Proof Survival should be a tank spec in Dragonflight

[Eosia]

The shortage being talked about is M+ there are plenty of tanks for raids with not enough raid spots. This means to get enough tanks for M+ you need to have people playing offpsecs or alts. Currently all off spec tanks except druid are melee dps in raid. Healers tend to stay healer and not swap.

Except you have one glaring confound.... not everyone wants to do M+.

This is really simple logic and for some reason you have an issue with it. Take an unused talent and make it a gladiator spec style thing for tanking that is disabled in pvp. Do this for each ranged class and there will no longer be a Tanking shortage.

Logic != Proof. Empirical > Rational.

[glowpipe]

Why does it have to be balanced ?

[bullseyed]

As someone who disliked Survival before: Its not just the insane Damage it does right now, it's the gameplay in general. 4set and Leggo simply made it much more fun to play. Throwing infinite bombs as you buddy munched away of them is much more entertaining than monitoring boring tip of the spear or mongoose bite stacks. Just remove all other talents, make the current gameplay baseline and then add new stuff on top of it.
Balance Damage accordingly.

The gameplay of SV is one of the best specs in the game in both BFA and SL, prior to tier sets. Additionally it is an extremely well-designed spec, with multiple builds for ST vs cleave vs AOE. It just has had low damage for most of its existence.

To that end... SV is actually kinda well-built to be a tank, if it goes back to being low damage after tier sets retire. Would just need some DR CDs/changes to skills for DR.

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This is silly though, because the most tanks any raid of any size can use in an encounter is 2 - which is what the encounters are designed around - whereas there are anywhere from 2 to 6 healer spots in a raid.

It doesn't have to make sense to your OCD. Creating 7 specs for a role that only has 2 slots, max, in any content, is poor design.
Hell, having 6 is.

Most of tanking is just "taunt at X stacks of debuffs" (or when DBM says to). Seems odd to not do fights with 2 things that need tanking and ergo 4 tanks more often. I assume they're just worried about tank shortages.

But given how much DPS tanks do, it seems really odd to not force melee to swap tank, when you often force healers to swap DPS based on the number of healers needed per fight changing.

[Xath]

Except you have one glaring confound.... not everyone wants to do M+.



Logic != Proof. Empirical > Rational.

Somehow I don't think what solo players do matters to group balance. I'm not saying to get rid of dps specs I'm saying to make some use of the unused talent slots that most classes have to give them ability to tank wouldn't be that hard and would have zero negative effect on you.

[RelaZ]

Survival, tank? Are you for real?

If anything Survival should be ranged (4th spec).

[mojusk]

not really a proof is it? an argument for its implementation at most.

[huth]

not really a proof is it? an argument for its implementation at most.

Not even that. It's just an illustration that the number of specs is not even... but gives no reason why that would matter. It's not an argument for anything, just a meaningless statistic.

[Eosia]

Somehow I don't think what solo players do matters to group balance. I'm not saying to get rid of dps specs I'm saying to make some use of the unused talent slots that most classes have to give them ability to tank wouldn't be that hard and would have zero negative effect on you.

Except I happen to have fun tearing things up as Survival DPS. Your entitlement wants to take that away from me. Not to mention now that the Mage Tower is back and a permanent thing, you want to take away Survival's ability to do that as well.

[Makaloff]

Except I happen to have fun tearing things up as Survival DPS. Your entitlement wants to take that away from me. Not to mention now that the Mage Tower is back and a permanent thing, you want to take away Survival's ability to do that as well.

agreed, also i dont understand peoples obsession with trying to tack on a tank specc in the hunter class, it have never been fitting and never will. Meele i can live with (even tho i wish there was a talent to go ranged as survival but whatever) but i dont get why people want a tank specc. it wont help the tank situation either for that matter.

[Eosia]

agreed, also i dont understand peoples obsession with trying to tack on a tank specc in the hunter class, it have never been fitting and never will. Meele i can live with (even tho i wish there was a talent to go ranged as survival but whatever) but i dont get why people want a tank specc. it wont help the tank situation either for that matter.

