World of Warcrafts Biggest Problem...and its not Blizzard

[Relapses]

The problem with WoW is that it's been around for 20 fucking years and every player past and present has an idealized version of the game that they will insist is the only way the game should exist. That's why I can't wait for Classic to inhabit every expansion so people can just fuck off in whatever version of WoW they prefer instead of clogging up these forums with poorly written fanfiction about the "good 'ol days."

[WowIsDead64]

...

No. It's purely two-sided "feedback" problem. Devs were changing game to cater to some players and playerbase was changing according to it.
1) Devs were adapting to situation and working according to "Small cheap thing like legendary cloak grind keeps players subbed? Lets direct all resources to such content and make hypertrophied version of it".
2) Playerbase isn't static. When devs cater to some players and alienate others - playerbase changes accordingly. Yeah. Bad playerbase is caused by bad game.
3) But yeah. I agree, that in some cases it's players, who should be blamed. Simply because devs keep making bad game exactly because many players still buy it. It's common problem. Devs do only what they allowed to do by players.

Bad changes are actually very easy to track. MOP introduced exceeding FOMO via it's dailies and exceeding competition via it's claustrophobic isles. WOD was abandoned after Beta and lacked content, because Bobby wanted 1yr production cycle and smartphone content in his game. Legion introduced borrowed powers, exceeding time-gating and RNG-gating. BFA was Legion 2.0, that lacked fun things, but introduced exceeding competition via it's pro-PVP theme. SL is about "Visual choice should be tied to power choice" and "Classic is successful, so let's force hardcore sandbox locations on our players" misconceptions.

Overall recent xpacks are about several misconceptions. Such as "MMO should be about so called interaction between players, no matter if this interaction is positive or negative, so let's make our game SUPER-COMPETITIVE". Result? Game is super-toxic instead, because psychological pressure is integral part of any competition.

[wushootaki]

Ion HowMuchItCostUsARaidTier pushed for ultra competitiveness, not us.

Bruh...

It's Ion Hasitcostus a raid tier --- his last name is literally Hazzikostas

[Rad1um]

its my thread lol kind of my job to reply when i see fit.

its public domain lol kind of my job to reply when i see fit.

[rrayy]

Same thing applies to your reasoning. How many actually left for the scandal? We don't know, it's just educated guesses.

I agree though that it's not a single oultlier, but a multitude of factors that brought us to this point.

Of course. People need to stop saying x is why people left. People leave for many reasons.

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Every time i've seen a wow refugee talk in others MMO(ESO, FF14 and GW2) the main argument was how boring and bland wow became and how much fun they have now in their new main MMO and how much they regret not having switched game earlier.
Very rarely the blizzard scandal come as the reasons why they stopped playing wow, it may have pushed them in their decision but it doesn't look like the main culprit.

What about the players who stopped playing all together? or how about those that don't talk in those games? Not everyone who quits go to those games. Cherry picking a small sample size that you heard from does not mean the scandal was not one of the main culprits.

[Raidoser]

Of course. People need to stop saying x is why people left. People leave for many reasons.

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What about the players who stopped playing all together? or how about those that don't talk in those games? Not everyone who quits go to those games. Cherry picking a small sample size that you heard from does not mean the scandal was not one of the main culprits.

Have you seen proof more people stopped wow because of the scandal instead of the gameplay ?

Edit to clarify : It's a true question just in case, i can understand your point, Human tend to be blinded by their perception of (their) world.

[klaps_05]

Technically it is, because they decided to listen to the whims of ppl instead of making the game in their own image. Then their demographics started changing over time and thats how we ended up here. If blizzard actually did what they did in the past - not give a fuck about complainers and do games as they wish on their own plan, they wouldnt have majority of the portfolio dead.

