Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Elim Garak]

The people who complain about how long everything takes to grind for free - are probably the same people who were grinding 24/7 in Legion and maxed out Artifact Power before the first patch that implemented catch up mechanics.

[Strawberry]

Lvl 31 atm. Yes I've spent money but didn't need to. I bought the battle pass, the cheaper one, then I upgraded to the more expensive. Also bought some very cheap packs.
It's annoying that everything is character bound and not account bound. This is where the real money sink is.
I don't see myself buying consumables to increase my drops. I think the whole gameplay in Diablo is about grinding for gear, not buying it outright. When you do that the game loses its purpose.
The game is pretty good.

[MrFawlty]

I thought it would be obvious. That people having more money - get to buy more things - and that's fair. So p2w is not inherently unfair.

Making a note of this comment, Its unbeliveable.

[Redroniksre]

If a mobile game like this makes a ton of money, then why bother developing something on PC which may be more wholesome, but only generates a fraction of the profit? This is a slippery slope, and if it isn't stopped now, then gaming as we know it will become a gaming as a service hell hole.

So what are people doing to stop it? Stopping Diablo Immortal won't do shit, given there are hundreds of other games doing the same thing. Best way I can think of is trying to raise awareness with average joes and try to get these practices banned. But I highly doubt 90% of the people in this thread bitching, or the youtubers making videos, have any intention of doing any of that. Easier to call it a Blizzard problem, then forget about it in a few months.

[Niwes]

Q: What does Amber Heard and ATVI Blizzard both have in common?
A: They tried.

[Magical Mudcrab]

More of the "I got my opinions from youtubers" crowd, I see.

More of the "I don't understand the issues at play so I'm going to make a flippant statement about youtubers and imply that anyone who uses well laid out summaries made by anyone other than themselves is an idiot" crowd, I see.

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Q: What does Amber Heard and ATVI Blizzard both have in common?
A: They tried.

If we want to be even spicier:
Q: What does Amber Heard and ATVI Blizzard both have in common?
A: They both assault women.

[Niwes]

More of the "I don't understand the issues at play so I'm going to make a flippant statement about youtubers and imply that anyone who uses well laid out summaries made by anyone other than themselves is an idiot" crowd, I see.

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If we want to be even spicier:
Q: What does Amber Heard and ATVI Blizzard both have in common?
A: They both assault women.

ouch! nice one!

[Jerot]

here's what I'm wondering. why are some of you so stuck on just pure xp when the bigger issue are player power? l

Because every other point has been brought up multiple times and the same people keep hand waving it away. Buying EXP and gear are two things the game director claim we can't buy and yet...

I thought it would be obvious. That people having more money - get to buy more things - and that's fair. So p2w is not inherently unfair.

Wow, this is your worst take so far.

The people who complain about how long everything takes to grind for free - are probably the same people who were grinding 24/7 in Legion and maxed out Artifact Power before the first patch that implemented catch up mechanics.

Ah yes, I remember how they made it slow so they could sell you Artifact Power boosts... Oh wait, they didn't did they?

[Roanda]

Is it true only whales can put on marketplace 5 star gems?
Because only whales have access to "not-bound" 5 star gem drops?

So...

Marketplace would be empty without whales? Thats funny

[Jerot]

Is it true only whales can put on market place 5 star gems?
Because only whales have access to "not-bound" 5 star gem drops?

So...

Market place would be empty without whales? Thats funny

Yep, Eternal Legendary Crests are paid only. Can't have F2P peasants selling gems to make platinum, they might keep up!

[Elim Garak]

Wow, this is your worst take so far.

And yet no one disputed the truth in it.

Ah yes, I remember how they made it slow so they could sell you Artifact Power boosts... Oh wait, they didn't did they?

They made you pay several months worth of a sub. They forced you to play for months grinding that shit, instead of letting you play for a month to level cap and unsub till the patch. Predators.

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Yep, Eternal Legendary Crests are paid only.

That's a lie.

[Roanda]

That's a lie.