Unfortunately Survival ended up being like MM but with Magic Damage instead. I switched to it in Cataclysm after being MM most of Wrath because my key sequence doing DPS was virtually identical as it was in MM so it was a breeze to switch specs when Cata rolled around and MM lost a lot of its mobility.

These complainers also cannot grasp the concept of the fact that specs and classes are not the problem. It's how tanking works to a bigger extend and even more so with the attitudes of others. Legion saw an explosion of tanks, myself included, because spec design lowered the barrier. Then Blizzard did some nerfing and that soured things. Attitudes got worse because some of the weaker tanks could not longer compensate with ability design and such, and they got sick of it. The latter is the reason why I stopped tanking.

The thing is, if people really want to tank and be team players, they will let go of their selfish entitlement to stick to one character and will roll a DK/DH/Druid/Monk/Paladin/Warrior. If they have set groups they run M+ with they will swap in characters with others. There's a group in my guild that does this. I usually run with the same 6-7 people when I do my weekly ones but whoever is tanking might change and I might have a different healer. Sometimes they stack too since I come on my raiding main (Hunter) and do not need virtually any gear out of these dungeons so they have a chance to get some upgrades since they're on an alt. The thing is, real players who care about their guildmates and M+ mates would be willing to swap to another class for a few runs if it was needed and the favor should be returned. People complain about the lack of "community" in current WoW, well that community starts with guilds and if you won't budge for them, why should anyone else budge for you?

[Xath]

Except I happen to have fun tearing things up as Survival DPS. Your entitlement wants to take that away from me. Not to mention now that the Mage Tower is back and a permanent thing, you want to take away Survival's ability to do that as well.

Do you know how to read? I said to take an unused talent and make it into a gladiator style stance except allowing tanking instead of damage. or even to add a spec not to take away surv.

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agreed, also i dont understand peoples obsession with trying to tack on a tank specc in the hunter class, it have never been fitting and never will. Meele i can live with (even tho i wish there was a talent to go ranged as survival but whatever) but i dont get why people want a tank specc. it wont help the tank situation either for that matter.

It would help the tank situation the tank issue is largely because most dps in raids are ranged yet only one class with a ranged dps spec in the entire game has the ability to go tank. Adding either extra specs or turning unused talents into something that allows for tanking would absolutely help the critical shortage of tanks currently in 5 man content.

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Unfortunately Survival ended up being like MM but with Magic Damage instead. I switched to it in Cataclysm after being MM most of Wrath because my key sequence doing DPS was virtually identical as it was in MM so it was a breeze to switch specs when Cata rolled around and MM lost a lot of its mobility.

These complainers also cannot grasp the concept of the fact that specs and classes are not the problem. It's how tanking works to a bigger extend and even more so with the attitudes of others. Legion saw an explosion of tanks, myself included, because spec design lowered the barrier. Then Blizzard did some nerfing and that soured things. Attitudes got worse because some of the weaker tanks could not longer compensate with ability design and such, and they got sick of it. The latter is the reason why I stopped tanking.

The thing is, if people really want to tank and be team players, they will let go of their selfish entitlement to stick to one character and will roll a DK/DH/Druid/Monk/Paladin/Warrior. If they have set groups they run M+ with they will swap in characters with others. There's a group in my guild that does this. I usually run with the same 6-7 people when I do my weekly ones but whoever is tanking might change and I might have a different healer. Sometimes they stack too since I come on my raiding main (Hunter) and do not need virtually any gear out of these dungeons so they have a chance to get some upgrades since they're on an alt. The thing is, real players who care about their guildmates and M+ mates would be willing to swap to another class for a few runs if it was needed and the favor should be returned. People complain about the lack of "community" in current WoW, well that community starts with guilds and if you won't budge for them, why should anyone else budge for you?

This is so beyond dumb. People will be team players that doesn't get them their 8 M+ dungeons done on their main.

[Kiria]

Do you know how to read? I said to take an unused talent and make it into a gladiator style stance except allowing tanking instead of damage. or even to add a spec not to take away surv.

