Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Huehuecoyotl]

You are going off topic, but yes Trump was the best president the US ever had. He truly understood freedom and that limitations and regulations on companies is a bad thing.

This is a bit relevant tho to the topic. If most people here could rule the world, you would forbid not just P2W but all of MTX and you would punish companies like Blizzard who have clever businenss ideas (that you call unethical).

That’s north korea thinking. The beauty of the western world most of us live in is freedom, the freedom to make any company, the freedom to make money any way you can! Blizzard are living the American dream, which is really the western dream as it also applies to many of us in Europe, that should be admired, not looked down on...

You'd probably use these three paragraphs on a dating site, to let people understand who you are and what you stand for. I suspect you've read this back and you might even have felt a sense of pride at how well you got across the type of person that you are. And you did, in a succinct and precise way, you've allowed anyone reading this to got a strong idea of what kind of person you are.

We have differing ideas on how good an idea it would be to share these thoughts, however.

It does explain very well why you are perfectly happy with what Blizzard have done with this game. And no amount of discussion or debate will ever change that.

[Aliven]

That's his level of intelligence. Can't help it.

130 IQ, remember.

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Luckely this game is making a lot of money and is nowhere close to dying, already therr are less haters cause most luckely gave up.

Thats because you are idiot. And people are less likely to talk to an idiot. Because this is pointless. Like yours... everything i guess.

[Kyanion]

Interesting how brainwashed some people are


yes Trump was the best president the US ever had.
punish companies like Blizzard who have clever businenss ideas (that you call unethical).

That’s north korea thinking. the freedom to make money any way you can! Blizzard are living the American dream, which is really the western dream as it also applies to many of us in Europe, that should be admired, not looked down on...

What is the current trend? Something like "Tell me how you belong on ignore without actually telling me you belong on ignore." Yeah. I think that works.

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I don't think I will ever stop being amused in a very morbid way at a COMEDY CARTOON being used as counterpoint to actual scientific data.

I mean sometimes South Park does make a good talking point about something but yeah to think they are providing scientific data or facts and use it as a reference for 'just stop doing X thing. My grandpa did it, he's a real man' is fucking crazy.

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It does explain very well why you are perfectly happy with what Blizzard have done with this game. And no amount of discussion or debate will ever change that.

Yup, safest bet at this point is just toss them on ignore and stop giving them a platform to spout off stupid shit. But then again there is way too much comedy gold being spewed so I kind of enjoy watching and participating in this one.

[Ghost of Cow]

Really, this discussion again? Watch the South Park episode ”Bloody Mary” they give an easy to understand answer to why addiction is not a disease.

You can quit your addiction any time, if you can’t you are weak, is weakness a disease to you as well?

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I’m quite old, my patience with people have run out long ago. We see stupid people ruin the world and now the game industry.

In 2022 it’s trendy to be offended, it’s trendy to be a victim. The phrase ”man up” has lost it’s importance. The world is sickening right now.

And now these offended people wanna ruin great games like Immortal just because they lack discipline IRL to handle it.

Letting weak and stupid be in charge is dangerous, look at Joe Biden, he’s the most pathetic weak world leader of all time, his weakness alone caused the war in Ukraine. We should not reward weakness, it sounds cold but it’s needed.

You guys wanna help the addicts and punish the big companies like Blizzard, that’s messed up. Blizzard deliver joy to millions and you rather take that away just to help weakling addicts who cry they have a ”disease” rather than take responsibility for their own lives.

Pisses me off beyond what I can describe with words.

I still don't have an issue with D:I, but brother you got some issues to work through.

[Battlebeard]

What is the current trend? Something like "Tell me how you belong on ignore without actually telling me you belong on ignore." Yeah. I think that works.

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I mean sometimes South Park does make a good talking point about something but yeah to think they are providing scientific data or facts and use it as a reference for 'just stop doing X thing. My grandpa did it, he's a real man' is fucking crazy.

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Yup, safest bet at this point is just toss them on ignore and stop giving them a platform to spout off stupid shit. But then again there is way too much comedy gold being spewed so I kind of enjoy watching and participating in this one.

Comedy gold, just because someone doesn't have a mainstream opinion... the world has truly become a strange place. And the gaming community has changed so much, I actually get nearly depressed seeing this. You can cheat in games, you can be toxic in games, you can grief in games, you can scam in games, all that is really forgotten and forgiven but no matter what one does, no crime match the crime of liking Diablo Immortal or defending Blizzard.

