Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Elim Garak]

It isn't even a Blizzard game. They licensed the Diablo IP to NetEase. It is a NetEase game, built on the NetEase engine for the Asian market, distributed by Blizzard.

Right, that explains why it dominates download charts in the US. #7 revenue on iOS in US, 1-16 June

[bullseyed]

In short, the conversion of RMT to Eternal Orbs to <insert whatever> is purposely designed so that payers don't have an exact way to buy what they are after. You want Legendary Crests? You're either going to be short by a handful (5 or 10 orbs short at the $5 USD and $10 USD pack sizes) or over (50 orbs over at the $25 size). You want reforging stones? Those are 100 orbs per, no perfect amount pack to buy except the $100 price point (which yields 7200 orbs = 72 stones). Dawning Echoes need 1k orbs so you're out of luck there as well.

Blizzard could have made the cost amount = pack sizes or provided discrete pack sizes to match up to the common prices of those in-shop items. (How hard would it have been to offer a 100 orb pack size, a 160 orb pack size and a 1k orb pack size?). Or if Blizzard couldn't have been bothered to put in specific discrete pack sizes then give us a slider. Let me buy however many orbs from 1 to 1000 on a per Orb cost and you can even have those "bonus" percentage levels if the buyer gets over a certain value - Say at the $5 level, you get 1% bonus orbs "added for free (rounded down)" which then increases to 2% at $10, 5% at $25, etc etc.

Next are you going to whine that items at the store cost $19.95 instead of $20.00?

If you want 160 of a thing, you can buy 100 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 to get exactly 160. Or you can just buy 200, which is probably cheaper, and have 40 leftover.

Then later you get 20 from some random event, buy 100 more and get a second item even cheaper.


Or do what you suggest, give no volume discount, and make everything more expensive.

- - - Updated - - -

Right, that explains why it dominates download charts in the US. #7 revenue on iOS in US, 1-16 June

There is no relationship between the text you quoted and your reply.

Diablo Immortal is only released outside of Asia because the cost to do so is relatively zero. How popular it is or is not outside of Asia is irrelevant.

[Elim Garak]

There is no relationship between the text you quoted and your reply.

Diablo Immortal is only released outside of Asia because the cost to do so is relatively zero. How popular it is or is not outside of Asia is irrelevant.

It's the most popular game in US right now and in top 10 revenue bringer in US.
Clearly it wasn't designed for Asian market.

[Aliven]

Aside from that cancer comparison which makes no sense whatsoever

Yeah, i think fat people should just lose weight, exercise and eat healthy IF they want to get slim.
And gamblers should just stop gambling IF that will help them get on with their life or smth along those lines.
Same goes for every habit or activity people have DIRECT control over.

As for impulse control disorder - well those people should go seek professional help if that is the case, and if you look at the statistics - such people are a minority. And even though i am pretty skeptical when it comes to such disorders ( same goes for ADHD ) - keep those people away from gambling, provide professional help if necessary.

You are forgetting one little thing, there are tons of P2W mobile games apart from Blizzard's DI that has been doing the same thing over and over for years. And what are you going to do about it?

How to prevent world hunger? Well lets just give everyone healthy meal!

[Alroxas]

Next are you going to whine that items at the store cost $19.95 instead of $20.00?

Technically that's also a psychological trick.. I'm not really spending $20... Just $19.95 which is why in my example I rounded up instead of using the $0.99, $4.99, $9.99, etc price points.

If you want 160 of a thing, you can buy 100 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 to get exactly 160. Or you can just buy 200, which is probably cheaper, and have 40 leftover.

Can you even buy 10 orbs? I thought the lowest number you can buy is 60? Is there even an option to buy exactly 100 orbs?

Then later you get 20 from some random event, buy 100 more and get a second item even cheaper.

Or how about the random event gives the exact amount needed to redeem for a crest or a stone? Why are Crests priced at 160 orbs instead of 100 like a stone? Sure I can see why Dawning Echoes are 1k (they represent a much bigger thing) but 1k is dividable by 100 so it fits well instead of 160 or 60.

Or do what you suggest, give no volume discount, and make everything more expensive.

Odd I'm pretty sure I said you can keep that "volume discount" in my example.


In any case, the problem remains that Blizzard (with NetEase influence) choose to make their systems just that much more predatory by creating the system in such a way that mismatches in the various currencies frequently occur to leverage payers from spending more.

Also do we really need 22 currencies for a F2P game? 22... Let that sink in.

[Hctaz]

In DI you can get everything for free - but you will have to grind for a long time.

Okay but that is a straight up lie though. You can't awaken your gear without spending real money.
Not only that, but the amount of "grinding" (grinding meaning in game play time required) is nonexistent for things like farming 5 star legendary gems. You can only get them through Legendary Crests, and those are heavily time gated and only time gated.