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It would help the tank situation the tank issue is largely because most dps in raids are ranged yet only one class with a ranged dps spec in the entire game has the ability to go tank. Adding either extra specs or turning unused talents into something that allows for tanking would absolutely help the critical shortage of tanks currently in 5 man content.

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This is so beyond dumb. People will be team players that doesn't get them their 8 M+ dungeons done on their main.

Simply put, you are completely wrong, If a person wants to DPS, they will DPS , if you change their DPS to a tank they will search for a new DPS class to play.

Suggesting turning more dps classes into tanks will gain more tanks is pure stupidity at its finest.

[Unholyground]

A dual class system fixes a lot of issues, I predict it is coming after Dragonflight.

[Beefhammer]

I'm your court appointed lawyer. Harvey Lightman, Paladin at Law.

Oh he's fucked.

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Do you know how to read? I said to take an unused talent and make it into a gladiator style stance except allowing tanking instead of damage. or even to add a spec not to take away surv.

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It would help the tank situation the tank issue is largely because most dps in raids are ranged yet only one class with a ranged dps spec in the entire game has the ability to go tank. Adding either extra specs or turning unused talents into something that allows for tanking would absolutely help the critical shortage of tanks currently in 5 man content.

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This is so beyond dumb. People will be team players that doesn't get them their 8 M+ dungeons done on their main.

That's how you play Rexxar in HotS. Although I don't know many hunters that would want to tank. They all love whipping out their big dick DPS numbers. Doubt any Hunters could maintain enough attention to tank. Too busy jumping all around shooting.

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Simply put, you are completely wrong, If a person wants to DPS, they will DPS , if you change their DPS to a tank they will search for a new DPS class to play.

Suggesting turning more dps classes into tanks will gain more tanks is pure stupidity at its finest.

Yup, if you made my Enhance Shaman a tank, I'd permanently play elemental on it, even though I despise ranged combat.

[Eosia]

Do you know how to read? I said to take an unused talent and make it into a gladiator style stance except allowing tanking instead of damage. or even to add a spec not to take away surv.

You apparently don't. Because Blizzard said Gladiator Stance is gone and nothing like it is coming back. Holinka already discussed this a while ago with MrGM.

This is so beyond dumb. People will be team players that doesn't get them their 8 M+ dungeons done on their main.

Dumb is throwing a temper tantrum because you think your $15/mo entitles you to dictate things to Blizzard and ever other player, also paying $15/mo, be damned.

[Xath]

You apparently don't. Because Blizzard said Gladiator Stance is gone and nothing like it is coming back. Holinka already discussed this a while ago with MrGM.



Dumb is throwing a temper tantrum because you think your $15/mo entitles you to dictate things to Blizzard and ever other player, also paying $15/mo, be damned.

Just like blizz said classic would never come alliance would never get high elves and the alliance and horde would never be able to play together.

I'm not throwing a temper tantrum my dude. You on the other hand certainly are and putting other words in my mouth because you yourself wouldn't actually learn how to tank to help your guild and play a pure dps so that you never have to.

[Eosia]

Just like blizz said classic would never come alliance would never get high elves and the alliance and horde would never be able to play together.

Classic came about due to copyright issues mainly. Their hand was forced. Alliance didn't get High Elves. They've been a Horde playable race since 2007.

[Usernameforforums]

Survival doesnt fit tank fantasy. When you’re surviving, you dont want to aggress the enemy.

[Temp name]

And it only took 5.5 years to have it not be the least played spec in the game. What a resounding success!!!

5.5 years and for it to be one of the 2 most OP specs in m+

[kiramon]

This is silly though, because the most tanks any raid of any size can use in an encounter is 2 - which is what the encounters are designed around - whereas there are anywhere from 2 to 6 healer spots in a raid.

It doesn't have to make sense to your OCD. Creating 7 specs for a role that only has 2 slots, max, in any content, is poor design.
Hell, having 6 is.

Should be weighted - average 20man raid (give or take some healers

20 person raid,
2 tanks, 4 healers, 14 dps ~
10%
20%
70%

36 specs

4 tanks
7 healers
25 dps specs



Seems tank specs are overweighted currently. Turn them into Deepz.