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  1. #21
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    I dont get. As far as I can tell its literally all old resto abilities and talents and powers repackaged into a new grid. Nothing new or added just a shuffle. This sucks dude.

  2. #22
    Love it. Excellent direction.

  3. #23
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyi View Post
    This exactly. Not only will this ultimately become a set it and forget it system, but it only offers a falsehood of choice. Anyone doing anything remotely competitive will have a “build” that is best. All this has done is forced people back to addons/calculators to figure it out or save the builds.

    Almost like how stat reforging used to be. Just used an add on, clicked a couple of buttons and boom done. Not really complicated or interesting.
    Isn't that ALWAYS the case though? Something will always be the "best" choice, be it the classes to select for MDI / raiding, the specs, the gear, the exact talents or rotation to use, reputation faction. I don't see why this is an issue, it offers choice and that's good.

  4. #24
    Renamed it to Ability Tree.

  5. #25
    I feel the design of these types of talent trees is quite a lot of work. While I do like this iteration since it gives you more choice, though not as much as people seem to think, I feel it's going to delay the release of the expansion as well as suffer through continuous rebalancing after release too. Yes, this happens every time but this time it will be on a different scale I think.
    One issue I see here is putting relatively mandatory abilities, for a certain spec, (e.g. Sunfire) in the class tree thus limiting the choices a Balance druid has as well as it being a dead ability for Guardian and Feral druids. This goes back to what I said previously which is that it's a lot of design work that might not translate to enough interesting choices.
    They are also sticking to specializations, for obvious and justified reasons, which also complicates things in this new hybridity-promoting talent system iteration. I would have liked to see one talent tree for each class with each spec having different starting points that are in the center of their spec's section. Then they can either go for more spec talents or hybrid ones (towards the center) but going towards the center you will still have to pick some spec talents along the way.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    People that never played with the original talent system or who have a romanticised view of it pretend like it gave you lots of choice and originality when in reality 90% were the same net build and most of the choices are just filler.

    The game moved away from this for a reason.
    With that opinion you clearly never played back then.

    There were plenty of choices you could do... it was nowhere near 90% being same, thats a choice done by individuals, if they wanna copy someone elses build then they will copy it regardless of what talent trees we have, even today people copy from the bis lists.

    But today we have nowhere near as much variety to choose from anyway.

    You werent exactly specific so that means youre talking about the entire game, which makes you completely wrong... if you had said something specific like raiding then sure you had to often be a specific spec, cant be a firemage in molten core after all, but everywhere else like PvP you could choose from variety of builds with nuances.

    Such as: frost mage, fire mage, pom mage (both frost and fire side, with or without AP) and elemental mage. All had strengths and weaknesses, sure some are considered stronger than others but none of them were completely useless. Each provide slightly different playstyles and tools (not to mention "filler" talents you can swap around).
    Other classes have different builds too, you dont always have to follow the mainstream unless ofcourse the game doesnt let you do anything special.


    So you saying the old talent builds didnt offer any meaningful choice is just false. Only minmaxers would say that... since to them it would be preposterous to play anything but the perfect setup!

  7. #27
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    So basically the same system we have now but with the illusion of some choice between the nodes.

    Let's watch all the idiots lap this up.

  8. #28
    Meh, why DK & Druids? I have no clue of their recent gameplay/skills. So i dont know if this looking good or bad. Hope next ist Monk or Warrior...

  9. #29
    This is so bad. Half of the talents are shit, meaning its a no brainer how to spec.

  10. #30
    I think you guys have something really good here.

    The only things I have pause with are the fact that it doesn't appear like we're getting many new talents? Which feels bad. It also feels like hybridization isn't going to be much possible? Like you're locking a lot of stuff behind specialization into a specific tree. That defeats the purpose of a lot of customization.

  11. #31
    for raids there will always be a cooki cutter build that gives you the biggest e-peen numbers
    but the game isn't only about raiding anymore
    for solo play and dungeons you can finally do some "unique" builds

  12. #32
    I've played since vanilla and when the MoP system came out, I was so happy to have the ability to swap talents around like a Swiss Army Knife depending on what I was going to do.
    I did NOT miss the old trees and found them cumbersome and not fun.

    None the less, this is a new iteration and I was going to try to be open minded and give this a chance.

    I main feral druid, so seeing the druid tree gives me a pretty idea how this system is going to play out, and my worst fears are confirmed.
    This will feel horrible.
    I will NEVER be able to have as many abilities as I have right now in Shadowlands.
    Not only will I still (basically) be in a situation where I can (have to) change talents to do different things for different situations, I will also be missing some of the things I can do right now, in order to keep some of the other things I can do right now.

    No matter the story, the systems, or the art, the success of every expansion as far as my enjoyment of it, has always been 'how does my character feel to play'.
    This looks like it is going to feel really bad.

    This may have already killed DF for me before it even ships.

