Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Delekii]

You sound very spoiled and entitled. Who pays your salary? Who pays your parents salary? Who keeps people employed so they can pay tax and make society work? It's the companies! The world would fall appart completely if you start punishing companies. If you take away their incentive to make money, they will all shrink or disband and people lose their jobs.

You're an absurd simpleton. You claim other people make hysterical, emotional arguments, but you think that the world would fall apart if mega-rich companies and their mega-rich owners made slightly less money. The Koch brothers thank you for your service.

Climate change will be bad but not for at least 50+ years, we can’t panic now, panic will ruin peoples lives.

We can't panic later; we'll be dead. Again; you're a simpleton, or you're willingly listening to people with vested interests in doing nothing who are making money from the status quo. Every shred of scientific evidence says we are moving too slowly. You can't just click your fingers and fix climate tomorrow.

Same with this game, we cannot panic and shut down business ideas, the mtx market needs to be properly reviewed by governments and socioeconomical professors and experts, go give a proper logic based solution and that can take many years.

We don’t yet know the longtern effect of lets say Immortal. Short time it might ruin some people who lack discipline, but long time this can lead to many positives, like employment, large tax income from increased revenue etc, Diablo Immortal can end up helping far more people than it ruin, we need to wait and see!

No, we don't. Again; every shred of evidence says that what you are saying is demonstrably ludicrous. Just stop. You're wrong, and everything you say is stupid.

[Rendark]

The world would fall appart completely if you start punishing companies. If you take away their incentive to make money, they will all shrink or disband and people lose their jobs.

The world is already on fire because of we don't punish companies.

Making money is fine but most companies don't want to just make money, they want all the money.

[Delever]

You sound very spoiled and entitled. Who pays your salary? Who pays your parents salary? Who keeps people employed so they can pay tax and make society work? It's the companies! The world would fall appart completely if you start punishing companies. If you take away their incentive to make money, they will all shrink or disband and people lose their jobs.

I actually cannot believe this is being said unironically HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH MAN FUCK ME SIDEWAYS.

I literally stopped responding before because when I told him the world is facing a crisis under the current system he literally responded with "what crisis?" to which I thought he was trolling but at this point I see I have the honor of talking with a single celled organism who literally thinks climate change is not an issue and we have 50+ years to solve it.

This is the same person that literally said dumb people should suffer. Holy fuck how is it possible to contain so much irony in a single thread.

[RobertoCarlos]

The giga whales are discovering a problem with queuing up for battlegrounds to feast on all the plankton aka free to play players. People that have spent so much money thier power level puts them too high up there is no one else to que with. So a clan is gonna hand over immortal title because they can't que for the battleground part of the challenge. Lol.

[Jerot]

Climate change will be bad but not for at least 50+ years, we can’t panic now, panic will ruin peoples lives.

https://www.politico.eu/article/exce...ve-hit-europe/
https://www.newscientist.com/article...and-and-wales/
https://www.vox.com/22287295/texas-u...-vortex-arctic

Seems to be having some fairly catastrophic effects now, while its no need to panic, the wait and see approach isn't appropriate when the data clearly points to what will happen. We can make changes about it now, by then it will be too late. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Same with this game, we cannot panic and shut down business ideas, the mtx market needs to be properly reviewed by governments and socioeconomical professors and experts, go give a proper logic based solution and that can take many years.

We don’t yet know the longtern effect of lets say Immortal. Short time it might ruin some people who lack discipline, but long time this can lead to many positives, like employment, large tax income from increased revenue etc, Diablo Immortal can end up helping far more people than it ruin, we need to wait and see!

There is no panic, we've seen a similar trend from smaller mobile developers for years. This is an advancement of the trend, companies that were once respected like Konami, Ubisoft, and now Blizzard following in their footsteps. Putting short-term gains ahead of customer satisfaction and long term product viability. They are cashing in their reputations with it.

What is there to see, there is nothing revolutionary here, it's overcharging for things players should not be charged for given the genre of the game. It's using psychology against the consumer, not to deliver the best experience but to extract the most money.

Anyone that thinks you can get $100k worth of value out of this game is crazy in my eyes. One guy that did ended up bricking the game for himself, making it impossible to queue for PvP, which meant the immortals on his server couldn't compete when the time came because he could never finish his initiation and he couldn't pass leadership to anyone else due to the bug. After dropping an entire mortgage on the game, blizzard couldn't be bothered to respond despite his best efforts over a month of raising awareness and using his influence as a content creator to bring additional attention to the threads/tweets. It wasn't until the news media took the story and ran with it that blizzard cared because it was hurting the games image.

