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  1. #21
    It's both. Players have their share of guilt as Blizzard have. They decided to design the game in a way, and players validated it.

    Right now most players got tired of this and stopped playing (doesn't mean "jumped onto other MMOs" , literally just stopped playing WoW) so things are changing.

    The only thing that works is when people don't spend money and they lose revenue.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  2. #22
    Bloodsail Admiral Rad1um's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Your implications are clear and they match EXACTLY...




    I cant carry this conversation for you anymore.


    Peace and have a good life.
    Last edited by Rad1um; 2022-06-08 at 03:24 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    It's both. Players have their share of guilt as Blizzard have. They decided to design the game in a way, and players validated it.

    Right now most players got tired of this and stopped playing (doesn't mean "jumped onto other MMOs" , literally just stopped playing WoW) so things are changing.

    The only thing that works is when people don't spend money and they lose revenue.
    Or people simply had new family and time comittments, got older, or other things that caused them to stop playing.

    People leave for many reasons, not just the opinion you project onto them.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Sluvs View Post
    It was very much the community.

    Literally the only thing that they did was add difficulties.
    This. I remember people calling end game the 'real game' with leveling just being the tutorial, back in original TBC.

  5. #25
    The game cultivates the playerbase, not the other way around.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Or people simply had new family and time comittments, got older, or other things that caused them to stop playing.

    People leave for many reasons, not just the opinion you project onto them.
    What i said doesn't exclude your point. I am not talking about the people that naturally leaves the game and the playerbase changing, but the fact that Blizzard and playersbase have built up this "relationship" where bad design while being complained about is still validated by the fact enough people still play and Blizzard makes money out of the game. The good old "vote with your wallet".

    Point is, the last investor call has been pretty harsh on the company situation. Double digit revenue loss and MAU loss. These reasons are way more powerful than people writing essays on forums or youtubers doing videos.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    What i said doesn't exclude your point. I am not talking about the people that naturally leaves the game and the playerbase changing, but the fact that Blizzard and playersbase have built up this "relationship" where bad design while being complained about is still validated by the fact enough people still play and Blizzard makes money out of the game. The good old "vote with your wallet".

    Point is, the last investor call has been pretty harsh on the company situation. Double digit revenue loss and MAU loss. These reasons are way more powerful than people writing essays on forums or youtubers doing videos.
    Well the scandal might factor into that pretty heavily, don't you think? And again, te do have those losses, but what % of that was because of game design? You don't know and that is my point. For all you know that it is a minority that leave over game design which means your argument starts to fall flat.

  8. #28
    I'm truly happy for the OP of this thread, who had this platform to get all of this off of their chest, with little to no consequence or retaliation. /s
    Sad to see they have not responded to the conversation they started.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Well the scandal might factor into that pretty heavily, don't you think? And again, te do have those losses, but what % of that was because of game design? You don't know and that is my point. For all you know that it is a minority that leave over game design which means your argument starts to fall flat.
    Every time i've seen a wow refugee talk in others MMO(ESO, FF14 and GW2) the main argument was how boring and bland wow became and how much fun they have now in their new main MMO and how much they regret not having switched game earlier.
    Very rarely the blizzard scandal come as the reasons why they stopped playing wow, it may have pushed them in their decision but it doesn't look like the main culprit.
    Last edited by Raidoser; 2022-06-08 at 05:32 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Well the scandal might factor into that pretty heavily, don't you think? And again, te do have those losses, but what % of that was because of game design? You don't know and that is my point. For all you know that it is a minority that leave over game design which means your argument starts to fall flat.
    Same thing applies to your reasoning. How many actually left for the scandal? We don't know, it's just educated guesses.

    I agree though that it's not a single oultlier, but a multitude of factors that brought us to this point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raidoser View Post
    Every time i've seen a wow refugee talk in others MMO(ESO, FF14 and GW2) the main argument was how boring and bland wow became and how much fun they have now in their new main MMO and how much they regret not having switched game earlier.
    Very rarely the blizzard scandal come as the reasons why they stopped playing wow, it may have pushed them in their decision but it doesn't look like the main culprit.
    I think playing a single game for years ends with burnout, and it's pretty natural to find the old known thing boring and the new one better/more enjoyable.

    Must be said other games took years to reach a level where they could at least compete with wow and people started to have actual options.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    I'm truly happy for the OP of this thread, who had this platform to get all of this off of their chest, with little to no consequence or retaliation. /s
    Sad to see they have not responded to the conversation they started.
    lol!

    Bait ones never seem to get closed do they

  12. #32
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    Well i stepped away from this post after making it and anyone who doubted what i had to say just read this thread. The very first comment i received was toxic. Assuming its a fake new account when in fact i have never had an mmo champion account ive always read the forums but never engaged in posts due to the toxic people around (hence the literal first commenter) Im not saying blizzard isnt at fault i even said that in my post. Im saying the toxic player base is the reason people left in droves.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Part of having an online forum is for people to vent and start a discussion. But from every single person who's responded thus far, none of you are prepared for a discussion only an argument.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    lol!