This is your chance to prove a youtuber wrong! This is it!

Tell us why is youtube lying to me!

[Elim Garak]

This is your chance to prove a youtuber wrong! This is it!

Tell us why is youtube lying to me!

What youtube?

But legendary crests can be acquired for free. Via battle pass (the free one), and login rewards.

Also, a free to play player can sell gems on the market (and whales would need gems to rank up their 5-star gems) to get Platinum and then use that platinum to buy 5-star gems that whales would put up for sale - in the future obviously.

That's a very neat market system Blizz has designed. A RMAH with extra steps.

[Roanda]

What youtube?

But legendary crests can be acquired for free. Via battle pass (the free one), and login rewards.

Also, a free to play player can sell gems on the market (and whales would need gems to rank up their 5-star gems) to get Platinum and then use that platinum to buy 5-star gems that whales would put up for sale - in the future obviously.

That's a very neat market system Blizz has designed. A RMAH with extra steps.

But this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF--ytWn8mU

Said there is 2 kinds of crests.
The F2P options you mentioned DONT drop unbound versions of the gems. they only drop "bound" ones.

He even used hyperbole on video that marketplace would be empty whitout the p2w players.

[Elim Garak]

But this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF--ytWn8mU

Said there is 2 kinds of crests.
The F2P options you mentioned DONT drop unbound versions of the gems. they only drop "bound" ones.

That's incorrect. There are indeed BoE and BoP gems depends on whether they are drops or rewards. Which appears to be random. The Crest itself can affect the chances of getting unbound ones, sure. But f2p players can definitely get unboung gems to sell on the market. And I believe they can also craft them.

He even used hyperbole on video that marketplace would be empty whitout the p2w players.

That assumes Blizzard are morons. I find it more likely that it's either the Youtuber is a moron or just it's their way of attracting more views.

[Gaidax]

Is it true only whales can put on marketplace 5 star gems?
Because only whales have access to "not-bound" 5 star gem drops?

So...

Marketplace would be empty without whales? Thats funny

Not true, you can still get unbound legendary gems dropping just like that. I had 3 so far and I play for only 2 days total. You can also just craft them.

What legendary crests do is that they guarantee a legendary gem drop for the rift run.

What is true that as F2P player you will have much less unbound gems to trade and of course much less chances to even see a worthwhile gem.


There is plenty toxic monetization there, but I do have to say that players need to calm the fuck down, because quite frankly - it's like every game ever, give it a month or two and the supply as well as value of top gems will drop, as well as people realizing that it's not some zero sum game where you either are decked with 5-stars or may not bother.

I also bet that like every Diablo game ever - they will release update/expansion down the road that will soft-retire this all anyway.

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And before people draw their pitchforks out, I reiterate - Blizz could put half the bullshit they put out in the store and still make wads of $$ just fine. Some of the shit there is just pure greed and it's very unfortunate, because the game itself is pretty good.

I have no doubt that Immortal will bring Blizz ungodly $$ and will be pretty successful. I just hope they won't be encouraged to fill Diablo 4 with this crap to such an extent.

[thilicen]

Topic aside, can we make it legal to slap everyone who puts their face on their thumbnail with their mouth hanging open like that? ><

I make a point of never clicking on a single video that does this, and if it shows up on my front page I immediately tell youtube to stop reccomending that channel.

[Jerot]

And yet no one disputed the truth in it.

Because it completely misses the point? Any game company that adds P2W mechanics is prioritizing profits over game balance. Product quality suffers because they are constantly weighing how much value they should give you now to keep you invested versus how much to hold back to sell to you later. A good product just works, you want to play it because it's entertaining, you aren't pressured into spending money so you don't have to. Paying should give you more content to enjoy, not less.

Competitive game modes in any other title are for players to see how their skills and game knowledge stack up against other players. In DI they serve as an additional pain point to make you want to spend more money on the game to remain competitive. It turns the game into an arms race between players, with the developer being the sole arms dealer.

