Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Cthulhu 2020]

Believing something in 2022 on the Internet without anything backing up those words or claims? Of course not
People will make shit up, especially when this DI stuff is trending, just to get some attention. People love attention, most of them

And what are these content walls you are speaking of? This is the first time i've heard smthing like that, got me intrigued.

As I said, give zero shits if you believe me. You're a random nobody on the internet. It's real and it's happening. Plenty of people believe political lies because they want to, because they're invested in that ideology. If you're in love with the game, nothing is going to convince you there's anything bad in it, lol.

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Here is one thing I genuinely just do not understand, but also do understand.


Why do people automatically assume that if a game is on mobile, it must make its money through pay to win mechanics?

"Oh well it's on mobile so it's gonna be pay to win!"

In the early days of smart phones in the west, the games were largely just you buy the game, and you play it. There were all kinds of side scrolling zombie games, peggle, angry birds and whatnot. You buy the game and it's yours. No aggressive monetization.

In China, they invented social credit scores because of human behavior. They have human behavior on lock down. They know how people work. They know how to manipulate people. Companies used this psychology to create games that had aggressive and predatory monetization, targeting the few rich people in those countries. Rather than making quality games, they went for monetization.

During the 2010's, this model of mobile game was heavily rejected by western audiences. You go back 10 years on these forums and pay to win was universally considered a terrible game, period.



That's the most insidious part of all of this. You think you're in control, when you're not. You know how they say the best way to manipulate someone into doing something, is to make them think it's their idea? You get someone to do something that YOU want them to do, but does not necessarily benefit them, but you convince them they want to do it, and if you're REALLY good you can convince them it was their idea. The person being duped thinks they're in control the entire time they're being duped.

People saying "Well it's mobile so it's gonna be pay to win, duh," you guys have been duped. Mobile games exist where you can buy them and just play. They're rare now that eastern monetization has been normalized in the west, but they exist. So why do you guys just simply accept aggressive and predatory monetization as something that's "okay"? Because you've been conditioned, and that stance you used to have against pay to win has been slowly eroded away by years of normalization of the model.

You are not in control.

[SinR]

Heres an interesting question - Blizzard have done different payment models for different versions of the same game.....so question is, would you support DI being purchasable on PC - with cosmetic ONLY purchases in game, while leaving the mobile version as is. Would that change anything for anyone? To be clear, no, i dont think they actually would do that, but its just a question.

I'd support it a whole lot more than F2P with MTX reminders being shoved down my throat like its Prom Night

[Witchblade77]

Heres an interesting question - Blizzard have done different payment models for different versions of the same game.....so question is, would you support DI being purchasable on PC - with cosmetic ONLY purchases in game, while leaving the mobile version as is. Would that change anything for anyone? To be clear, no, i dont think they actually would do that, but its just a question.

I'd rather they changed both and yes I might actualy just buy the paid version especially if they continue to develop it and fix up a few things here and there so its a bit less of a D3 reskin

but that also reminds me of the game I used to play for a bit years ago (my avatar is actualy one of my characters from it)

Allods. it was a pc game but it was very. VERY pay to win. like... you would literally not be able to progress through pve, let alone pvp game after a certain point unless you bought stuff from cash shop but people didn't quite realize the extent of it until something interesting happened. the game had a lot of cool stuff going for it, so eventually company decided to create 2 different types of servers. the f2p one would stay as is, with MTX out the ass. and then there was a subscription server which would have no cash shop and you had to earn everything through gameplay only. except... they forgot to rebalance it initially and its at that point people realize the extent of how p2w that game was. because without those cash shop things, they could not progress. as far as I know it got rebalanced for subscription server at least, but... its just something I was reminded of after your suggestion.