In the end, all it really got him is the same thing you could earn in any other game in the genre totally for free, or at least after buying the game if necessary.

I spent a fraction of a fraction of what he did on another ARPG, Path of Exile, and you know what it got me?

I got to spend time with the devs IRL, had a private dinner at a Brazilian steakhouse with them and many VIP guests and content creators from the community, including meeting David Brevik the creator of Diablo himself. They even signed some cards for me as a souvenir.

I got to design an item that is permanently in the game, with help from the artists and developers to create and balance it.

A closet half full of branded T-shirts, hoodies, jackets. A binder full of artist signed concept art, developer signed merchandise. More unique in-game cosmetics than I could possibly use in a years worth of seasons, all of which are no longer available even if someone did want them.

It also got me a VIP ticket to their own convention called ExileCon which was actually about the fans and meeting the developers one-on-one, getting excited about the game and bonding over our enjoyment over it. Unlike the advertisement hell that was Blizzcon, where there was next to zero socializing and no chance to actually talk to devs outside of Q&A panels.

And none of it ruined the balance of the game for other players. At no point was I strong armed into giving them money, everything about the gameplay itself is totally free. Myself as a player, my time, and my money were all treated with respect. I wasn't smashed in PvP by someone I had no chance against because they dropped more money, I didn't run into timers or limitations that could only be paid to get around, I wasn't tempted to gamble on a lose-lose outcome, nothing about those strategies is good for gaming industry because it puts us in the sights for legislation/laws to be passed that could have detrimental effects because they don't understand the space like we do.

[Popastique]

Anyone that thinks you can get $100k worth of value out of this game is crazy in my eyes. One guy that did ended up bricking the game for himself, making it impossible to queue for PvP, which meant the immortals on his server couldn't compete when the time came because he could never finish his initiation and he couldn't pass leadership to anyone else due to the bug. After dropping an entire mortgage on the game, blizzard couldn't be bothered to respond despite his best efforts over a month of raising awareness and using his influence as a content creator to bring additional attention to the threads/tweets. It wasn't until the news media took the story and ran with it that blizzard cared because it was hurting the games image.

In the end, all it really got him is the same thing you could earn in any other game in the genre totally for free, or at least after buying the game if necessary.

I spent a fraction of a fraction of what he did on another ARPG, Path of Exile, and you know what it got me?

I got to spend time with the devs IRL, had a private dinner at a Brazilian steakhouse with them and many VIP guests and content creators from the community, including meeting David Brevik the creator of Diablo himself. They even signed some cards for me as a souvenir.

I got to design an item that is permanently in the game, with help from the artists and developers to create and balance it.

A closet half full of branded T-shirts, hoodies, jackets. A binder full of artist signed concept art, developer signed merchandise. More unique in-game cosmetics than I could possibly use in a years worth of seasons, all of which are no longer available even if someone did want them.

It also got me a VIP ticket to their own convention called ExileCon which was actually about the fans and meeting the developers one-on-one, getting excited about the game and bonding over our enjoyment over it. Unlike the advertisement hell that was Blizzcon, where there was next to zero socializing and no chance to actually talk to devs outside of Q&A panels.

And none of it ruined the balance of the game for other players. At no point was I strong armed into giving them money, everything about the gameplay itself is totally free. Myself as a player, my time, and my money were all treated with respect. I wasn't smashed in PvP by someone I had no chance against because they dropped more money, I didn't run into timers or limitations that could only be paid to get around, I wasn't tempted to gamble on a lose-lose outcome, nothing about those strategies is good for gaming industry because it puts us in the sights for legislation/laws to be passed that could have detrimental effects because they don't understand the space like we do.

And yet people spend money on mobile games to dominate in PVP or PVE environment, sometimes even when you have no endgame and no competetive modes. You may view them as crazy but as long as they do that - such games will continue to exist, and mobile market is full of them. There are no indicators of it changing anytime soon.

P.S. I am glad you enjoyed those perks of helping POE developers, though not everyone is interested in such IRL experience.

[LeGin v3]

The sad thing is that, after the disappointments of D3 and D:I, I probably won't even bother installing D4.

[Cryonic]

[Cthulhu 2020]

Since when was profit a terrible thing? Businesses grow and provide more using profits.
Are people here so uneducated that they need someone to tell them that?

People acting like a company can't make money if they just make a good game. God it's so fucking hilarious that people continue to defend gross amounts of monetization and mobile cash grabs under the banner of "WELL THE COMPANY NEEDS TO MAKE MONEY GUIZ"

Sure, I guess if Blizzard has lost enough of their loyal audience that they have to make up for it with greedy cash grabs, great for them. But it's also hilarious that people think this money goes towards making more/better games. They're gonna keep making games as they always have, albeit with none of the old Blizzard magic, and most of your money is going into stock value and investor dividends.