    Bait ones never seem to get closed do they
    I wish i were bating but i had other obligations (being a business owner sucks all your time away) just now got to come back to my post. So glad so many players came to prove my point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad1um View Post
    Ugh. This is the same type post #10,000 and the fact that you started a new account just to post it, tells me you weren't even confident when you decided to post.

    i spent time writing this post with the only intent to express how i feel about the game currently. You took time out of your day to comment on it. i didnt make you do it.

    No, this isn't your first account, sell that snake oil to another...

    Ive read wow news here for years but never made an account believe me or dont i really dont care.

    Blizzard got greedy. Thats it, thats the problem. You dont "BALANCE" a class by adding game tokens, forcing people who love their alts to re-grind practically everything you already did before and making it damn near impossible to change your mind about something (early on with changing covenants) because Blizzard implemented a punishment system for those who felt that covenant wasn't for them.

    You have always had to farm rep on each individual character and you have always had to request on every single character. That should not change. Your characters are separate.

    Broken PvP abilities? I didn't write that code, did anyone else here? No, im sorry, we didn't choose this.

    No you just complained so much about the abilities being in the game in the first place or them being used in raids that they needed to be restricted to PVP.

    Short sighted post.

    The player base is a reflection of the product and as you can see, the product is crap, the player base is crap, but none of us chose the shitty decisions Blizzard implemented so they can sink our game time for more money.

    The game was great then entitled people came in expecting everything to be handed to them on a silver platter. Ever consider that your characters are seperate...so of course you need to do things on them separately.

    All this is but a fraction of the issues and that has zero to do with the player base and everything to do with the fact that Blizzard has always and will always do whatever the hell they want because they love money more than they love providing players with a good time.

    Well considering they wouldnt do it if the player base didnt buy it. Stop buying crap and they will stop making it.

    Dont yall have 100,000 dollar credit card limits for our new game?
    Diablo Immortal is disgusting...but here's an idea...dont play it

  13. #33
    The biggest problem are not the players, but the current devs. They set WoWs culture to "relentless meritocracy". They develop the game for a small minority mainly. They are biased and decide everything based on their tunnel vision. They do not know their customers or what they want and they do not really care about that as well. They made the game a whale hunting ground, focused on monetarization rather than adding fun gameplay and made a lot of simply stupid design decisions simply based on the fact they do not really know how to do it correctly.

    The game is in the hands of incompetent elitist jerks, and i hope we will get rid of them ASAP. Only that would save the game.

  14. #34
    My biggest issue with World of Warcraft is the playerbase itself!

    Nah, not really. Started playing at betas, love the game, but my life and availability changed completely, and the big group of friends and guild i had the most fun with have slowly dripped away from the game, so that hinders my current enjoyment. Just isn't the same thing anymore.

    It still has the best group pve content and gameplay of any game, and i'll do a raid tier here and there, but it just doesn't keep me subbed all the time now.

    But yea, the playerbase sucks!

  15. #35
    This thread is irony incarnate.

  16. #36
    Blizzard is 100% responsible for the state of the game. They plan it, they design it, they decide what goes in and what doesn't.

  17. #37
    WoW's biggest problem is loot isn't account bound.

    If you didn't have to do the same grind over and over and over on every character it wouldn't be bad. Being limited to play 1 class and only 1 class is a terrible design, you either become a slave to a repeat grind system and be able to play multiple classes or you become a slave to one class

  18. #38
    Bait thread is bait. 1/10 for effort.

  19. #39
    Bloodsail Admiral Rad1um's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erios View Post
    Diablo Immortal is disgusting...but here's an idea...dont play it
    Dont like what I have to say? Here's an idea, dont reply ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidoser View Post
    Every time i've seen a wow refugee talk in others MMO(ESO, FF14 and GW2) the main argument was how boring and bland wow became and how much fun they have now in their new main MMO and how much they regret not having switched game earlier.
    Very rarely the blizzard scandal come as the reasons why they stopped playing wow, it may have pushed them in their decision but it doesn't look like the main culprit.
    A game you've played for years and seen everything a dozen times is stale and a brand new game you don't know anything about and have never seen anything in it is exciting? Say it ain't so.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    WoW's biggest problem is loot isn't account bound.

    If you didn't have to do the same grind over and over and over on every character it wouldn't be bad. Being limited to play 1 class and only 1 class is a terrible design, you either become a slave to a repeat grind system and be able to play multiple classes or you become a slave to one class
    And the opposite end of the spectrum we have the guys who decry "the removal of all RPG aspects" who would be even more upset if things were changed to the way you seem to want it. Funny how a player base with millions of people can have people wanting the exact opposite things.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

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