The trend is that everyone feels as a victim, everyone has this "buhu poor me". Things IRL like MeToo and BLM really show what world we have. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT a sexist or a racist, far from, as I am from an immigrant family and have 3 sisters etc, do not get me wrong here, I dispise racism and sexism, I really do, but those movements are done the wrong way, they just come off as whiny and "oh no poor me" rather than powerful. Racism and Sexism are problems, but handle it the right way, not the whiny way. If you are a victim of sexism or racism, get the police involved, or take action yourself, just don't go cry in the media, that's pathetic.

And now we see this sort of weakness in the video game industry as well. Most people don't seem to see the problem that I do. Look, I am not an r-tard, I get what this game is, it is sorta predatory, even though I wouldn't use that word.

But the solution is not to punish the company for doing a predatory MTX scheme, nor is it to regulate the market. If you do that, you let stupid and weak people off the hook, and they have not gotten smarter or gained any discipline.

If people ruin themselves on this game, THEY have to change their lives, they have to get help, get educated, do something, gain some discipline. If we say "aw poor little addict, lets punish the mean bully company that was mean to you", you are caving in to their addiction and they learn no discipline from it. You let them get away with their addictions.

If you want your kid to learn how to swim, tough love is the key, throw him into the deep end of the pool and let things play out (obviously save him if he is close to drowning) but this is a far more efficient way than starting slow in shallow waters. That's how you learn to swim.

And if you want to learn some discipline and learn to take responsibility with your life, then you might have to lose everything and start from scratch. The best way an addict can get over his addiction is to first let it consume him. If he survives it, he will become stronger. That's the only way we can handle any form of addiction.

Said it before, people who ruin their lives on Immortal is part of natural selection. Either they become homeless and maybe drugusers and die, OR they learn from it, shape up, and build themselves up, stronger than before. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger is an expression lost in todays times.

I am cold hearted, I am not a nice guy, but I am a guy who wants a better world, believe it or not. I believe in freedom, I believe in the western world. I don't care what happens to most humans, but I do care about humanity, and tough love and "what doesnt kill you makes you stronger" may be harmful to many, many humans, BUT it's good for humanity.

[zabunda]

Interesting how brainwashed some people are by media and streamers, so much that you call us capitalists who defend companies psychos...

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You are going off topic, but yes Trump was the best president the US ever had. He truly understood freedom and that limitations and regulations on companies is a bad thing.

Wait, are you really so dumb to believe this? Wow. All onn/newsmax has to do is feed you shit sprinkled poop flakes and you’d call it the best thing since sliced bread. Go do some research yourself. Biden has been a rather ineffective president, but weakest? Absolutely not. And trump was among the worst presidents objectively speaking. Primarily due to his lack of respect of the constitution and lack of morality.
But you keep drinking that poop flavored coolaid with a shit stained mustache and smile and call it the best drink ever!

[Battlebeard]

Wait, are you really so dumb to believe this? Wow. All onn/newsmax has to do is feed you shit sprinkled poop flakes and you’d call it the best thing since sliced bread. Go do some research yourself. Biden has been a rather ineffective president, but weakest? Absolutely not. And trump was among the worst presidents objectively speaking. Primarily due to his lack of respect of the constitution and lack of morality.
But you keep drinking that poop flavored coolaid with a shit stained mustache and smile and call it the best drink ever!

A presidents job is to make his/hers citizens feel safe, and to give his/hers country a good economy. Who cares about morality for a president, that's not relevant to him/her. I don't want a nice president, I want a president who make my country better, who make my life better. Trump was hard as stone, Putin never dared mess with the US or any country in Europe when he was in charge. He was a mean bastard, but he fixed the economy, the US was financially great with him in charge.

But I do understand how people like you reason, you are not alone, there are millions of people like you, you have other values and I get you defend them.

The CORE question of Diablo Immortal really comes down to Company vs Players, what is more important? Is the P2W good for the companies, yes, is it good for the players, no. But what's more important?

A bunch of gamers who are all, lets face it, pretty privilieged since we can afford this hobby, just playing stuff for fun.

Or companies, who keep billions of people over the world employed, who create jobs and opportunities as well as generate a lot of tax-money that helps the countries. Who also deliver products which often have good quality that most of us enjoys.