  13. #33
    Hello there,

    Some background, I am gladiator exp player and resto druid is my main class/spec. I also play multiple other classes and specs, but right now I would like to provide some feedback on the proposed talents trees from a resto druid perspective. The feedback is aimed for blizzard, hopefully some blues will read it.
    First of all, in my opinion the talent trees look great. However, there are some small problems that I would like to point out.
    General Druid talent tree:
    1.It says Natures cure is resto druid's basic spell, is learned by default, and it is combined with Remove corruption if the talent is learned. Obviously, resto druid doesn't need Remove corruption yet we have to waste talent point on it in order to have access to some vitally important druid talents down the road.
    2. Shred and Mangle do not appear on druid basic spells list nor are they on any talent tree, for any druid spec. Have they vanished? If blizzard makes shred accessable to feral spec only how do we generate combo points for maim?(by spamming rake on target?)
    3. Right now Tireless Pursuit conduit lasts around 5 secs for 252ilvl+ conduits, on the proposed talent tree it's only 2 secs. In order for it to be a decent talent it has to be at least 4 seconds, otherwise it's just worthless to be a talent.
    4. On live if you choose feral affinity talent, you can have a total of 3 stuns - mighty bash, rake stun, and maim. If you choose guardian affinity you can have both incapacitating roar and mighty bash. With this proposed talent tree we no longer have access to rake stun and have to choose between incapacitating roar and mighty bash. Losing crowd control abilities is a big let down if you ask any PvP player, I don't feel good about it either. Making mighty bash druid basic spell and replacing it with rake stun on the talent tree might be a good compromise.(Edit: Skull bash interrupt ability compensates for this crowd control ability loss)
    Restoration druid talent tree:
    5. Nourish is a useless spell on live, why should we have it as a talent choice if no one will ever use it? I think the spell needs to be redesigned, replaced, or removed altogether.
    6. Unstoppable Growth is a very week talent choice and yet it cannot be skipped. It has to be skip-able or should be replaced with another talent. Swapping its place with Stone bark will make it somewhat skip-able. But even then, the talent itself has to be redesigned because no one will want it in its current iteration.
    7. Invigorate is an interesting talent choice, but it will be of little worth in arena vs double purge comps. Can we have it so that it makes the hots affected be immune to purge for the length of their shortened duration? I always struggle when facing those comps, if not this then we definitely need some other purge protection beside Lifebloom and Cenarion ward.

    The general druid tree looks interesting overall. There are a lot of choices you can make and yet you don't have enough talent points to have them all, which is good. The restoration talent tree, on the other hand, needs more work on it. There are a few weak 2 rank talents you would never want to spend talent points on and yet they must taken in order to have access to some important talents further down(for example Unstoppable growth). Weak talents should be optional.


    EDIT/Update 06/06/22 ---------------------- Some talent/spell Redesign ideas

    Nourish: Plant a seed on a friendly target that will linger for 1 min, if the target falls to 50% health or lower the seed will heal for x% of your maximum health(equal to your mastery rating) and is consumed in the process. Cast-able only while in combat, 2 seconds cast time. If the target is at 90%+ health, cast time is reduced by 0.7 secs. Soul of the forest and Nature's swiftness also affect this spell. Planted seed is immune to dispel/purge and expires if target leaves combat.(Note: the idea here is to make Nourish a mana efficient healing effect and provide depth to restoration druid play style)

    (Edit 06/08/22, I came up with another version of Nourish that might be better, less clunky, and easier to understand and use than the one above)
    Nourish v.2: Plant a seed on a friendly target that will linger for 1 min, if the target falls to 50% health or lower the seed will heal for x% of your maximum health(x - equal to your mastery rating) and is consumed in the process. Instant cast, cast-able only on targets above 80% health. Limit - maximum 5 seeds at a time, 1 seed on any player. Soul of the forest and Nature's swiftness also affect this spell. A planted seed is immune to dispel/purge effects. If target leaves and/or not in combat maximum duration is reduced to 15 seconds. (Planted seeds do not benefit from Mastery: Harmony)

    Improved Cultivation: When Cultivation heals a target below 60% health it will also extend the remaining duration of active Rejuvenations by 1 sec on them. Can happen only once every 10 seconds.

    Improved Regrowth: Regrowth critical chance is increased by [x/2x%] (equal to your mastery rating) for each healing over time effect on the target, if the talent is not learned Regrowth has additional 20% critical strike chance by default. Two Rank Talent. (This talent must be optional, i.e. skip-able)

    Improved Omen of Clarity: Any over-healing done by Regrowth cast when Omen of Clarity is active increases the healing of Regrowth healing over time effect on the target for the amount over-healed. ( Sometimes Omen of Clarity procs when you don't need or want to cast Regrowth, especially when everyone at or near full health.)

    Ysera's Gift: Heals you for [2/4%] of your maximum health every 5 seconds. Cooldown is reduced by 0.5 secs for every different healing over time effect on any target, by up to a maximum of 3 secs. If you are at full health, an injured party or raid member will be healed instead. Two Rank Talent. ( This talent might fix survivability problems of resto druids in arena, which is a big issue right now in Shadowlands.)

    Improved Efflorescence: Efflorescence radius increased by an additional 5 yards and now heals one additional injured ally.

    Improved Circle of Life and Death: Casting Regrowth extends the duration of your healing over time effects on the target by 2 seconds.

