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  1. #61
    The only requirement is that the class must thematically make sense. Blizz has outwardly stated this.

    Every other point is coincidental or mostly untrue.

    1. Major Lore Figure: this is the same as expansion theme, and is coincidental and incorrect in a way. Evokers don't technically have a major lore figure, unless they introduce one. There is no evoker class, they were created to fill a role and then sealed away. LK had deathknights, Panda had monks, Legion had demon hunters, the lore figure for each expansion is coincidentally attached to the class.

    2. Playable version in MOBA/RTS: weak argument, wow classes are pretty far removed from their RTS and MOBA counterparts, just because it's a different game with different mechanics. Evokers break this as well, there are dragon themed heros in hots but they are just being themselves and using dragon abilities. At this point mostly everything created will just be reskinned abilities from other classes.

    3. Landmass: this is just expansion theme again.

    4. Abilities that don't fit other classes: this one is the least thought out, if anything Evokers are the first class that has been made specifically stating they can do things other herosmakes. But that isnt going to stip them from feeling like repeats. DKs are magic warriors and take their abilities largely from that concept, with the exception of a few abilities, a lot of their kit could be in other classes kits. Monks: ditto as DK, there are a few very specific themed things like their alcoholism, otherwise their kits could work elsewhere. DHs are literally rogue-demonology spec, with traps from SV hunter. Evokers are going to mostly come off as mouth breathing mages.

  2. #62
    There is nothing set in stone. We just know they are really slow at changing their ways.

    So, we can assume that the mantra that it must fit the theme of the expansion somehow stays true.

    I am actually disappointed no one asked them about Tinkers on the interviews given it's such a hotly debated topic. I would like to know what they are thinking these days.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    3. A landmass that thematically connects to the new class. DKs had Northrend, Monks had Pandaria, Demon Hunters had Broken Isles, Evokers have Dragon Isles. The next class will likely also have a landmass that matches its theme.
    You are only correct for Monks. Demon Hunters would be Shadowmoon Valley on Outland because they actually based and start out at The Black Temple back during The Burning Crusade. Keep in mind when you start a Demon Hunter as a Night Elf or High Elf, your character is actually back in TBC's timeline as the assault on the Black Temple happens right after you head to Marduum and you arrive back from the mission there just as Illidan has fallen. The only "connection" to the Broken Isles was the fact the prison that the Wardens held you in was located there. Could have easily been the Barrow Dens in Hyjal where Illidan was originally imprisoned before Tyrande released him during the Third War.

    Death Knights would be more Eastern Kingdoms as well. The Frozen Throne and the center of Scourge power was Northrend, but we have no real history of Acherus being in Northrend prior to the Knights of the Ebon Blade broke free from Arthas' control. Granted there are now two different versions of the DK starting chain now since the races available through Cataclysm still use the original one with Arthas and races added since then now have one with Bolvar and have you set as a hero who died during the Fourth War.

    Also, every new expansion is going to have new zones so this is also really more of a coincidence than a "requirement" or "formula".

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    We’re 4/4 so far.
    no we are not, as it was pointed out already demon hunters have tenuous ties to broken isles, most of which (if not all) didnt exist before legion itself in lore...
    they have ties to legion, which have ties to broken isles, sure, but also to milion other places, like blasted lands, hyjal, karazhan, hell even northrend, isnt dragonblight where Aegwyn fought against avatar of sargeras? and thats just azeroth...

    tbh demon hunters are MUCH MUCH more tied to outland than to broken isles... saying they are tied to broken isles is HUGE stretch
    Last edited by Lolites; 2022-06-04 at 01:30 PM.

  5. #65
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    He also appeared in the CCG, in the TTRPG, in WC comics, and other merchandise. Pandaren were the most requested new race for quite some time, and that's mainly due to the popularity of the character. A class/expansion largely based on his character was inevitable.
    It doesn't matter. The average WoW player does not consume non-WoW products like the TCG and the TTRPG. None of that changes the fact that Chen was an obscure character in WoW, too.

    Isn't this just semantics? If both the DH and the BI are thematically connected to the expansion's story, wouldn't that also make the DH and BI thematically connected to each other as well?
    No. It's not "just semantics". Because your point implies that we got Demon Hunters "because we had Broken Isles" which is a false statement to make. We didn't need the Broken Isles for the inclusion of demon hunters. The Legion could have invaded through the Dark Portal again. Or created a whole new portal elsewhere.