You talk about how WoW is predatory because you have to pay and then they time gate content, but what about the situation with Immortal where acquiring Legendary Crests is strictly time gated and you're merely paying to skip waiting the arbitrary amount of real life time that Blizzard has mandated you to wait? I would argue you're correct if you could infinitely grind for Legendary Crests, but you simply can't. No amount of in game time spent grinding will help you skip the 1 per month restriction.

[rhorle]

Right, someone who makes $50,000 vs someone else making $1,000,000,000, still has money. Except relatively they have almost zero money.

They still make $50,000 and in the context of Diablo Immortal that $50,000 player can still do the content in the game, right? It is nothing but exaggeration. Of course better geared players will out perform lesser geared. But your damage compared to the better geared players is irrelevant. It is how you can do the content of the game that is the important thing. So you don't do zero damage for PvE content which is why it is a silly statement.

[Unseen Guest]

Anyone with a functional brain would know that playing a free mobile game will not have a reasonable end game to max. You will always pay out to "win" which is irrelevant since ull never be top for long. I mean come on. I've been playing the game since launch and not spent a single penny. I'm having a blast. The bosses are awesome. Very little problems. I look cool. And I'm on my third character to max level.

The predatory cash grab crap, while it can be annoying, it doesn't stop me from playing a brand new quality game for free and im doing just fine.

Here are the types of people that should not play this game:

- gamble recovery
- basement dwellers with their parents credit card
- close minded people who only see the evil in everyone and everything around them (80% of this thread) and will never admit this game can be completed without paying a penny
- people who obsess with being maxed out on a mobile game lmfao


Get over yourselves with this predatory cash shop bs. It's bs. Its a free mobile game. Of course there are going to be monetization in the game ffs. Otherwise how else do they make their money back for the investment? And here is the holy shit idea. Don't spend a penny and just play the God damned game. Stop being little children being whiny little kids at daycare. Either play it or don't. Stop bitching about it. All bitching does is make you sound like a bunch of pathetic dorks. And we are sick of hearing you complaining about it. We get it. You wanna max out on a game not meant to be maxed out but u can't afford it. So u just complain like anyone gives a shit. We don't care.

You really want to kill this game? Stop talking about it. Let it die on its own. The more u bitch and complain, the more visibility the game gets and it retains popularity and continues bringing in revenue. Stop talking about it. Stop playing it and the game will die on its own.

DUH!

Get over it. Move on. Grow the fuck up and act like a responsible adult who knows how to spend their own money. Blizz doesn't own ur money. YOU DO! Act like it.

Now, I'll go play my free game while u idiots continue bitching about it.

[NineSpine]

Some of you guys have been having real issues with things like agency and causation.

I think we've been through this before regarding making choices versus having something happen to you, but yeah...your food having e.coli that you can't know about isn't the same thing as choosing to spend money in a game.

Nobody forced you to eat the food. See how dumb this is?

[Elim Garak]

Okay but that is a straight up lie though. You can't awaken your gear without spending real money.
Not only that, but the amount of "grinding" (grinding meaning in game play time required) is nonexistent for things like farming 5 star legendary gems. You can only get them through Legendary Crests, and those are heavily time gated and only time gated.

First of all, you don't know if you can't awaken gems without spending money. The item used for that might as well drop somewhere (that no one got the drop yet) or be rewarded from seasonal events.
Secondly, as you noted, free players are not even anywhere close to worry about awakening. So even if right now the only way to get the awakening item is with Orbs - that means jack shit for a free player.
Lastly, awakening is not gear. I would not consider a flat out buff for money as something that a free player must be able to get for free. Payers gotta dominate the freesbies in PvP mode. That's a given.

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Nobody forced you to eat the food. See how dumb this is?

Every time you order food delivery - you are gambling.

[NineSpine]

Some of you guys have been having real issues with things like agency and causation.

I think we've been through this before regarding making choices versus having something happen to you, but yeah...your food having e.coli that you can't know about isn't the same thing as choosing to spend money in a game.

Also worth noting that the guy I was responding to agreed with my sarcasm. He says you should get the e coli.

[arkanon]

Anyone with a functional brain would know that playing a free mobile game will not have a reasonable end game to max. .

Explain PoE then.

[Popastique]

Explain PoE then.

It is not a mobile game

[arkanon]

Every time you order food delivery - you are gambling.

No, you are not. You paid for a good (the food) and a service (the delivery). If either are not up to the standard paid for, you can request a refund. If you pay $5 for food delivery, and the food is not delivered, you can get a refund. Gambling is putting down money with an unknown result, and if you put $5 on black and it lands on white, you cant ask for your $5 back. Do you actually know what gambling is?

[Ghost of Cow]

Nobody forced you to eat the food. See how dumb this is?

And there you go again.

Why do you not understand the difference here? How do you not see the difference between something you choose to do and something that happens to you? Why do you think that jumping in front of a car is the same as someone running you over with a car?