Anyone remember when video game companies just made good games and people bought them and that was all?

OH RIGHT.

That still exists. Game companies can make money off of just making good games still. But I guess when Bobby wants his 14th yacht, you say "yes master" and add another quick cash grab to your studio's repertoire. Not everyone can be From Software I suppose.

[Elim Garak]

Having a good game is not enough to make money in GameDev. You need marketing to sell it to the market, so that your diamond is seen among the rough. And then you have to recoup the marketing spend somehow for which the box price won't do.

[Snufflupagus]

Having a good game is not enough to make money in GameDev. You need marketing to sell it to the market, so that your diamond is seen among the rough. And then you have to recoup the marketing spend somehow for which the box price won't do.

We’re talking about a Diablo game, man. Franchises are their own marketing. That’s the whole point. All Blizzard needs to do is release something with “Diablo” on it and it’s marketed. It’s not going to get lost in the rough.

But given your signature I don’t expect you to comprehend that.

[Elim Garak]

We’re talking about a Diablo game, man. Franchises are their own marketing. That’s the whole point. All Blizzard needs to do is release something with “Diablo” on it and it’s marketed. It’s not going to get lost in the rough.

Only old farts know what a diablo is. TikToker's don't. Look at old farts complaining about Diablo Immortal - a game made for tiktokers.

But given your signature I don’t expect you to comprehend that.

And that's a projection.

[Snufflupagus]

And that's a projection.

A hypothesis, I think you’ll find.

[Elim Garak]

A hypothesis, I think you’ll find.

Imagine a Venn diagram with three circles, one inside the other inside another. The inner circle says "hypothesis", the middle circle says "projection", and the outer circle says "Alanis Morrissette's song about anecdotes that do not fit into the song's title exactly"

[Snufflupagus]

Imagine a Venn diagram with three circles, one inside the other inside another. The inner circle says "hypothesis", the middle circle says "projection", and the outer circle says "Alanis Morrissette's song about anecdotes that do not fit into the song's title exactly"

That would be called concentric circles, as opposed to a venn diagram.

But given the dribbling idiocy apparent in your signature and last two posts, I don't expect you to comprehend that either.

[Elim Garak]

That would be called concentric circles, as opposed to a venn diagram.

Seems like you are stuck in the projection loop. And the point goes straight thru its center.

[Beefhammer]

Wait . Are you saying we are being unempathetic toward you? Allow me to pull out my tiny violin so I can play for you.

- - - Updated - - -

Empathy doesn't require abject rejection of your own needs in order to employ. It just means consideration of the effect on others. It is absolutely possible to be empathetic toward others and run a successful business. It just requires the rejection of profit at all costs and above all considerations.


This is like when climate change denialist want to debate, or demand equal representation. Nobody wants to debate facts. People call you a sociopath because the positions you argue are sociopathic.


That's because it is entirely personal. The debate on DI ran it's course by page 10, nothing new has been added to the discussion. All it is now is cyclic rehashing of the same bad arguments. You might believe you've made rational coherent arguments, but you haven't. Like I said probably 80 pages ago, you're that guy that everyone on your side cringes at, wishing you weren't.

Who the fuck let him back in?

[RobertoCarlos]

Having a good game is not enough to make money in GameDev. You need marketing to sell it to the market, so that your diamond is seen among the rough. And then you have to recoup the marketing spend somehow for which the box price won't do.

games get massive amounts of free marketing when its good with word of mouth (friends talking about good games) and streamers.

[Flaks]

Having a good game is not enough to make money in GameDev. You need marketing to sell it to the market, so that your diamond is seen among the rough. And then you have to recoup the marketing spend somehow for which the box price won't do.

Genshin Impact is literally the exact opposite of your insane proposal in the modern day. The early 2000s with the advent of Halo, the explosion of Warcraft also stand as a testament to "great games make great money". Neither of these games started off advertising like crazy in any way shape or form.

These are all games that made money and "became big" by being exceptionally good games in their own rights. The advertising came later.

[Elim Garak]

Genshin Impact is literally the exact opposite of your insane proposal in the modern day. The early 2000s with the advent of Halo, the explosion of Warcraft also stand as a testament to "great games make great money". Neither of these games started off advertising like crazy in any way shape or form.

These are all games that made money and "became big" by being exceptionally good games in their own rights. The advertising came later.

"The game had a development and marketing budget of around $100 million, making it one of the most expensive video games to develop."