    Unstoppable Growth: Wild Growth's duration increased by [1/2] seconds . Two Rank Talent. (Note: this iteration still does not justify its current placement on the talent tree)


    EDIT/Update 06/07/22 --------------

    There is a working talent calculator that can be accessed at mythictrap.com/dragonflights-talents? . I tinkered and tried different builds for balance, resto, and guardian druids. I must say that whoever did the guardian druid talent tree has done an incredible job. There are so many paths you can take and there are only 3 talents that are basic spells taken from spell book and 3 minor passives, all others are enhancements to guardian abilities - that's just amazing work! I think I will want to PvE again exclusively as guardian druid in Dragon flight. Did I also mention there are no shit mandatory talents to pick in order to advance further down? In comparison, restoration druid talent tree has 5 core spells and 3 passives taken from spell book - how fair, isn't it? Balance druid talent tree looks good too, maybe not as good as guardian druid's, but still way better than restoration druid talent tree. I think the top half of resto druid talent tree has to be redesigned for sure.
    By the way, I counted 45,43,47, and 45 spendable talent slots(including ranks) for guardian, resto, balance, and feral druid, respectively. Shouldn't they all be equal in number?
    (Edit: it appears they split Berserk into 2 talents, what a lame job. Core spells and passives need to be in spell book, not in talent tree.)


    EDIT/Update 06/08/22 --------------

    I noticed a few discrepancies on Balance druid talent tree:
    Circle of Life and Death is indicated as 2 rank talent, but unlike many other multiple rank talents it has no multiplier. I assume it is an error since every other druid specialization tree has only 1 rank on Circle of Life and Death. Power of Goldrinn is also 2 rank talent and has no multiplier in its description - I assume this might also be a single rank talent. If not, then its description has to be updated.

    EDIT/Update 06/09/22 --------------

    I built different paths according to my taste for my balance, resto, and guardian specs in general class tree to see their interaction with spec trees. So far, I can say that the class tree is very much well designed for every of these 3 druids specs. However, I noticed a few problems:
    1. I don't like the placement of Soothe. It's an ability that is rarely used in PvE content and completely useless in PvP, yet it has to be picked to gain access to some important abilities and buffs. I think it's placement should be similar to that of Maim talent.
    2. Right now Wild charge talent ability changes according to your shapeshift form. The description of Wild charge on the proposed class tree only mentions its functionality in no form state, which is a heavily pruned version of it. If this goes unchanged no one will want this talent anymore. I hope and assume that omitted description was an error, just like omitted abilities such as Shred and Mangle as baseline spells for all druids.

    EDIT/Update 06/10/22 --------------

    I a built a new talent tree for Resto druids. When designing it I had the following in mind:
    1. Not using any basic core spells from spell book.
    2. Adding new talents/ buffs and place them in such a way that it's less restrictive and provides opportunities to build a massive number of different and interesting builds
    3. Placing AoE talents in the left side and Single target talents on the right side of the talent tree wherever possible.
    4. Restoration druids are one of the weakest healers as of season 3 in Shadowlands. Let me dive a bit deeper and explain why exactly it's the case. Resto druid's main healing throughput comes in form heal over time(HoT) effects. When druid's empowered HoTs are dispelled his throughput is significantly hampered. Resto druid needs to ramp up his healing, build empowered HoTs through Soul of the Forest and then extend them via Verdant Infusion legendary. When your empowered HoTs are dispelled and there is no big HoT left to extend the healing throughput falls dramatically. No other healer is so vulnerable to dispel/purge effects as resto druid is, 'purger' classes can negate up to 80-90% of all resto druid's healing whenever they go into purge mode. In season 2, resto druids weren't that bad, because it was possible to put Cenarion ward on one of your teammates and extend it up to 2 times and virtually have 100% uptime on that HoT, which heals more than SoF empowered Rejuvenation and is Immune to dispel effects. In season 3 Cenarion ward was nerfed so that it's no longer possible to extend it for a 2nd time. So basically, when you have Cenarion ward up you are fine and when you don't have it you are in trouble. These talents I came up with are intended to fix this vulnerability by giving resto druids a bit more dispel/purge protection.



    Restoration Druid Baseline Abilities

    Nature’s Cure: Cures harmful effects on the friendly target, removing all Magic effects. Combines with Remove Corruption if known.

    Lifebloom: Heals the target over 15 seconds. When Lifebloom expires or is dispelled, the target is instantly healed. May be active on one target at a time.

    Efflorescence: Grows a healing blossom at the target location, restoring a small amount of health to three injured allies within 10 yards every 2 seconds for 30 seconds.

    Nature's Swiftness: Your next Regrowth, Rebirth, or Entangling Roots is instant, free, castable in all forms, and heals for an additional 100%.

    Ironbark: The target's skin becomes as tough as Ironwood, reducing damage taken by 20% for 12 seconds.

    Omen of Clarity: Your healing over time from Lifebloom has a 4% chance to cause a Clearcasting state, making your next Regrowth cost no mana.