I believe it's more important that companies have freedom to do more things, and to have whatever monetization thing they want, rather than regulating them. Do you truly believe it's good to start punishing companies for lack of ethics? What do you think will be the results? Nothing positive I can think of. Yeah, we might get better games, but big deal, we gonna have less games, and many, many people are gonna lose their jobs etc. It's not worth it.

And I get it, I am the bad guy here, cause I defend companies, while most people here only side with other players. I am a gamer too, but I realize there are more important things in life than video games, like global economics and freedom.

[RobertoCarlos]

When you have a shitty take and you're a shitty person so now the threads devolved into scarface.

"im the bad guy! Everybody look at the bad guy. You need guys like me so you can point and say that's the bad guy"

[kranur]

Said it before, people who ruin their lives on Immortal is part of natural selection. Either they become homeless and maybe drugusers and die, OR they learn from it, shape up, and build themselves up, stronger than before. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger is an expression lost in todays times.
.

Imagine this coming from someone who a few weeks ago was crying on the forums that one of the easiest raids ever will be buffed a little at launch.
What a pathetic bullshitter you are. I think you're nothing short of fucking a retard IRL.

[Witchblade77]

What is the current trend? Something like "Tell me how you belong on ignore without actually telling me you belong on ignore." Yeah. I think that works.

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I mean sometimes South Park does make a good talking point about something but yeah to think they are providing scientific data or facts and use it as a reference for 'just stop doing X thing. My grandpa did it, he's a real man' is fucking crazy.

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Yup, safest bet at this point is just toss them on ignore and stop giving them a platform to spout off stupid shit. But then again there is way too much comedy gold being spewed so I kind of enjoy watching and participating in this one.

fiction in general often times is a good way to ponder on variety of issues, but there is a difference between thought exercise and actual data and it seems like this dude doesn't understand the difference. who btw I've had on ignore for weeks now btw, its just you still see quoted replies on this forum and it does become comedy gold in a black mirror sort of way.

[Ghost of Cow]

Imagine this coming from someone who a few weeks ago was crying on the forums that one of the easiest raids ever will be buffed a little at launch.
What a pathetic bullshitter you are. I think you're nothing short of fucking a retard IRL.

Same guy that said it would be "pure pain and hell" to have too many mounts to collect.

Better "man up" I guess.

[Blackcoffin]

...snip

I am cold hearted, I am not a nice guy, but I am a guy who wants a better world, believe it or not. I believe in freedom, I believe in the western world. I don't care what happens to most humans, but I do care about humanity, and tough love and "what doesnt kill you makes you stronger" may be harmful to many, many humans, BUT it's good for humanity.

You're not coldhearted. You're ignorant and deluded. In the world of the free, we're allowed to have an opinion. In the case of Diablo Immortal, there seems to be a trend suggesting the monetization model is exploitative and predatory. Yet, you're here complaining about people advocating their cause. Your argument is personal responsability supersedes that of any negative design model. For this argument to make sense, you have to disregard psychology, physiology and even interaction design (I'm sure more sciences apply), which is simply laughable.

[Battlebeard]

You're not coldhearted. You're ignorant and deluded. In the world of the free, we're allowed to have an opinion. In the case of Diablo Immortal, there seems to be a trend suggesting the monetization model is exploitative and predatory. Yet, you're here complaining about people advocating their cause. Your argument is personal responsability supersedes that of any negative design model. For this argument to make sense, you have to disregard psychology, physiology and even interaction design (I'm sure more sciences apply), which is simply laughable.

The biggest problem I have is not that people hate the P2W system, but that they cannot ignore it and see the amazing game behind it. Immortal is absolutely one of my favorite games of all time, it's freaking amazing, and people hate on it.

I got 0,3% user score on meta critic, when that score should be 90%+, it really makes me upset.

[Bramickias]

The biggest problem I have is not that people hate the P2W system, but that they cannot ignore it and see the amazing game behind it. Immortal is absolutely one of my favorite games of all time, it's freaking amazing, and people hate on it.

I got 0,3% user score on meta critic, when that score should be 90%+, it really makes me upset.

Youre delusionnal. D:I is a watered down Diablo 3 copy at its base. It's a mediocre game without the MTX bullshit, with them it's an insult to gaming. And just as i predicted, everyone i know has dropped it after 2-3 weeks. They all complained that it just gets hella boring after you've put 20-30hours in. Even as F2P players, free is a price too high to pay for playing a bad game. It hard to believe the same company who released a trendsetter like Hearthstone also released a turd like Diablo Immortal.

