government setting legal limits on how long people are allowed to play video games each day. I wonder how many people realise they are arguing for this sort of system when they protest "exploitative" and addictive video game mechanics.

  15. #1795
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    And yet here I've also given my own example of a megasuccessful game where no one does co-op and yet people still super-whale (not just streamers). Again, genshin doesn't have random match-made activities for anything good, just artifact farming, and I guarantee no one is doing grouping for that because it's so boring and faceroll. At best, they're grouping with friends.
    First of all that's not the only reason to whale.
    Secondly you cannot guarantee anythign in that regard
    Lastly, friends are players too. And whaling for friends is even more appealing to whales, especially sharing the whale oil with them.

    Whales are humans and subject to human psychology. It's just they have a lot more money and that changes perspectives for them in such a way that people with a simple office job cannot comprehend.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    You can go on making assumptions you're not logically allowed to make and assuming your examples are more valid than mine, but just know that you're not actually sure if you're right and have no reason to ACTUALLY think you're as right as you think you are.
    That's rather a very long way to say "you are invalid"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    And you base this on your gigantic amount of game development experience, correct?
    And I base what?
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  16. #1796
    Pandaren Monk Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    DI is very popular in US on iOS devices.

    #1 Downloads 1-8 June
    #7 Revenue 1-8 June - above Genshin Impact, #1 is Candy Crush
    Well it did just come out so I would expect downloads to be high initially. Let's see how DI downloads stack up after a month or two. Better yet, let's take a look at concurrent users at the 3 month mark.

    Sure Blizzard just reported something like 10 million downloads of DI but how many are still playing (even at the very casual level)? Granted for Blizzard actual player base numbers don't mean much to them. They will be happy with the handful of whales that keep pouring money into their coffers which I guess is the goal anyway.
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  17. #1797
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Well it did just come out so I would expect downloads to be high initially. Let's see how DI downloads stack up after a month or two. Better yet, let's take a look at concurrent users at the 3 month mark.

    Sure Blizzard just reported something like 10 million downloads of DI but how many are still playing (even at the very casual level)? Granted for Blizzard actual player base numbers don't mean much to them. They will be happy with the handful of whales that keep pouring money into their coffers which I guess is the goal anyway.
    It's 10 days already. And it dominates the charts. Downloads will surely drop as the market is not infinite. But what they achieved is the feat of strength in mobile market. They are a hit.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  18. #1798
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    But people here are talking about $100 pack. As if a person dropping $100 - is tricked to have more orbs than he needs. Again assuming to know what that person needs.
    Go back and look at the math... A $100 pack can only buy you 45 crests... 5 short of the 50 you need to guarantee a legendary gem via DI's pity system.
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  19. #1799
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Go back and look at the math... A $100 pack can only buy you 45 crests... 5 short of the 50 you need to guarantee a legendary gem via DI's pity system.
    Read again what you quoted. Emphasis as if "a person who dropped a $100" would care about THAT.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  20. #1800
    Pandaren Monk Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Read again what you quoted. Emphasis as if "a person who dropped a $100" would care about THAT.
    And again, you keep side stepping the issue... You know what I'm done here... There's no moving the needle here and we're just going to agree to disagree period. Further discussion is quite frankly pointless. You're not going to change my opinion and I'm not going to change yours.
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