    Tranquility: Heals all allies within 40 yards 8 seconds. Each heal heals the target for a small amount over 8 sec, stacking. Healing increased by 100% when not in a raid.

    Ysera's Gift: Heals you for 3% of your maximum health every 5 seconds. If you are at full health, an injured party or raid member will be healed instead. Two Rank Talent.


    Restoration Row 1

    Improved Lifebloom: Lifebloom is now treated as [1/2] additional Restoration heal over time effect(s) for Mastery: Harmony. Two Rank Talent.

    Restoration Row 2

    Improved Efflorescence: Efflorescence's radius increased by 2 yards and its healing increased by 10%.
    (edit 07/3: talent slightly modified)

    Nourish: Plant a seed on a friendly target that will heal for 3% of your maximum health if consumed. A planted seed will gradually grow and mature over 25 secs and increase its potential healing by up to 400% depending on its maturity state. If target falls to 50% health or below with a fully matured seed, the seed will be consumed and heal for its maximum amount. Recasting Nourish on a target already having a seed will consume existing seed(regardless of its maturity state), trigger its healing effect, and plant a new seed in its place. If missing health on the target is less than seed's healing, existing seed will instead break into 20 smaller seeds, each healing and consuming itself in succession every time your HoT effects heal your target. Instant cast. Seed's auto heal effect does not benefit from Mastery: Harmony. A planted seed is immune to dispel/purge effects. If target leaves combat seed will expire in 18 secs(reentering combat within 18 secs will remove its expiration). Limit - maximum 3 seeds at a time, 1 seed on any player. (edit 06/12: slightly changed spell's functionality)(edit 06/21: talent modified, maturity functionality added)(edit 06/23: talent modified, added consummation functionality on recast)(edit 07/7: talent modified, added breaking functionality.)
    (Note: This talent might fix survivability problems of resto druids in arena(especially when combined with Improved Nourish 2 talent), which is a big issue right now in Shadowlands.)

    Improved Omen of Clarity: Clearcasting state now increases your healing of Regrowth by 15%.

    Restoration Row 3

    Improved Wild Growth [NNF]: Wild Growth heals 1 additional target.

    Improved Nourish 1: You can now have a maximum of 5 active seeds at any time.


    Improved Tranquility and Wild Growth[NNF]: Increases healing done by Tranquility and Wild Growth based on the current health of the target. Lower heal targets are healed for more.

    Improved Nourish 2: Fully mature seeds now auto trigger their healing effect at or below 40% health. Soul of the Forest now also affects Nourish and increases its healing by 100%.
    (edit 06/24: talent slightly modified)

    Stonebark: Ironbark increases healing from your heal over time effects by 20%.

    Restoration Row 4

    Unstoppable Growth: Wildgrowth duration increased by 1 sec.

    (Edit 06/30 : added new talent)
    Prosperity : Swiftmend now has 2 charges, but its cooldown is increased by 3 secs. Casting Swiftmend on any target now also applies one of the missing HoT effects on yourself(expcept Lifebloom, to ensure it doesn't get relocated when you have it on somebody else). (edit 07/3: talent modified)(Resto druids right now use most of their GCDs for applying HoTs and thus rarely have time to do some damage, this talent will free some GCDs by applying HoTs on yourself)(In comparison, Holy paladins can cast 2 Word of Glory's almost back to back when they have 5 holy power. I think Resto druids should have something similar.)

    Inner Peace: Reduces the cooldown of Tranquility by [30/60] seconds. While channeling Tranquility, you take 20% reduced damage and are immune to knockbacks. Two Rank Talent.

    Improved Regrowth [NNF]: Regrowth's initial heal has a [20%/40%] increased chance for a critical effect if the target is already affected by Regrowth. Two Rank Talent.

    Improved Ironbark [NNF]: Ironbark cooldown is reduced by [15/30] seconds. Two Rank Talent.

    Restoration Row 5

    Soul of the Forest: Swiftmend increases the healing of your next Regrowth or Rejuvenation by 200%, or your next Wild Growth by 75%.

    Well of Existence: 8% of all healing done to targets above 50% health is now replicated and stored in Well of Existence. When you cast Regrowth to a friendly target below 50% health you gain buff of Focused Healing increasing all of your healing on that target by 12% for 10 seconds or until Well of Existence is depleted. When you cast Wildgrowth to any target below 50% health you gain buff of Dispersed Healing and gain the same functionality on all targets affected by your Wild Growth. 2nd rank Well of Existence puts an absorb shield for 15% of your maximum health for 10 secs on targets with 30% health or below that are/were affected by your Lifebloom or Nourish in the last 10 secs. Can happen only once every 30 secs per target. Your Well of Existence can hold stored healing up to [30%/50%] of your maximum health. Over healing does not fill your Well of Existence. Two rank talent. (Edit 06/22: 2nd rank modified, added absorb shield functionality similar to Ooz's Frictionless Coating, necrolord ability)
    (Note: This talent can be made universal to all healer specializations, with slight modifications.)

    (Edit 06/13, added new talent)
    Enhanced Regrowth: Regrowth's initial heal has an additional 20% increased chance for a critical effect if the target is already affected by Regrowth. If it doesn't critically strike Regrowth will apply one of your missing heal over time effects on the target. If all HoTs are present Regrowth will always critically strike.

