Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Nymrohd]

This is the problem.
You are 'trained' to blindly pay them in advance for content that can be total dogshit.

I'd assume most people pay their subs for continued access to existing content that is repeatable or they have not yet completed.

[Dorfadin]

Got to level 20 game seems ok, abit clunky on the PC, but its mobile, however, after watching ASmongold talk to some super whales, it costs approx 50,000 dollars to fully max out the gear on 1 character, legendary gems and all, honestly thats beyond disgusting, I think I will stick to Path of Exiles which is free to max gear out and buy a TESLA car.

[Gorsameth]

Got to level 20 game seems ok, abit clunky on the PC, but its mobile, however, after watching ASmongold talk to some super whales, it costs approx 50,000 dollars to fully max out the gear on 1 character, legendary gems and all, honestly thats beyond disgusting, I think I will stick to Path of Exiles which is free to max gear out and buy a TESLA car.

50k to max out in 17 hours and then sit around being bored. I guess some idiots pay for the privilege of being bored.

How much would that number come down if you played for 2 hours a day for a month? Or 2 months?

Shockingly, in a f2p Play to progress faster game its expensive to progress to the end instantly. Who could have predicted this!

[Soulwind]

16+ is not really children though. You can't really compare it with selling drugs, because that is illegal for the most part. It's more like selling a basic car for 10k and when you get all the additional stuff you need then it costs 30k. Except here the car costs nothing and the additional things are the only cost.

"You can't compare selling something currently illegal to selling something currently legal that people are arguing should be illegal".

I mean, look at the whole thing with opioids. That's legal as of now, so it's fine, right? Just honest people doing honest business.

The law is slow, especially when it comes to new technologies, but these companies are intentionally making addictive games with deceptive payment models and they are not only well aware of the harm they do, but exploiting it as much as they are allowed. We're talking about entire games built around making the user feel compelled to spend as much money as possible to get as little as possible.

Diablo Immortal, Hearthstone, HotS and Overwatch may not be the worst ones out there, by a long shot, but they are part of the problem. And the fact that a company like Blizzard, that a decade or so ago was often used as an example of "not all of them are bad" has aimed for such low hanging fruits shows how dangerous easy money is, it's hard to convince higher ups and investors that your company shouldn't make money at the expense of the customer.

[thilicen]

The game has a lot of details and features so they have to slowly unlock them for you as you progress. Otherwise new players would be overwhelmed by all the information.


It's just the game letting you know that an option is available.


-It's not a predatory business model. There's nothing unethical about it.
-Nobody is forced to play and nobody is entitled to their preferred game experience unless they created the game.
-You can experience most of the game for free.
-As far as I know F2P players can still achieve almost all of the same things but at a slower rate.

lol get the fuck out, seriously. Cosmetic armor sets at $15 (and surprise surprise, you can't buy the exact amount of "gems" you need for a single purchase), that is ONE cosmetic armor set valued at almost half the value of a full-feature WoW expansion pack, not even fucking account wide. This is another low point for Blizzard. End of.

[Nymrohd]

lol get the fuck out, seriously. Cosmetic armor sets at $15 (and surprise surprise, you can't buy the exact amount of "gems" you need for a single purchase), not even fucking account wide. This is another low point for Blizzard. End of.

It's cosmetic? You get decent ones from the Codex and Battle Pass just playing the game, it's not like your only other option is to look like a clown.

[RobertMugabe]

lol get the fuck out, seriously. Cosmetic armor sets at $15 (and surprise surprise, you can't buy the exact amount of "gems" you need for a single purchase), that is ONE cosmetic armor set valued at almost half the value of a full-feature WoW expansion pack, not even fucking account wide. This is another low point for Blizzard. End of.

Srsly, you and other should really look up a dictionary or something. It seems like you all just learned a new word "predatory", because of Bellular and are now using it everywhere.

The game is P2W, yes, but it's also a free game where you have many hours of actual fun without spending a single cent (which was what I did). I still have yet to see anything about it that says "predatory" or "unethical". Again, it's P2W and I'd rather pay for a game once and have a complete experience. If I don't like the game, then I just won't play it.

I only wonder why you all "concerned" people are taking the release of this game so personally, as an insult and is if Blizzard is trying to shove this game down your throat, when it clearly isn't the case.

[MoFalcon]

it actually looks like a fun game. obviously being a f2p mobile game, it will be p2w or pay-2-speeduprewards... how are people surprised (or appaled) by this?