[Battlebeard]

Youre delusionnal. D:I is a watered down Diablo 3 copy at its base. It's a mediocre game without the MTX bullshit, with them it's an insult to gaming. And just as i predicted, everyone i know has dropped it after 2-3 weeks. They all complained that it just gets hella boring after you've put 20-30hours in. Even as F2P players, free is a price too high to pay for playing a bad game. It hard to believe the same company who released a trendsetter like Hearthstone also released a turd like Diablo Immortal.

I think Immortal is an improved version of D3, by far the best Diablo game ever made. My clan is still extremely active, with only people over paragon 100 and hundreds of hours played.

If you think it's bad you haven't played it enough.

[VinceVega]

A presidents job is to make his/hers citizens feel safe, and to give his/hers country a good economy. Who cares about morality for a president, that's not relevant to him/her. I don't want a nice president, I want a president who make my country better, who make my life better. Trump was hard as stone, Putin never dared mess with the US or any country in Europe when he was in charge. He was a mean bastard, but he fixed the economy, the US was financially great with him in charge.

But I do understand how people like you reason, you are not alone, there are millions of people like you, you have other values and I get you defend them.

The CORE question of Diablo Immortal really comes down to Company vs Players, what is more important? Is the P2W good for the companies, yes, is it good for the players, no. But what's more important?

A bunch of gamers who are all, lets face it, pretty privilieged since we can afford this hobby, just playing stuff for fun.

Or companies, who keep billions of people over the world employed, who create jobs and opportunities as well as generate a lot of tax-money that helps the countries. Who also deliver products which often have good quality that most of us enjoys.

I believe it's more important that companies have freedom to do more things, and to have whatever monetization thing they want, rather than regulating them. Do you truly believe it's good to start punishing companies for lack of ethics? What do you think will be the results? Nothing positive I can think of. Yeah, we might get better games, but big deal, we gonna have less games, and many, many people are gonna lose their jobs etc. It's not worth it.

And I get it, I am the bad guy here, cause I defend companies, while most people here only side with other players. I am a gamer too, but I realize there are more important things in life than video games, like global economics and freedom.

You should play cyberpunk. It shows quite good what would happen if you give corporations too much leeway.

[Jtbrig7390]

I got 0,3% user score on meta critic, when that score should be 90%+, it really makes me upset.

You shouldn't be upset that a game gets any kind of score unless you are a shareholder. The game could be the next coming of Jesus but because it has a shit monetization system that will weight it down. A rotten apple spoils the bunch and even if everything else was perfect the monetization is still part of the game and it will be judged on it.

If you like the game fine go play it and stop trying to defend it cause others (and it seems a vast majority's) opinion on it is different than yours.

[Witchblade77]

this game honestly has two things going for it. combat is fun, but it also happens to be essentially D3 combat slightly sped up or so it feels like at the moment. and its a new story in a diablo world, even though its relatively short and side stories are mostly repetitive. but once you finish the story, what is there left? and yes you can say there isn't much left in D3 either, but at least if I'm into the whole collecting loot thing - D3 actualy drops it. and if I want to try harder difficulties, I'm not forced to group for them I can even craft a lot of the gear, including sets - something DI doesn't have.

pvp you say? well... if not for that whole p2w system, you have highly limited times when you can even participate in pvp at all and if you cannot play during those times, you are fucked, and then there IS a p2w system on top of that.

the game is fun for a bit and then you realize just how shallow and tedious it gets and... /shrug. monetization in DI is awful. but... its not even close to an amazing game even if you take it out of equation

[Itisamuh]

Wait, are you really so dumb to believe this? Wow. All onn/newsmax has to do is feed you shit sprinkled poop flakes and you’d call it the best thing since sliced bread. Go do some research yourself. Biden has been a rather ineffective president, but weakest? Absolutely not. And trump was among the worst presidents objectively speaking. Primarily due to his lack of respect of the constitution and lack of morality.
But you keep drinking that poop flavored coolaid with a shit stained mustache and smile and call it the best drink ever!

Another person who has no idea what "objectively" means. There seems to be a lot of those on this forum. Trump was a thousand times better than Biden or Obama.

However, on the actual topic, I have to agree with the majority here. Regardless of how fun it may be, the greedy pay to win model is impossible to ignore.

[Veggie50]

No, it's objective by the data. Bad systems don't survive. Therefore the current systems are creme de la creme. Your opinion of them is subjective though. As is mine.

This only works if you define “good” to mean “profittable”.