P.S. speaking of issues on pc. there is this thing you get to do once a day if you are with shadows. assembly - where you share buffs. and that shit is so broken on pc. at first I thought I was doing something wrong, because I couldn't share buffs, I couldn't do much but hope someone shared with me and grab the rewards. but then I decided to try assembly on my phone, since there is no combat so shouldn't be too bad. it was like night and day. icons and sharing buffs... actualy WORKED. I didn't feel like a jerk who only takes and doesn't share anymore. and you'd think they would consider these things, but the port is so damn half asses for pc.... anything that was already in d3 works fine. anything new added for DI? (other then cash shop) is varying degrees of borked :/

[arkanon]

I'd support it a whole lot more than F2P with MTX reminders being shoved down my throat like its Prom Night

HAHA, yeah its a bit much tbf. I guess what im trying to discover is, is it ONLY the monetization that concerns people? I ask because to me, the game is fine for a mobile game, but if it was pc only, i wouldnt pay a lot for it, certainly not AAA full price. Why would I when i can just play D3 which is essentially a VERY similar game, in fact i have read that the 'rifts' are literally ripped straight from D3, but I havent looked into that.

I guess part 2 to the question is, what would you personally pay, in USD for consistency sake, for a power free shop version of DI on pc?

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I'd rather they changed both and yes I might actualy just buy the paid version especially if they continue to develop it and fix up a few things here and there so its a bit less of a D3 reskin

but that also reminds me of the game I used to play for a bit years ago (my avatar is actualy one of my characters from it)

Allods. it was a pc game but it was very. VERY pay to win. like... you would literally not be able to progress through pve, let alone pvp game after a certain point unless you bought stuff from cash shop but people didn't quite realize the extent of it until something interesting happened. the game had a lot of cool stuff going for it, so eventually company decided to create 2 different types of servers. the f2p one would stay as is, with MTX out the ass. and then there was a subscription server which would have no cash shop and you had to earn everything through gameplay only. except... they forgot to rebalance it initially and its at that point people realize the extent of how p2w that game was. because without those cash shop things, they could not progress. as far as I know it got rebalanced for subscription server at least, but... its just something I was reminded of after your suggestion.

P.S. speaking of issues on pc. there is this thing you get to do once a day if you are with shadows. assembly - where you share buffs. and that shit is so broken on pc. at first I thought I was doing something wrong, because I couldn't share buffs, I couldn't do much but hope someone shared with me and grab the rewards. but then I decided to try assembly on my phone, since there is no combat so shouldn't be too bad. it was like night and day. icons and sharing buffs... actualy WORKED. I didn't feel like a jerk who only takes and doesn't share anymore. and you'd think they would consider these things, but the port is so damn half asses for pc.... anything that was already in d3 works fine. anything new added for DI? (other then cash shop) is varying degrees of borked :/

Yeah TBH i seriously considered the sub model as an option, but it would need to be substantially lower than the wow sub, a joint sub of some kind, or in the future when microsoft take over, included in gamepass. Again, i dont see this EVER happening, it was purely for conversation.

[Cthulhu 2020]

HAHA, yeah its a bit much tbf. I guess what im trying to discover is, is it ONLY the monetization that concerns people? I ask because to me, the game is fine for a mobile game, but if it was pc only, i wouldnt pay a lot for it, certainly not AAA full price. Why would I when i can just play D3 which is essentially a VERY similar game, in fact i have read that the 'rifts' are literally ripped straight from D3, but I havent looked into that.

I guess part 2 to the question is, what would you personally pay, in USD for consistency sake, for a power free shop version of DI on pc?

If they got rid of most or all of the monetization, it probably would have been a halfway decent $30-$40 Diablo game, especially considering that development time for character progression might have actually gone into a cool new system, rather than just recycling D3 rifts and turning them into a paid gacha box.

[Witchblade77]

HAHA, yeah its a bit much tbf. I guess what im trying to discover is, is it ONLY the monetization that concerns people? I ask because to me, the game is fine for a mobile game, but if it was pc only, i wouldnt pay a lot for it, certainly not AAA full price. Why would I when i can just play D3 which is essentially a VERY similar game, in fact i have read that the 'rifts' are literally ripped straight from D3, but I havent looked into that.

I guess part 2 to the question is, what would you personally pay, in USD for consistency sake, for a power free shop version of DI on pc?