    Cultivation: When Rejuvenation heals a target below 60% health, it applies Cultivation to the target, healing them for a small amount over 6 seconds.

    Restoration Row 6

    Improved Nature’s Swiftness [NNF]: Nature’s Swiftness cooldown is reduced by [10/20] seconds. Two rank Talent.


    Improved Soul of the Forest: Swiftmend now also increases the duration of your next Regrowth, Rejuvenation, or Wild Growth HoT by 2 secs. Improved Soul of the forest renders affected HoTs immune to dispel/purge effects.
    (Edit 06/21: talent modified. 2 secs HoT extension compensates for Vendant Infusion nerf that went from 10 secs to 8 secs)
    I wish SoF empowered HoTs had different spell IDs so we could track them and not accidentally refresh with regular HoTs.

    Improved Cultivation: When cultivation heals a friendly target below 60% it also extends your active Rejuvenations on that target by 1 sec. This cannot happen more than once every 20 seconds.(edit 06/24: timer increased from 10 secs to 20 secs)

    Choice Node:

    Invigorate: Your heal over time effects on the target complete their healing 100% faster. 45 second cooldown. Invigorate renders affected HoTs immune to dispel/purge effects.
    Memory of the Mother Tree: Wild Growth has a 40% chance to cause your next Rejuvenation or Regrowth to apply to 3 additional allies within 20 yards of the target.

    Restoration Row 7

    Germination: You can apply Rejuvenation twice to the same target. Rejuvenation's duration is increased by 2 seconds.

    Choice Node:

    Cenarion Ward: Protects a friendly target for 30 seconds. Any damage taken will consume the ward and heal the target over 8 seconds.
    Abundance: For each Rejuvenation you have active, Regrowth's cost is reduced by 6% and critical effect chance is increased by 6%.

    Improved Ysera's Gift: Ysera's Gift frequency is now increased by 0.5 sec for every different active HoT effect on all targets, by up to a maximum of [2/3] seconds. Two Rank talent.


    Improved Invigorate: When you cast Nourish, Swiftmend, or Wild Growth you apply Invigorated buff on affected targets for 8 secs, which causes all your HoTs on them to complete their healing in up to [15/30%] less time, depending on their missing health. Two rank talent.(edit 7/5, talent modified)

    Restoration Row 8

    Choice Node:

    Spring Blossoms: Each target healed by Efflorescence is healed for a small amount of additional healing over 6 seconds.
    Overgrowth: Apply Lifebloom, Rejuvenation, Wild Growth, and Regrowth's heal over time effect to an ally.


    Rampant Growth: Regrowth heals for more over its duration, and its healing over time effect also applies to the target of your Lifebloom.

    Autumn Leaves: Rejuvenation's duration is increased by 1 sec, and it heals for an additional amount when it is your only heal over time on the target.

    Grove Tending: Swiftmend heals the target for over 9 seconds.


    Restoration Row 9

    (Edit 6/19, added new talent)
    Improved Overgrowth : Overgrowth now also applies Cenarion Ward to the target, but its cooldown is increased by 30 secs.(If target is already affected by Cenarion Ward, existing Cenarion Ward will be replaced by the new one or vice versa.)(edit 06/24: cooldown increased by 30 secs(was 15 secs))
    (Note: This talent is a strong alternative to Enhanced Regrowth. Enhance Regrowth would be best vs melee teams when you can gain distance and freely cast most of the time. Improved Overgrowth, on the other hand, will let you cast less and avoid getting interrupted vs ranged classes in arena.)

    Choice Node:

    Photosynthesis: While your Lifebloom is on yourself, your periodic heals heal 20% faster. While your Lifebloom is on an ally, your periodic heals on them have a 4% chance to cause it to bloom.
    The Dark Titan's Lesson: You may Lifebloom two targets at once.

    Choice Node:

    Incarnation: Tree of Life: Shapeshift into the Tree of Life, increasing healing done by 15%, increasing armor by 120%, and granting protection from Polymorph effects. Functionality of Rejuvenation, Wild Growth, Regrowth, and Entangling Roots is enhanced. Lasts 30 seconds. You may shapeshift in and out of this form for its duration.
    Convoke the Spirits: Call upon the Druidic ancestors for an eruption of energy, channeling a rapid flurry of 16 Druid spells and abilities over 4 seconds. You will cast Wild Growth, Swiftmend, Moonfire, Wrath, Regrowth, Rejuvenation, Rake, and Thrash on appropriate nearby targets, favoring your current shapeshift form.


    Improved Innervate [NNF]: If you cast Innervate on somebody else, you gain its effect at 50% effectiveness. Passive: Mana regeneration increased 5%.


    Restoration Row 10

    Adaptive Swarm: Command a swarm that heals or deals Shadow damage over 12 sec to a target, and increases the effectiveness of your periodic effects on them by 20%. Upon expiration, finds a new target, preferring to alternate between friend and foe up to 3 times.