    Like I said: "A and B are connected to C, but A and B are not directly connected to each other." Here's a visual aid for you:


    I'm talking about abilities as a whole. No class in WoW at the time could take on the DK's Necromancer-based kit. Warlocks and Rogues couldn't properly house the melee-based demonic powers of the Demon Hunter. There was no existing class that could emulate the abilities of a dragon.
    Warlocks could easily take the kit, considering they already had necromantic abilities such as draining one's soul. Like-wise, the warlock could have housed the melee abilities of the demon hunter. After all, if Blizzard could make the hunter's survival spec into melee, who's to say that the next natural step in the evolution of the warlock's demonology spec was to become a melee spec, if the metamorphosis ability wasn't removed from it?

    But more to the point: you do not know what the "formula" for creating new classes is, and each and every attempt to come up with the "formula" ends up in nothing but fallacies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah, but the fact that they nixed that idea and waited for Legion proves my point.
    It does not prove shit.

    It seems you have some weird existential need to be right so you jump at every straw you can grasp no matter how much of a weird take it is.

    Reality is - you're a hindsight 20/20 poster, but the problem is that your posting history does not match your post-mortem declarations, so it's kind of funny.

    Neither is a strategy of shooting a machine gun at a side of a barn and having some bullets eventually hit is an original thing that people can't see through.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  7. #67
    I think it would be a safe bet to say that WoW will most likely not get any more classes after Evoker. A safer bet would probably be not getting a new class after Evoker for a long while.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    I think it would be a safe bet to say that WoW will most likely not get any more classes after Evoker. A safer bet would probably be not getting a new class after Evoker for a long while.
    Bruh... in case you did not realize it yet, WoW will go for another half a dozen expansions the least. You can bet at least one of them will have a new class and given the odds so far, it is also likely it will be a "hero" class.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Bruh... in case you did not realize it yet, WoW will go for another half a dozen expansions the least. You can bet at least one of them will have a new class and given the odds so far, it is also likely it will be a "hero" class.

    You are totally capable of pointing out the likelihood of something instead of trying to argue something is correct/incorrect based on the "you just wait and see" approach... aren't you?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    You are totally capable of pointing out the likelihood of something instead of trying to argue something is correct/incorrect based on the "you just wait and see" approach... aren't you?
    Nonsense, your "most likely" is totally sucked out of thumb for no reason whatsoever. Anyone with a lick of sense can see that, unless you're one of those weirdos who think Dragonflight is the last expansion or WoW is going to die soon.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  11. #71
    The Lightbringer Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Outside of a Demonic invasion, why else would you introduce Demon Hunters? Additionally, where else on Azeroth would be more appropriate for a demonic invasion on a new landmass than the Broken Isles?



    Eh, Deathwing was a playable hero in WC2. Also in WC2, Alexstraza was behind the Dragonroost, which allowed the horde to produce dragon units. Additionally, in WC3 you could play as a Blue, Red, Black, Green, or Bronze dragon. Blue had a frost attack, and Bronze had a lightning attack. Evokers potentially have those breath attacks.

    So yeah, this class also has a basis in the RTS games.
    Literally any landmass that demons invaded could have introduced Demon Hunters.

    And again, having a bunch of dragons in the RTS does not mean Evokers are rooted in it. Evokers are fresh, they're new. They've never been seen or mentioned before. This is an entirely new race and class. You're making another reach to apply one of your points to the class. Every new class has been directly from the RTS, until now.
    Last edited by Jazzhands; 2022-06-04 at 03:34 PM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    You are totally capable of pointing out the likelihood of something instead of trying to argue something is correct/incorrect based on the "you just wait and see" approach... aren't you?
    Eh, people have been saying that since the DK yet here we are.

    Honestly, I feel like borrowed power systems likely take a "new class worth" of development each expansion, so with their removal we might be seeing more classes in the future than we previously expected.

  13. #73
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    The only requirement is that the class must thematically make sense. Blizz has outwardly stated this.

    Every other point is coincidental or mostly untrue.

    1. Major Lore Figure: this is the same as expansion theme, and is coincidental and incorrect in a way. Evokers don't technically have a major lore figure, unless they introduce one. There is no evoker class, they were created to fill a role and then sealed away. LK had deathknights, Panda had monks, Legion had demon hunters, the lore figure for each expansion is coincidentally attached to the class.
    Evokers are dragons, and they possess the abilities that Alexstraza, Chromie, and Deathwing had in MOBA. So yeah, they're based on draconic characters like Alexstraza or Wrathion, right down to their visage forms.

    2. Playable version in MOBA/RTS: weak argument, wow classes are pretty far removed from their RTS and MOBA counterparts, just because it's a different game with different mechanics. Evokers break this as well, there are dragon themed heros in hots but they are just being themselves and using dragon abilities. At this point mostly everything created will just be reskinned abilities from other classes.
    Evoker is literally the class side of a dragon, granting the draconic race (Dracthyr) its draconic abilities (once again, the same abilities as Alexstraza, Chromie, and Deathwing from HotS).