[Elim Garak]

No, you are not. You paid for a good (the food) and a service (the delivery). If either are not up to the standard paid for, you can request a refund. If you pay $5 for food delivery, and the food is not delivered, you can get a refund. Gambling is putting down money with an unknown result, and if you put $5 on black and it lands on white, you cant ask for your $5 back. Do you actually know what gambling is?

Are you sure you covered all the possibilities?

And lol for not getting the sarcasm. Obviously it's not gambling. Just a gamble.

[NineSpine]

And there you go again.

Why do you not understand the difference here? How do you not see the difference between something you choose to do and something that happens to you? Why do you think that jumping in front of a car is the same as someone running you over with a car?

The person I was responding to doesn't see the difference, which is the point I was making. The person I was responding to went on to say that if you eat bad food it is your fault, so clearly I was right to call out the comparison because THE PERSON I WAS RESPONDING TO SEES IT AS COMPARABLE.

Not every conversation is about YOU, as hard as that may be to believe.

[tikcol]

Why even play this game free to play? I already played Diablo 3 a decade ago

Besides all the convoluted systems that make you want to swipe your credit card, this is a stripped down Diablo 3 experience. Which obviously makes me very excited for Diablo 4 yea not really

OH it has PvP which is basically a place to entertain whales and to make the plankton, I mean, the other players frustrated so that they can start morphing into whales of their own

[arkanon]

Why even play this game free to play? I already played Diablo 3 a decade ago

Besides all the convoluted systems that make you want to swipe your credit card, this is a stripped down Diablo 3 experience. Which obviously makes me very excited for Diablo 4 yea not really

OH it has PvP which is basically a place to entertain whales and to make the plankton, I mean, the other players frustrated so that they can start morphing into whales of their own

To be honest, the PvP really does feel like a way to PROVE to the whales that their $25,000 purchase really has made them leagues ahead of the F2P players - like justification of their spend. Which is a bit of a shame, because it does kind of look like it could be fun, if some barbar whale didnt just WW through the whole team killing everyone in 2 shots. lol.

[Biomega]

No, you are not. You paid for a good (the food) and a service (the delivery). If either are not up to the standard paid for, you can request a refund. If you pay $5 for food delivery, and the food is not delivered, you can get a refund. Gambling is putting down money with an unknown result, and if you put $5 on black and it lands on white, you cant ask for your $5 back. Do you actually know what gambling is?

While I'm sure the statement was a joke (even if a rather poor one), that's not quite how gambling works either.

You don't just put money down on an "unknown result" - you put it down on an unknown result FROM A SET RANGE OF RESULTS. And if things fall far enough outside of that range, you have the same recourse as with a messed-up food order. If your dice explode or your card suddenly comes up fifteen of stars or someone runs in and snatches up the roulette ball or whatever, that's still an unknown result - but it's not gambling, and you would get your money back.

In that sense, a food order could also be considered "gambling" just with a much narrower range of results - maybe the food is just a LITTLE different or a LITTLE less tasty than you thought; not enough for a refund, but well within the range of possible results you accept as an outcome for such a transaction. But that's more of a nitpicky technicality than a practical definition.

What's really setting actual gambling apart is two things: 1. the outcome is intentionally determined by chance to some meaningful degree; 2. you accept loss of the stake/wager (or at least a substantial part of it) in the event of an unsuccessful outcome within the predetermined range of the game.

That's why food orders aren't REALLY gambling: you don't expect them to be intentionally random, and you don't accept them to go so wrong you lose your money. That's also why (legitimate) investments or insurance policies aren't gambling: you might lose all your money, but even though they may be subject to "randomness" (bad stuff happens) they're not intentionally designed to be that way.

Where most of the discussion happens is in 1. by the way: how much chance actually determines the outcome. Something like roulette is pretty close to true random (unavoidable physics limitations aside). But something like e.g. poker is much more difficult to gauge - yes it has a lot of randomness in it, but it also has a significant amount of skill. A skilled poker player will get better results over a lesser-skilled player; but no roulette player can get better numbers than any other (and indeed no roulette betting system can ever remain profitable).

That's why it's difficult to determine what's going on in complex games like DI. There's a lot of factors in play where one might argue that chance can be "outplayed". Sure a 0.04% drop is forever a 0.04% drop, but over time more skilled players will still get more than lesser-skilled players (by virtue of playing more efficiently, usually). Is that enough skill to elevate it out of "chance-based" and into "skill-based" more than as a matter of technicality? That's largely for courts to decide.

It's harder than you think. Most people would easily agree that being good at poker means you win more over time and skill directly converts into success; and yet despite that, poker has been legislated in many jurisdiction as gambling, and banned or regulated as a result (see the collapse of US online poker some years back for that very reason). It's a very complicated, very tricky field.