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Yeah TBH i seriously considered the sub model as an option, but it would need to be substantially lower than the wow sub, a joint sub of some kind, or in the future when microsoft take over, included in gamepass. Again, i dont see this EVER happening, it was purely for conversation.

I mean... there is already a sort of sub thingie in game right now. its just... not worth the money in its current state (boon of plenty). but... I agree in that I dont think they are going to rework it either. why, when people seem to be willing to frontload so much more.... >_>

[arkanon]

I mean... there is already a sort of sub thingie in game right now. its just... not worth the money in its current state (boon of plenty). but... I agree in that I dont think they are going to rework it either. why, when people seem to be willing to frontload so much more.... >_>

This is one of those issues where if you choose to devide it into two teams/sides - devs and players, BOTH are to blame. As usual, not ALL people on either team are to blame - the kid doing code for DI isnt the problem, and neither imo is the kid who bought the $0.99 pack at the beginning. But, if you choose to create a us Vs them situation, BOTH sides are to blame. Its basic supply and demand. They have only designed the game this way because they KNOW, without a doubt, many people will throw literally tens of thousands of dollars at the game.

Using a AAA $60 purchase price, 1 medium whale = TWO HUNDRED regular players. What im saying is, at $60 it would take 200 purchases to match what they have received from that one whale spending over $10k in DI. There are MANY whales on social media, forums, and youtube showing their spend and it is not as rare as i thought it would be to spend $10k - $15k. Yes, there are extreme examples up to and exceeding $100k, but i believe (and hope) they are the tiniest of minorities.

To be clear, im AGREEING with you, that they can make this much money in a month, why would they bother with a sub or box price? And THAT is the issue - the demand appears to be extremely high. I see no future where gamers' can unite and band together, refusing to pay, so the only option is regulation.

[Popastique]

As I said, give zero shits if you believe me. You're a random nobody on the internet. It's real and it's happening. Plenty of people believe political lies because they want to, because they're invested in that ideology. If you're in love with the game, nothing is going to convince you there's anything bad in it, lol.

Fortunately i do not play DI. But things looking good for DI so far. It got some audience, making profit, ranking up in mobile stores. Like you said : " It's real and it's happening *. From one nobody on the internet to another

[Cthulhu 2020]

Fortunately i do not play DI. But things looking good for DI so far. It got some audience, making profit, ranking up in mobile stores. Like you said : " It's real and it's happening *. From one nobody on the internet to another

Yes, a Blizzard game is doing well in its launch month. I'm sure this will continue for years to come and won't come crashing down within the next couple of months. And this surely won't permanently damage their reputation!

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Pretty comprehensive overview of D:I and all t he issues. Even gives it credit where credit is due. Trigger warning for those who think D:I isn't P2W.

[Popastique]

Yes, the game is doing well in its launch month. I'm sure this will continue for years to come and won't come crashing down within the next couple of months.

We'll just have to wait and see

[RobertoCarlos]

Someone made a simulation for buying gems. Have a crack!

How many thousands before you hit a 5 star?

Having the visual representation of this "game" anyone getting casino slot vibes?

https://dimi777.github.io/diablo-rift-simulator/

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Got my first 5 star at $7300 spent!

Bargin!

[Kyanion]

Got my first 5 star at $7300 spent!

Bargin!

Got mine after 300 bucks. Super Bargain!

[RobertoCarlos]

Got mine after 300 bucks. Super Bargain!

Shit only 300! Well with that kind of skill you'll be at the top in no time.

[Kyanion]

Shit only 300! Well with that kind of skill you'll be at the top in no time.

Yeah too bad it took over 10k to get my 2nd one.

[Skildar]

why do you need 5 star gems?

[Nymrohd]

why do you need 5 star gems?

You don't need it.