    Enhanced Cultivation: Cultivation and Improved Cultivation will now trigger their functionalities on targets below [75/90%] health. Two rank talent.
    (edit 06/30: [70/80%] changed to [75/90%])

    Circle of Life and Death: Your damage over time effects deal their damage in 25% less time, and your healing over time effects in 15% less time.

    Improved Incarnation and Convoke [NNF]: Shifting out of Incarnation before it expires ends the effect and refunds a portion of its cooldown. Convoke the Spirits has an increased chance to use an exceptional spell or ability.

    Ephemeral Incarnation: Every 3 casts of Swiftmend grants you Incarnation: Tree of Life for 9 seconds.
    This 4-tier set ability is incredibly powerful right now in season 3, but it's only true for PvE where you can control its proc and trigger it when you really need it. Unfortunately, in PvP you can't control its proc much, because all resto druids are forced to play with Verdant Infusion legendary forcing you to use Swiftmend on cooldown to ensure you extend your HoTs as frequently as possible. So in PvP, Incarnation proc is more random and therefore we don't benefit it from it much. Therefore, I think this talent should be redesigned or removed as an option and replaced with another talent.(edit 7/4)
    So here is one redesign option:

    Ephemeral Incarnation: Every 3 casts of Swiftmend grants you ability to trigger Incarnation: Tree of Life for 9 seconds when you use Ironbark or Barkskin.


    Choice Node:

    Flourish: Extends the duration of all of your heal over time effects on friendly targets within 60 yards by 8 sec, and increases the rate of your heal over time effects by 100% for 8 seconds.
    Verdant Infusion: Swiftmend no longer consumes a heal over time effect, and extends the duration of your heal over time effects on the target by 8 seconds.


    Vision of Unending Growth: Rejuvenation healing has a 2% chance to create a new Rejuvenation on a nearby target.


    EDIT/Update 06/15/22 --------------

    I also redesigned guardian druid talent tree. Please have a look:



    Guardian druid base abilities:

    Maul : Maul the target for Physical damage.

    Gore: Thrash, Swipe, Moonfire, and Maul have a 15% chance to reset the cooldown on Mangle, and to cause it to generate an additional 4 Rage.

    Mangle : Mangle the target for Physical damage. Deals additional 20% more damage against bleeding targets. (I am not sure if Blizzard wants to make this spell basic to all druids or just guardian)

    Survival Instincts: Reduces all damage you take by 50% for 6 seconds.

    Berserk: Go berserk for 15 sec, reducing the cooldowns of Mangle, Thrash, Growl, and Frenzied Regeneration by 100% and the cost of Ironfur by 50%.

    Lightning Reflexes: You gain Dodge equal to 100% of critical strike from your gear.

    Guardian Row 1

    Imroved Maul: Maul rage cost reduced by 5 for every active stack of Ironfur.

    Guardian Row 2

    Improved Gore: When gore resets cooldown of Mangle your next Maul will cost no rage.

    Vulnerable Flesh: Maul has an additional [15/30]% chance to critically strike. Two Rank Talent.

    Improved Survival Instincts: Survival Instincts duration increased by 2 secs.

    Guardian Row 3

    Choice Node:

    Brambles: Sharp brambles protect you, absorbing and reflecting damage from each attack. While Barkskin is active, the brambles also deal Nature damage to all nearby enemies every 1 seconds.
    Bristling Fur: Bristle your fur, causing you to generate Rage based on damage taken for 8 seconds.


    Improved Bear Form (or Ursine Adept) [NNF]: Bear Form gives an additional 20% stamina. Moonfire, Soothe, Remove Corruption, and Rebirth are usable in Bear Form. All Magic damage taken is reduced by 10% while in bear form. (not sure why 10% damage reduction was omitted)(Edit: 06/22, it appears 10% damage reduction will be offset by Reinforced Fur talent, but that's only physical damage reduction)
    Edit 06/16: When you leave Bear form you no longer lose rage. ( When you, as guardian druid need to move from one pack of mobs to another in mythic dungeons there are really 2 options: You either mount up just like everyone else or you go travel form. In both scenarios you lose rage. Protection warriors in comparison, don't lose rage in this way. The rage just slowly decays, just like it does for guardians if you stay in bear form. Stampeding roar is a talent now, but even if it wasn't and cooldown stayed at 1 min, it's still a problem because some packs die in less than a minute or some packs are too far from each other, for example think about Spire of Ascension dungeon.)


    Improved Survival Instincts: Survival Instincts now has 2 charges.

    Enhanced Mangle: Your first Mangle against any target causes you to take 20% less damage from all sources for 3 secs.( This talent intended to fix on pull vulnerability of guardian druids, which should be an unskippable talent. Believe me no one will want to spend 2 talent points on Ursine Vigor in general druid class tree)

    Guardian Row 4

    Pawsitive Outlook: Thrash has a [10/20]% chance to trigger an additional Thrash. Two Rank Talent.

    Infected Wounds: Mangle and Maul cause an Infected Wound in the target, reducing their movement speed by 50% for 12 seconds.