[kamuimac]

I have played World of Warcraft since 2005 on my older brothers account. And right from the get go I was hooked. Once Burning crusade hit I was finally allowed to have my own account. Thats where i made my first character. a Warrior. Now i wasnt very good but i did fall in love with the world and loved having the time to play without sharing an account with my brother. Fast forward to Wrath of the Lich King. This is where I began my WoW addiction. I played non stop. I countinued playing through every expansion that Blizzard put out only taking occasional breaks on some expansions that werent really great in my opinion (Cataclysm and BFA come to mind.) But through all of these expansions i have noticed something, that World of Warcraft was changing and becoming worse and worse. Now most of you (according to these forums) believe that Blizzard is at fault, and to some degree i agree with you. But not for the reasons you may think.

The worst part about world of warcraft is the player base. I know hot take right? But think about it. You all are to blame for everything thats wrong with the game to date. You wanted everything to be "Balanced" you wanted everything to be "Ultra Competitive" and look...you got it. The game used to be about exploring the world and diving into the lore. Taking your time while you quest to really get to know the world. Finding friends and building a community. But now all thats become of it is "Level, Min Max with wowhead, blaze through the quickest path" Its sad..like truly depressing. This new expansion is bringing back professions as relevant and bringing a talent tree that seems to give more options and better customization. And what do i see in response? "Who asked for professions? No-one wants profession revamp do more with mythic +. Talent trees are too big, why do i have to make hard choices with my character?" Its like you all want an engaging MMO and then get mad when the mmo is engaging...i dont understand it.

And i know you're already thinking. "If YoU DoNt LiKe AsPeCtS oF ThE GaMe ThEn DoNt PlAy ThAt PaRt." I will never do a mythic dungeon and i don't do raids only for the fact that no-one is decent in them anymore. If you mess up one mechanic you get kicked. But your posts and everything influence Blizzard hence all the changes made through each expansion. But it seems like they are finally going to bring the game back to the fantasy elements of its roots. And im so afraid that all this complaining from people who play this game for the wrong reason are going to make them change their mind. But what do i know.

no sure why you blame whole playerbase when most of wow playerbase is already gone from game since Cata/ MoP era

who are at fault are mythic raiders and streamers. and yes blizzard too for not fireing Ion years ago

somewhere at some point of time decision was made to cater game only to 5% instead tell them to literaly "f..... off" if they are done with game and bored. and since that moment game went into gutter and blizzard dont have balls to revert it. raiding has been always negatively affecting game and it still is.

mythic + are showing perfecly how huge mistake was focusing on big raids instead dungeons. raids shoule be gone from game after wolk and instead game should focus on 5-10 man short 20-30 minutes dungeon content.

imagine if you got 10 man dungeons to do - how fun it woudl be compared to 5 mans.

but no we have to perpetualy waste resources on raids - when we could have been getting 5-6 new dungeons each tier if raiding would be gone from game

[Verdugo]

When you are shilling for a company, always blame the customers for any mistakes, for company is never wrong.

[rrayy]

Have you seen proof more people stopped wow because of the scandal instead of the gameplay ?

Edit to clarify : It's a true question just in case, i can understand your point, Human tend to be blinded by their perception of (their) world.

That was all I was trying to say. I know that their is no proof that the scandal caused a lot of people to stop, but to some degree it was a factor.

[Raidoser]

That was all I was trying to say. I know that their is no proof that the scandal caused a lot of people to stop, but to some degree it was a factor.

If that's how you see the situation then you're certainly not wrong that we don't have any clear evidence of one truth of the other, only time will tell or it will be be forgotten.

[kamuimac]

The problem with WoW is that it's been around for 20 fucking years and every player past and present has an idealized version of the game that they will insist is the only way the game should exist. That's why I can't wait for Classic to inhabit every expansion so people can just fuck off in whatever version of WoW they prefer instead of clogging up these forums with poorly written fanfiction about the "good 'ol days."

it will be impossible if they screw up wolk classic with removal of lfd system and icc buff from game .

same it will be impossible if they remove lfr from cata / mop

classic is pretty much dead - look at the merges they do to tbc classic server . and the announcement about not keeping tbc servers when wolk launches.
project failed and they are wrapping it up .