[Witchblade77]

why do you need 5 star gems?

to be competitive in pvp mostly. DI has this whole shadows vs immortals thing going and the thing is, you can only have 500 immortals per server, and shadow guilds that take down the immortal clan - become immortals themselves. why be immortal? extra goodies, etc. and you know... clout. personaly I'm staying the hell away. it does get in a way of even my pve activities at time and I'm pretty close to basically being done with the game in terms of what I can accomplish in it while still having fun... and that's basically the thing. the game has no longevity unless you start throwing money at it.


edited to add, speaking of casino slot vibes... those goddamn charms.... unless I'm misunderstanding something... getting one with a single buff for your class is doable.... more or less, still takes a ton of rng... but creating one with multiple buffs? I think I'm not even going to try anymore, cause I finally got a second charm with buff I wanted, extracted aforementioned buff (along with all the other buffs, because apparently that's how it works) tried to change one of the non class buffs to a second class one... except which buff you change to is ALSO a roulette and I essentially wasted a whole bunch of chars/mats. sigh...

[RobertoCarlos]

you dont "need" anything in video games.

You can just stare at your character and run around in loops.

For people who like to advance their character/progression however....

[Skildar]

to be competitive in pvp mostly. DI has this whole shadows vs immortals thing going and the thing is, you can only have 500 immortals per server, and shadow guilds that take down the immortal clan - become immortals themselves. why be immortal? extra goodies, etc. and you know... clout. personaly I'm staying the hell away. it does get in a way of even my pve activities at time and I'm pretty close to basically being done with the game in terms of what I can accomplish in it while still having fun... and that's basically the thing. the game has no longevity unless you start throwing money at it.

ok thank because I'm currently paragon 7 and I've yet to experience any challenge that requires crazy gear. I'm a shadow apprentice 1 (5% buff) and I've yet to try the different activities linked to this (I only did path of blood).
Gems could be a fun thing to have but for now I don't care for fear as I don't have any clear challenge to take on.

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edited to add, speaking of casino slot vibes... those goddamn charms.... unless I'm misunderstanding something... getting one with a single buff for your class is doable.... more or less, still takes a ton of rng... but creating one with multiple buffs? I think I'm not even going to try anymore, cause I finally got a second charm with buff I wanted, extracted aforementioned buff (along with all the other buffs, because apparently that's how it works) tried to change one of the non class buffs to a second class one... except which buff you change to is ALSO a roulette and I essentially wasted a whole bunch of chars/mats. sigh...

oh
I've got quite the collection of small useless charms in my bank/chest. I haven't taken the time to search for a way to make this useful. I'll look into this tomorrow I guess.

[Witchblade77]

ok thank because I'm currently paragon 7 and I've yet to experience any challenge that requires crazy gear. I'm a shadow apprentice 1 (5% buff) and I've yet to try the different activities linked to this (I only did path of blood).
Gems could be a fun thing to have but for now I don't care for fear as I don't have any clear challenge to take on.

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oh
I've got quite the collection of small useless charms in my bank/chest. I haven't taken the time to search for a way to make this useful. I'll look into this tomorrow I guess.

yeah, as long as you are almost entirely solo, rank 1 gems seem more then sufficient, at least they are for me. group content can get a bit more iffy, but it also depends on what is it that you are trying to do. I mostly raid the vault and did a dungeon/couple of world bosses and lassal. it was rough at times (especially the vault), but.. /shrug having tried pvp once to get that battleground task marked off my guide.... I was so... squishy, dear god.... not doing THAT again.

as for charms, I'm wondering if I should even bother looking up whether i'm doing something wrong. what I did was deconstruct all the ones not for my class, and then used the mats to upgrade the one charm I got for my class to max rank 5. which left me with a charm that had one useful buff and 4 useless ones (not for my class) I tried to see if I could change those buffs, it told me I need a skill stone. looked at the tab called extract (figured its going to work similarly to legendaries, right? right? >_> ) said I needed rank 5 charm to create skill stone. fine. I upgraded my second charm, created a skillstone out of it... and then imbue tab ate it and changed my necro buff to barbarian buff rather then DH buff I actualy wanted. SIIIGH. AWESOME system. wonderful. at least the buffs seem to be marginal, so fuck it.

P.S. I highly recommend doing daily shadow assembly if you have a chance/once you can. there is no combat, it takes relatively little time and you get like 12 aspirant keys for it. raiding the vault as long as you are successful and get through all 4 floors, awards a bunch of hilts and shitton of gold.