    Improved Berserk: During Berserk your Trash applies Moonfire to all targets that don't already have an active Moonfire on them. (Right now during Berserk you will want to spam Trash in AoE situations and you do not want to sacrifice any GCD on Moonfire or you will lose throughput, which I am sure every Guardian is not happy about.)

    Ursoc's Endurance: Increases the duration of Barkskin and Ironfur by [1/2] seconds. Two Rank talent.

    Gory Fur: Mangle has a 15% chance to reduce the Rage cost of your next Ironfur by 25%.

    Guardian Row 5

    Innate Resolve: Regrowth and Frenzied Regeneration healing is increased by 12.0% on yourself.

    Scintillating Moonlight: Moonfire reduces damage dealt to you by [2/4]%. Two Rank Talent.

    Tooth and Claw: Autoattacks have a 20% chance to empower your next Maul, stacking up to 2 times. Empowered Maul deals 40% increased damage and reduces the target's damage to you by 15% for 6 seconds.

    Layered Mane: Ironfur has a 5/10% chance to grant two applications. Two Rank Talent.

    Guardian Row 6

    Earthwarden: When you deal direct damage with Thrash, you gain a charge of Earthwarden, reducing the damage of the next auto attack you take by 30%. Earthwarden may have up to 3 charges.

    Reinvigoration: Frenzied Regeneration's cooldown is reduced by 10.0%.

    Twin Moonfire: Moonfire deals 20% increased damage and also hits another nearby enemy within 15 yds of the target.

    Galactic Guardian: Your damage has a 5% chance to trigger a free automatic Moonfire on that target. When this occurs, the next Moonfire you cast generates 8 Rage, and deals 300% increased direct damage.

    Innate Savagery: All physical damage done increased by [4/8%]. Two Rank talent. (This talent is meant to mimic Fury of Nature, in case you want to do build your talents around dealing more physical damage)

    Vicious Cycle: Mangle increases the damage of your next Maul, and Maul increases the damage of your next Mangle by [10/15]%. Stacks up to 3. Two Rank Talent.

    Reinforced Fur: Ironfur increases armor by an additional 4% and Barkskin reduces damage by an additional 5%.


    Guardian Row 7

    Dream of Cenarius: When you take non-periodic damage, you have a chance equal to your critical strike to cause your next Regrowth to be instant, free, and castable in all forms. Can only be used on your allies while in bear form. Cannot occur more than once every 20 seconds.

    Fury of Nature: While in Bear From, you deal [10/20]% increased Arcane damage. Two Rank Talent.

    Front of the Pack: Increases your movement speed by [5/10]%. Stampeding Roar’s radius and duration are increased by [15/30]%. Two Rank Talent.

    Enhanced Maul: Maul is now usable off GCD and has 1 sec internal GCD.

    Berserk: Unchecked Aggression: Go berserk for 15 sec, increasing haste by 15%, and reducing the rage cost of Maul by 10. Combines with other Berserk abilities, granting all known Berserk effects while active.

    Guardian Row 8

    Choice Node:

    Reckless Beast: You gain 12% Leech for every active stack of Ironfur. Any overhealing done by this leech converts to absorb shield on you. (Dream of Cenarius can never compete with Ursoc's Fury. This talent will be sometimes better, sometimes worse depending on how many stacks of Ironfur you can build on yourself.)
    Ursoc's Fury: Maul & Thrash grants you an absorb shield for 75% of all damage they deal.

    Elune's Favored: While in Bear From, you deal 30% increased Arcane damage, and are healed for 30% of all Arcane damage done.

    Circle of Life and Death: Your damage over time effects deal their damage in 25% less time, and your healing over time effects in 15% less time.

    Improved Ironfur: When Barkskin is on cooldown you take 5% less magic damage for every stack of Ironfur, stacking up to 3 times.

    Choice Node:

    Guardian of Elune: Mangle increases the duration of your next Ironfur by 2 sec, or the healing of your next Frenzied Regeneration by 20%.
    After the Wildfire: Each time you spend 200 Rage, you heal nearby allies for 3% of your maximum health.

    Guardian Row 9

    Improved Trash : Trash can now stack 1 additional time and your first Trash on any target will now apply 2 stacks of its damage over time effect. (2 stacks of damage over time effect at once is meant to decrease the time required for building stacks in case you choose Rend and Tear talent)

    Pulverize: A devastating blow that consumes 2 stacks of your Thrash on the target to deal Physical damage and reduce the damage they deal to you by 35% for 10 seconds.

    Choice Node:

    Convoke the Spirits: Call upon the Night Fae for an eruption of energy, channeling a rapid flurry of 16 Druid spells and abilities over 4 seconds. You will cast Mangle Ironfur, Moonfire, Wrath, Regrowth, Rejuvenation, Rake, and Thrash on appropriate nearby targets, favoring your current shapeshift form.
    Incarnation, Guardian of Ursoc: An improved Bear Form that grants all of your known Berserk effects, causes Mangle to hit up to 3 targets, and increases maximum health by 30%. Lasts 30 seconds. You may freely shapeshift in and out of this improved Bear Form for its duration.

    Choice Node:

    Blood Frenzy: Thrash also generates 2 Rage each time it deals damage.
    Soul of the Forest: Mangle generates 5 more Rage and deals 25% more damage.