    4. Abilities that don't fit other classes: this one is the least thought out, if anything Evokers are the first class that has been made specifically stating they can do things other herosmakes. But that isnt going to stip them from feeling like repeats. DKs are magic warriors and take their abilities largely from that concept, with the exception of a few abilities, a lot of their kit could be in other classes kits. Monks: ditto as DK, there are a few very specific themed things like their alcoholism, otherwise their kits could work elsewhere. DHs are literally rogue-demonology spec, with traps from SV hunter. Evokers are going to mostly come off as mouth breathing mages.
    DKs are necromancers. No existing class in WoW would have the ability to raise the dead or perform necromantic abilities like Death and Decay or Unholy Frenzy.

    No other class in WoW would allow barehanded unarmed combat (martial arts) like Monks offer. Every other melee class required a weapon. Additionally, you had the brewing side from the Brewmaster hero.

    While DHs had attributes of both Rogues and Warlocks, neither class could completely offer the complete DH package. Hence why a DH class was created once Metamorphosis was decoupled from Warlocks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It doesn't matter. The average WoW player does not consume non-WoW products like the TCG and the TTRPG. None of that changes the fact that Chen was an obscure character in WoW, too.
    What the average WoW player consumes is irrelevant to the popularity and clout of the character.


    No. It's not "just semantics". Because your point implies that we got Demon Hunters "because we had Broken Isles" which is a false statement to make. We didn't need the Broken Isles for the inclusion of demon hunters. The Legion could have invaded through the Dark Portal again. Or created a whole new portal elsewhere.
    I'm pretty sure Blizzard specifically said that they waited for just the right expansion to release the DH class. They had been trying to release the class for some time, but the thematics of the expansion never lined up (see WotLK).


    Warlocks could easily take the kit,
    Then why haven't they?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    It does not prove shit.

    It seems you have some weird existential need to be right so you jump at every straw you can grasp no matter how much of a weird take it is.

    Reality is - you're a hindsight 20/20 poster, but the problem is that your posting history does not match your post-mortem declarations, so it's kind of funny.

    Neither is a strategy of shooting a machine gun at a side of a barn and having some bullets eventually hit is an original thing that people can't see through.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah, I'm definitely taking a break too. It's good to know that all of this speculation will be over soon, and we can discuss some definition.

    My final predictions:

    -Alexstraza on cover (Main character of expansion)
    -Alexstraza main character in cinematic
    -New Dragon class based on Alexstraza HotS with mail armor
    -Dragonmaw and Wildhammer customizations
    -Some new BS continent with Dragon Isles serving as a destination
    -Wrathion will pop up
    -Voidwings will constitute a raid
    You're free to check the date. I think I modified it a bit in the end, but this was pretty much where I was going on the eve of the announcement.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You're free to check the date. I think I modified it a bit in the end, but this was pretty much where I was going on the eve of the announcement.
    Bruh, on the "eve of the announcement" we already had a few credible paths. We already knew Dragon expansion was coming, not a big genius there to figure out that dragon expansion might or will feature Dragon-themed class/race.

    Especially given Evokers were leaked a few weeks before.

    So yeah, big star there, bruh.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  15. #75
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Bruh, on the "eve of the announcement" we already had a few credible paths. We already knew Dragon expansion was coming, not a big genius there to figure out that dragon expansion might or will feature Dragon-themed class/race.

    Especially given Evokers were leaked a few weeks before.

    So yeah, big star there, bruh.
    Where were Evokers leaked a few weeks before? Also would you prefer a prediction from back in January?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Reminds me a bit of Alexstraza from HotS;

    https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/wiki/Alexstrasza

    IMO, Alexstraza should be the blueprint for a Dragon-based class.
    Also most people thought we were getting the TTRPG Dragonsworn class, not the race/class combined concept (i.e. a playable dragon) that we got;

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...vs-Dragonborne

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The expansion classes house abilities that simply wouldn't work with classes that existed at the time.
    So much for DK's then.

  17. #77
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    So much for DK's then.
    There was another class that could handle Necromancy?

  18. #78
    All abilities are nothing but skins and colours. There's no such thing as an ability that cannot be given to ANY class. Literally. With a smidgen of creativity there are no boundries.

  19. #79
    So you cracked the formula that a new class has to fit the corresponding addon's theme and adds new abilities?
    Wow, those are gamechanging revelations.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    Literally any landmass that demons invaded could have introduced Demon Hunters.
    This is true.

    Broken Isles barely has any long-standing connection to Demon Hunters. Even throughout the questing, the only thing relevant about the landmass was the location of the Pillars of Creation, and they were being guarded/sought out by agents of the Old Gods like Xavius, Azshara and the Drogbar King. The Vault of the Wardens was only located there out of narrative convenience, otherwise @Eosia was right that they should be imprisoned in Barrow Dens like they were in WC3.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

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