People just like to complain about shit. Some people are not happy unless they are ruining the experience for everyone else. Other peoples misery actually makes them happy.

And when it comes to these Forums, most of the discussions I see are started by these people. Par.

[DarkAmbient]

Pathetic to see people defending scummy P2W systems that are so bad they're banned in some countries.

[Lathspell]

You are 'trained' to blindly pay them in advance for content that can be total dogshit.

The thing is that I'm not paying for future content, I'm paying for access to the game in general. For expansions you pay a price for content, but not while paying the sub-fee in my opinion. They could split the payment of the x-pack into 3-4 patch sized 15-20€ bits and then maybe you could choose to buy the patch or not.

Edit: Also I don't think WoW has had a "dog-shit" content patch, there always was something to do for me. Even when I quit from MoP-BFA it was mostly just not liking the theme of MoP and having a lot of other stuff to do in life.

[RobertMugabe]

Oh look the always-convincing-and-never-totally-cringeworthy argument that anyone with a differing opinion must be paid!

Or must be a bot or loser or retarded or a whale etc.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world knows that it's actually all these "real gamers" who tend to be more socially akward, obese etc.

- - - Updated - - -

This is the problem.
You are 'trained' to blindly pay them in advance for content that can be total dogshit.

You could say the same for buying a game at retail too...
Or for that matter buying anything.

What a non-argument and poor attempt at calling Blizzard's business manipulative.

That is how these p2w mobile games work.
At beginning 'everything' is for free - many currencies/gems/gold drop in tons... but suddenly in a few hours you will hit a wall that is kinda frustrating - you will use your wallet or quit (which is hard because you started to liking the game and want more).

Not the case with DI. The p2w "model" is totally different as you describe.

- - - Updated - - -

Pathetic to see people defending scummy P2W systems that are so bad they're banned in some countries.

7 pages later and no one has so far written down what is exactly so scummy about DI. Maybe you want to elaborate?

It's P2W, true and I dislike that, but I still fail to see what is so in particular "scummy", "unethical", or the meme word of the week: "predatory" about DI's business model.

[Lolites]

But since these models are legitimately unhealthy for the users (particularly children), they should absolutely be regulated and/or banned, which will force publishers to do better.

now, here i must disagree, a bit, nothing against some regulations but:
you should know if you are prone to addiction and hence avoid this kind of games (like if you are recovering alcoholic shouldnt go to wine tasting)

now, for children - that should be responsibility of PARENTS, not companies... problem is parents suck my cousin have 3 kids, they couldnt agree who will be on pc when so she bought them tablets, i was shocked, like wtf is that when they were visiting and wanted to play on PS and couldnt agree i turned it off so nobody plays, she literaly rewarded them for being shitty
that being said, it still should be pushed as parents responsibility, otherwise if we change every law so parents dont have to do jack shit we are in for a shitty times when todays kids grow up

[Nymrohd]

It's P2W, true and I dislike that, but I still fail to see what is so in particular "scummy", "unethical", or the meme word of the week: "predatory" about DI's business model.

If you want predatory look no further than D3 as it was originally released. Very low drop rates gating any progression either behind an insane grind or trading together with a system that allow Blizzard to grab a fee for every trade. Made even worse by the fact that the game was very challenging so you would feel powerless if you did not upgrade your gear somehow.
Now that is predatory because at no point was the messaging clear. The play test was extremely limited so no one could tell how the rewards would work.

[Khaza-R]

Not saying this will be the case but I would rather them keep their scummy P2W tactics in mobile games then trying to add them to flagship titles like D4.

[Soulwind]

now, here i must disagree, a bit, nothing against some regulations but:
you should know if you are prone to addiction and hence avoid this kind of games (like if you are recovering alcoholic shouldnt go to wine tasting)

now, for children - that should be responsibility of PARENTS, not companies... problem is parents suck my cousin have 3 kids, they couldnt agree who will be on pc when so she bought them tablets, i was shocked, like wtf is that when they were visiting and wanted to play on PS and couldnt agree i turned it off so nobody plays, she literaly rewarded them for being shitty
that being said, it still should be pushed as parents responsibility, otherwise if we change every law so parents dont have to do jack shit we are in for a shitty times when todays kids grow up

Agree that parents must be responsible to what their kids have access to, but companies can't just shrug and say that they didn't expect something like Clash Royale or Fortnite to be extremely attractive to children as if they didn't intentionally design it that way.

The whole point of laws is that individual responsibility only goes so far, and some stuff has to be enforced to prevent unnecessary harm.