    Survival of the Fittest: Reduces the cooldowns of Barkskin and Survival Instincts by 33%.

    Guardian Row 10

    Choice Node:

    Untamed Savagery: Increases the damage and radius of Thrash by 25%.
    Rend and Tear: Each stack of Thrash reduces the target's damage to you by 2% and increases your damage to them by 2%.


    Improved Incarnation and Convoke [NNF]: Shifting out of Incarnation before it expires ends the effect and refunds a portion of its cooldown. Convoke the Spirits has an increased chance to use an exceptional spell or ability.

    Rage of the Sleeper: Unleashes the rage of Ursoc for 10 sec, preventing 25% of all damage you take and reflecting Nature damage back at your attackers. While active, you are immune to loss of control effects.


    P.S.

    I will be adding/editting more stuff to this post if I get more ideas during development of talent trees for the specs I know well, specifically for Restoration, Guardian, and Balance and maybe some other class/spec talent trees as they become available.
    Last edited by Eluxe; 2022-07-08 at 05:04 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I dont get. As far as I can tell its literally all old resto abilities and talents and powers repackaged into a new grid. Nothing new or added just a shuffle. This sucks dude.
    This is one of the sadest things. They didn't even bother to design new capstone talents. They literally ended with the current shit.
    #1) MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    #2) Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  15. #35
    I dont see how anyone could like this system. Blizzard just took 90% of your spell book and stuck it in a tree so you could "pick" from it to get 80% of your spells back. Thats not even close to what our old talent trees did. All our spells were in our spell book except a select few which came from trees. We didnt have to pick up all our spells in this mandatory fashion. I play an ele shaman. I just looked at the TBC talents. We got 2 active abilities from talents and 3 what i am going to call ability passives. Everything else was some passive augment of some sort. This new system is looks like its half abilites and half augments, except these abilites are abilities we have had in our toolkit forever. Its pointless to have us select them. They should be baseline.

    IMO almost everything in these talent trees should be augments. From passive increases to things like damage or crit chance, to increasing the cast range of spells, allowing for melee attacks to strike twice and finally to augment abilities we already have to make them stronger and give a range of playstyles because you wont be able to augment every ability multiple times. For instance lets say for ele sham there were 3 augments for lightning bolt, Chain lightning, Earthquake, Flame shock and Earth shock but that you could only put a max out 2-3 of those augments and because you had to spread 12 points between them. This would allow players to tailor their specs to their content or to how they like their build to play.

    Right now i just feel like we are running in circles just so blizzard can say "we brought "talents" back are you happy now?" and everyone is to shallow to see it for what it truly is. A watered down dull system that has you make meaning less choices over and over again for the sake of appearing like actual talent choices.

    My suggestion is remove the bloat. Give us our abilites back as we level and put in actual passives and more ability augments that will make each class and spec different to play. Stop playing copy pasta and thinking you have done a good job. You literally took away all our toys then gave them back to us on Christmas as presents and expect us to not see through your bullshit. Well... judging by some of the comments ive read you succeeded in fooling the sheeple on this forum but hopefully they will see through this charade b4 its too late.

  16. #36
    Immortal FuxieDK's Avatar
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    So, when you get a talent point, do you have to choose wether to spend it in Class or Spec, or do you earn Class Points and Spec points individually?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    So, when you get a talent point, do you have to choose wether to spend it in Class or Spec, or do you earn Class Points and Spec points individually?
    They are different for a reason and the way they worded it you have different points for each tree. I would assume that it will be one point per level and it switches every time. The way the talent trees are structured would also support you getting around 30-35 points for each tree, seeing how the required levels are 8 points invested and 20 points. Since we have 70 levels I could see it being something like 8/12/15 that they expect us to dump into each respective third of these trees.

    Edit: Nvm, they had post about. https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ign-Philosophy
    Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2022-06-04 at 04:20 PM.
    #1) MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    #2) Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  18. #38
    Immortal TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Well, this look like all old shit being put into a new shit system. Somehow Dragonflight is actually managing to look worse to me than Shadowlands, because none of those talents are even new. Most of it is literally your spellbook just being removed and stuck into this system, frankly it looks significantly worse than the talent trees of Classic/TBC/WotLK. The legendary and Covenant powers being added make it look significantly worse, because trash like Adaptive Swarm seems to be something you're stuck with instead of a garbage power you avoided using.

    As someone else pointed out, it really isn't a talent tree as much as an ability tree. They're once again fixing something that wasn't broken, and thus breaking it in the process.

  19. #39
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Janitor View Post
    This is one of the sadest things. They didn't even bother to design new capstone talents. They literally ended with the current shit.
    yea wtf... at least we got something new before to look forward too wtf is this. Thats one way to counter ability bloat... not add any new abilities. All those people bitching about rented power well they heard you guys no more rented powers...I mean that right there is hilarious. Then they can say well people are never happy...
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2022-06-04 at 06:49 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  20. #40
    Props where its due, Blizzard is going in the right direction with these talents. Let's hope the balance is a little better and consistent moving forward.

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