[potis]

it will be impossible if they screw up wolk classic with removal of lfd system and icc buff from game .

same it will be impossible if they remove lfr from cata / mop

classic is pretty much dead - look at the merges they do to tbc classic server . and the announcement about not keeping tbc servers when wolk launches.
project failed and they are wrapping it up .

How did the project fail if they spent 1% of what they made? Do people seriously think the classic servers were a failure for the company?

I didnt even play and i am the type to mock anyone playing them, but i do know they were very profitable.

[OMGTwitchTV]

Ugh. This is the same type post #10,000 and the fact that you started a new account just to post it, tells me you weren't even confident when you decided to post

This was my assumption as well, so when I skimmed down and saw your post, I was pleased I skipped straight to your TL;DR. Thanks for saving me time

[Dorothyjean]

Blizzard is definitely the problem. Better said, their lack of ambition, creativity and innovation. The game feels stale since Legion because they've done nothing but rest on their former success. Their design approach is basically the same. They have zero, zero ambition to change anything. They're almost as bad as Zenimax with Elder Scrolls Online in that regard. I hope the Microsoft acquisition will change that.

Depends on who you talk too to be honest. I remember when Cataclysm came out... "Cata sucks, Firelands sucks..." and then WoD came out "WoD sucks, this sucks, this raid is boring...". Fast forward to the present and I hear a lot of people who say they miss WoD and how much fun they had, same with Cata.

There are a lot of quiet players in the game who we don't know like what or do what but as an overall as someone who's been playing MMO's since 1997 (don't worry, every time I say this everyone responds negatively like it means nothing) the MMO community, in my eyes, has been getting whinier, spiteful and just overall more rude BUT on the same note the community has also pushed the boundaries of what is possible, come up with amazing feedback which has been utilized and set a new standard for what it means to be a good MMO player.

[khazmodan]

Depends on who you talk too to be honest. I remember when Cataclysm came out... "Cata sucks, Firelands sucks..." and then WoD came out "WoD sucks, this sucks, this raid is boring...". Fast forward to the present and I hear a lot of people who say they miss WoD and how much fun they had, same with Cata.

There are a lot of quiet players in the game who we don't know like what or do what but as an overall as someone who's been playing MMO's since 1997 (don't worry, every time I say this everyone responds negatively like it means nothing) the MMO community, in my eyes, has been getting whinier, spiteful and just overall more rude BUT on the same note the community has also pushed the boundaries of what is possible, come up with amazing feedback which has been utilized and set a new standard for what it means to be a good MMO player.

Only raiders liked WoD... except the leveling, that was pretty good, Firelands had some fun daily quests but Cata overall felt like a bunch of leftover zones with some serious bugs and put out by a tired uninspired team. I do think that there used to be a lot of whiny rude players that were going through a stage of acceptance because there once beloved game of high adventure was becoming a generic time sink. Now there are much less whiny rude players because there are much less players taking the game seriously as entertainment.

As for feedback; there has been some great feedback from players with loads of insight...that has been ignored by people like Ion "Hazznoclue", and most of those that can give great feedback have moved on to other games. In other words; the developers that created the high points for the game are gone and we are left with a Lawyer surrounded by mediocres and a fat old sociopathic CEO that thinks being creative is firing people because they are support staff and those teams will produce better without that support staff...

[Chain Chungus]

The biggest problem is Blizzard's obsession with the monkey's paw. Whatever the players wish for, they have to add some downside that ends up ruining the fun entirely.

Players: "We want a dragon race!"
Blizzard: "Fine, you can have a dragon race. But it can't show any armor, play other classes, or change their mortal disguise to anything but male blood elf or human female."

Take anything they do these days and you can see the monkey's paw in action.

Players: "We want talent trees back!"
Blizzard: "Fine, but you'll actually have less than you have now, not more. It will be impossible to stitch your class back together as it once was."

And so on.

Players: "We want flying from the start!"
Blizzard: "Fine, but it won't work like regular flying. You'll have to earn that back, but it won't ever be as powerful as it used to be ever again."