Children who go to the drug dealer should have been taught better, but there shouldn't be anyone dealing drugs in front of the school in the first place.

Again, this is not specifically about Diablo Immortal. But it's not like they aren't making Arclight Rumble next. As I said, they'll go as far as they are allowed.

[Nymrohd]

Not saying this will be the case but I would rather them keep their scummy P2W tactics in mobile games then trying to add them to flagship titles like D4.

At the same time, if people want continued support for D4, they shouldn't have any illusions that it will just be B2P. There will be a seasonal battle pass of some sort

- - - Updated - - -

Agree that parents must be responsible to what their kids have access to, but companies can't just shrug and say that they didn't expect something like Clash Royale or Fortnite to be extremely attractive to children as if they didn't intentionally design it that way.

The whole point of laws is that individual responsibility only goes so far, and some stuff has to be enforced to prevent unnecessary harm.

Children who go to the drug dealer should have been taught better, but there shouldn't be anyone dealing drugs in front of the school in the first place.

Again, this is not specifically about Diablo Immortal. But it's not like they aren't making Arclight Rumble next. As I said, they'll go as far as they are allowed.

I think then the issue is with the platform that would advertise the game to kids rather than the game itself.

[RobertMugabe]

If you want predatory look no further than D3 as it was originally released. Very low drop rates gating any progression either behind an insane grind or trading together with a system that allow Blizzard to grab a fee for every trade. Made even worse by the fact that the game was very challenging so you would feel powerless if you did not upgrade your gear somehow.
Now that is predatory because at no point was the messaging clear. The play test was extremely limited so no one could tell how the rewards would work.

Yeah I agree.

I even mentioned D3 in another thread I think, as an actual example of a predatory game, not just for the reasons you state, but also for the fact that it was a game you had to buy. And also the RMAH.

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Agree that parents must be responsible to what their kids have access to, but companies can't just shrug and say that they didn't expect something like Clash Royale or Fortnite to be extremely attractive to children as if they didn't intentionally design it that way.

The whole point of laws is that individual responsibility only goes so far, and some stuff has to be enforced to prevent unnecessary harm.

Children who go to the drug dealer should have been taught better, but there shouldn't be anyone dealing drugs in front of the school in the first place.

Again, this is not specifically about Diablo Immortal. But it's not like they aren't making Arclight Rumble next. As I said, they'll go as far as they are allowed.

To be fair, while you are right, I very much doubt that Diablo Immortal is even really going to be played much by children.

The idea that only kids and "whales" will play DI is probably not true and that's what people in this community just anyways to insult others, rather than it being a fair observation. I'd say that children and women (in any shape) will only present a very small number of DI's actual playerbase (also just looking at the reviews on the google play store it seems like all of them are male adults).

Furthermore, DI has a PEGI rating of 16, so they're absolutely not catering to children anyways. If they wanted to push their limits, they would've made a more family friendly game with a lower age restriction. But with this, most ads won't even reach kids.

[Dakara]

Yes it’s predatory pricing.
Yes it’s pay to win.
Yes, it’s disgustingly common in the mobile games market.

And yes, I’m currently enjoying a free Diablo game on my iPad that I would of happily paid $20(NZD) for but instead will pay nothing.

The sad reality is, one idiot dropping $100k on a mobile game is worth 5000 “box” sales at $20 a pop, and some of those idiots will be streamers people in this tread are possibly subbed to. They take your subs, pay to win, then get more subs because of it.
Why deal with hundreds of thousands of customers who gave you a measly $20 when you can milk a few hundred whales instead? They don’t care about silly things like game balance, they paid their way to win. Welcome to mobile gaming.

But again, as far as free games go, this one’s alright, so delete it off your pc, put it on your phone, play it on the bus, the couch, even the toilet and pass the time until D4.

-edit-

I should note, there’s no “need” to win in these games, so long as you’re having fun. I never “won” in D2 or D3 either… there was always someone else with more time and more patience to farm than I had. But I still had fun.

[Vorkreist]

Why would you even play this trash? It was designed for the Chinese mobile market..

Not really. Its standard for mobile market.
Mix it with the still too large number of blizzard zealots that will spend a lot on anything blizzard related and you have yourself a top earner. I expect raving news in the next investor calls.

[pupu]

I did write "co-developer". I didn't feel it necessary to mention who the other developer is seeing as I was talking about Blizzard.

Oh, no need to mention that the other part is one of most infamous Chinese company ..