Challenging content is no longer an interesting puzzle to solve for entertainment, it becomes another excuse to sell people the solution. So why not make it even harder or longer to solve to make buying the way around it all the more "valuable". They want you to think, I value my 2 months more than $6, so why not just spend? But they are the ones who set those rates, they are wasting your time and frustrating you with unfair mechanics because it's profitable.

It's the exact mechanic games like Candy Crush use to extort people for money to buy boosts through unfairly hard levels. They get you invested by giving you a taste for free, and they throw up bigger and bigger hurdles to overcome, you just want to keep playing because at it's core it's fun, but you aren't given a fair chance unless you pay.

If you want me to go to the core of your argument, the value of money is different depending where you are in the world. $5 US could be half, or even close to a third of the minimum wage where you live, or it could be a months worth of hard labor. The game doesn't care.

They made you pay several months worth of a sub. They forced you to play for months grinding that shit, instead of letting you play for a month to level cap and unsub till the patch. Predators.

They wanted to keep the progression relevant throughout the expansion, adding a catch-up mechanic actually made it so you didn't have to log-in every month. It kept people around the same artifact progression, hardcore players hit the soft cap and more casual players were only a couple of levels behind.

If you took time off the rates would be faster when you got back so you could acquire power faster. The rate multiplied exponentially as did the required AP per level, so lower levels were even easier to skip with the boost. We started the expansion gaining hundreds of AP and by the end it was millions/billions. If there wasn't a catch-up mechanic and you missed a month, you would have been screwed because most good sources were time-gated. If you could cap it in the first month, they couldn't use it as a compelling reward mechanic for the rest of the expansion.

You could have probably maxed it out in a single month by the end of the expansion if you didn't want to keep playing.

If you want to compare that to DI, the EXP catch-up mechanic is a flat 200% because they want you login in every day to stay competitive. This is expanded on by daily login bonuses and caps on legendaries, normal gems, and materials. They want you on every single day because it forms habits, to the point where they will punish you for missing a day even as a paying player. They want you in that store looking at bundles everytime you collect your daily rewards. It's a constant reminder that hey, it could be a little easier if you just give us some money.

[Elim Garak]

What is true that as F2P player you will have much less unbound gems to trade and of course much less chances to even see a worthwhile gem.


There is plenty toxic monetization there,

Not really, it is most likely a balancing decision. Out of 10M who downloaded the game no more than 3M have paid. Which means that 7M will be doing regular rifts for their gems, if they got unbound gems aplenty the market would be flooded and there will be gem inflation. So they have most likely adjusted the drop rates to account for the greater mass of gem producers.

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Because it completely misses the point? Any game company that adds P2W mechanics is prioritizing profits over game balance.

No, it completely destroys the point, just like the thing I will say next:
Any for-profit company is prioritizing profits over everything else.
It's a balance you know. Between profits and everything else.

If you don't like the balance they've got - you know where's the door, right? Vote with your wallet AND your feet.

They wanted to keep the progression relevant throughout the expansion

*laughs in ironic*

Why are you defending predatory techniques?

[Gaidax]

Not really, it is most likely a balancing decision. Out of 10M who downloaded the game no more than 3M have paid. Which means that 7M will be doing regular rifts for their gems, if they got unbound gems aplenty the market would be flooded and there will be gem inflation. So they have most likely adjusted the drop rates to account for the greater mass of gem producers.

What are you even talking about? "Not really"?

Of course it's "yes really" buddy. It's not a "balancing decision", it's just a business decision that all.

Here's a hint, if a game has a design flaw that is conveniently solved by money, then it's not a design flaw. It's a design intent and the intent is to get those greens.

It's ok to like Immortal - I like Immortal, I think it plays real well and it has a lot of cool stuff in it D3 should have had all along. But, c'mon bruh, this sticking tongue deep into Blizz crack and defending the outright predatory MTX plan is just pathetic.

Praise the gameplay, not the cancer piece of shit cash grab part of it. Of all things to defend - Legendary Gems acquisition and market are not the one, even if you can correct some details about it (which do not change the essence).