[Woggmer]

Only raiders liked WoD... except the leveling, that was pretty good, Firelands had some fun daily quests but Cata overall felt like a bunch of leftover zones with some serious bugs and put out by a tired uninspired team. I do think that there used to be a lot of whiny rude players that were going through a stage of acceptance because there once beloved game of high adventure was becoming a generic time sink. Now there are much less whiny rude players because there are much less players taking the game seriously as entertainment.

As for feedback; there has been some great feedback from players with loads of insight...that has been ignored by people like Ion "Hazznoclue", and most of those that can give great feedback have moved on to other games. In other words; the developers that created the high points for the game are gone and we are left with a Lawyer surrounded by mediocres and a fat old sociopathic CEO that thinks being creative is firing people because they are support staff and those teams will produce better without that support staff...

I don't know about Ion Hazzikostas, since it isn't just him alone that could be the problem. Like a month or so ago, a couple other guys announced their departure from the game and it gave people quite a bit of fanfare. Like one guy being the community manager who really had it out for Asmongold and was being toxic to the community on Twitter, without him around, we wouldn't have that one stream with Asmongold and Ion having an interview together. Not to mention the other guy that left who was responsible for the Azerite Armor system and the Shards of Domination stuff.

I'm not suggesting Ion is entirely innocent, I'm just calling into question if he really doesn't like player feedback or if there's someone else at Blizzard who's gatekeeping the feedback to Ion.

[Dorothyjean]

Only raiders liked WoD... except the leveling, that was pretty good, Firelands had some fun daily quests but Cata overall felt like a bunch of leftover zones with some serious bugs and put out by a tired uninspired team. I do think that there used to be a lot of whiny rude players that were going through a stage of acceptance because there once beloved game of high adventure was becoming a generic time sink. Now there are much less whiny rude players because there are much less players taking the game seriously as entertainment.

As for feedback; there has been some great feedback from players with loads of insight...that has been ignored by people like Ion "Hazznoclue", and most of those that can give great feedback have moved on to other games. In other words; the developers that created the high points for the game are gone and we are left with a Lawyer surrounded by mediocres and a fat old sociopathic CEO that thinks being creative is firing people because they are support staff and those teams will produce better without that support staff...

A lot of that first part too is also something I remember seeing a lot in older MMO players where they would lose sight that they are playing a videogame. Knew so many people that would just play an MMO and never quit, never move on and when things changed they would just bitch and moan instead of realizing that they had either outgrown or changed themselves and they needed to try something else.

I get that with the Devs and how they don't listen but people also need to realize that they need their stamps on the game also and sometimes one groups concept of what will be great for the game doesn't sync up with the Devs and their business plans. As for what is happening currently, for myself, I'm on the fence about that... I'm still enjoying the game but then again all I do is raid. I don't do M+, PvP or much of anything else outside of mounts and pets and even then it comes and goes. I currently don't like the whole M+ / Heroic raiding dynamic but that is an unpopular opinion since everyone, their mother, their cousins and their kitchen sinks are doing M+ and outgearing Heroic raids for some odd reason. But what do I know... M+ seems to be massively popular right now and considering I am usually the lone non-M+ guy in all 3 of my guilds my opinion isn't gonna amount to much.

[Johnjohn]

I feel like WoD/Legion there was confusion on Blizzards part as to what made WoW appeal to the masses,

WoD would have been a great expansion had it had more content. But because subs tanked due to no content, Blizzard panicked and decided to have a completely different gameplay philosophy come Legion.

Legion was a great expansion, but not for the reasons Blizzard thinks. They created a very controlled method of progression in Legion that made you feel like you had to log on every day to progress. I hated this about Legion. I loved the content, the artifact weapon and trait system, the lore, everything but forced daily content and endless mythic dungeons.


When BFA came out all the good things I listed above were gone and we got stuck with the overly complicated progression system of Legion. People suddenly saw how grindy and boring it was, not to mention pointless as there is a gear reset every patch now and quit in droves. This continued in Shadowlands.

If Dragonflight is going to be the same old systems then we are going to get the same result. I hope for Blizzards sake they really do intend to trust the player base and take off the controlled grind leash like before Legion.

Just the way I see it at least.