p2w is shit, but whats the alternativ?

[Lochton]

if we look from the companies pov?
bobby cant buy a yacht with integrity.
best option i can think of is an increase in pay to play and sub costs.

I believe this should've been in the Video Games Discussion section?

[Zenfoldor]

i really have my doubts that making a good game alone, can compete with the whaling industry.

edit: what are elden ring bottom line earnings compared to diablo immortal?

They can't, but one does need a good lure to reduce risk and guarantee success. Thank goodness not every company has a Diablo IP to lure in the whales, because if they did, that is all that would be made. Beyond all others, Blizzard game launches are social experiences. This plays perfectly into a mobile game, cash grab or not.

Ironically though, maybe another big lure would be Elden Ring, so that Elden Ring example isn't ideal for my comment, lol. Let's hope they don't make Elden Ring mobile next, that would be a great lure.

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Welcome to modern capitalism, sadly. It isn't enough. Growth growth growth growth growth. Profits are irrelevant.

Yes, there is no enough. There is either leaving money on the table or not.

[Tronski]

if we look from the companies pov?
bobby cant buy a yacht with integrity.
best option i can think of is an increase in pay to play and sub costs.

Increased pay and sub is better, provided you deliver an experience that justifies it. Microtransactions for cosmetics is fine.

The predatory microtransaction models only hurts the company in the long run, now Blizzard is gonna lose a lot of goodwill and players over their new approach. Diablo 4 is gonna suffer because of Diablo Immoral.

Add to that that the microtransaction generations are soon getting kids of their own, and they are gonna make sure their kids doesn't spend thousands on casino-games instead of just buying them $60 AAA games.

And then we have almost every country in the western world working on regulations to combat the impact of these predatory games.

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I don't mind the p2w aspect. Doesn't hurt me as I don't usually participate in content where that's relevant.

But cosmetics and convenience is something that's fine I suppose. Pay for more bagspace, teleports, faster traveling, and such. Stuff that doesn't equal powergain.

It still usually hurts you indirectly when it hurts other players directly.
It could also mean some things that should have been a base is only available to the payers.

But that's also how it is with free games. They are after all, free. Stop playing them and buy games instead.

[Shadowferal]

I must have missed something. Why is this being talked about?

[Lodreh]

I don't mind the p2w aspect. Doesn't hurt me as I don't usually participate in content where that's relevant.

But cosmetics and convenience is something that's fine I suppose. Pay for more bagspace, teleports, faster traveling, and such. Stuff that doesn't equal powergain.

Quality of Life gains should be earned in game as much as player Power and Agency. One could argue that customization through cosmetics adds to player agency so it's still a slippery slope. However, I hold that player agency is more in body customizations more so than clothing options.

[SinR]

PoE is the perfect example of Microtransactions done RIGHT.

You're buying stash tabs or cosmetics. They carry over from this league to the next and forever.

[Swnem]

The alternative is simple. Make a good game that you buy. You know... like the other normal games we can buy.
Not a cynical psychological scam meant to manipulate you out of your money.

[Schizoide]

PoE is the perfect example of Microtransactions done RIGHT.

Totally. There are tons of F2P games that aren't P2W. Diablo: Immoral could simply sell the mid-tier season pass and cosmetics, and then it would be perfectly fine, no P2W.

In the mobile gaming world purchase priced games simply don't do well. If Blizzard sold D:I for $49.99 with no microtransactions at all they'd lose their shirts on mobile. It must be F2P to truly be successful. But not necessarily P2W.

[Kralljin]

they're a company. of course they want their bottom line to be as high as possible. what, should they just neglect their bottom line and let it drop really, really low? then we get even shittier games and they make even more f2p mobile shit because they can't afford to make decent games anymore.

Sorry but i'm not going to engage any further with a person that argues in bad faith, because nobody who should be taken serious believes that Blizzard should produce games pro bono, nor did i at any point imply they should do this.

There is a mile of difference between predatory P2W tactics and generating revenue.

[StillMcfuu]

An up front cost, plus permanent in-game purchases and perm convenience items.

[ParanoiD84]

Cosmetics only, people love skins and skins sell.

[Recovery]

you can't really compare the two. Elden Ring is a game you pay for and play. Diablo Immortal is a free to play mobile game with microtransactions. they are completely different things, operating in completely different markets. Honestly, I don't understand the massive backlash that Blizz is getting over the microtransactions, especially from Bellular the king of clickbait (actually I do understand why he is stirring the pot); microtransactions have been in mobile games, especially free to play ones, for at least a decade. anyone who genuinely thought that Diablo Immortal, a F2P game on mobile, would somehow buck the trend in that regard is just fucking stupid as fucking fuck and more naïve than an 18 year old nun. Jesus Christ...

Anyone that doesn't realize that the mass of Diablo Immortal players would be..... Diablo players is "just fucking stupid as fucking fuck" : Anyone that doesn't realize how competitive Diablo is and how the average NOT STREAMER competitive Diablo player doesn't want to pay IRL cash to be competitive is "just fucking stupid as fucking fuck".

Anyone that doesn't realize that while most mobile games have microtransactions, most of them are not P2W microtransactions, is, you guessed it: "just fucking stupid as fucking fuck"

I think League of legends as well as fortnite speak for every game in proving that you don't have to put power behind the microtransactions to make the BILLI's!

The first thing I did after doing the introduction on Diablo Immortal? I bought one of the sick skins as well as the tier 2 battle pass. Those purchases had nothing to do with power and everything to do with aesthetics.

[fazaim]

Bagspace, more runs per key, cosmetics, free HS, I don't even know how the game works and not gonna touch it in its current state. Not power or anything that makes it more likely you get power advantage, except for let's say 10% more movement speed in dungeons or similar.

[BeepBoo]

i really have my doubts that making a good game alone, can compete with the whaling industry.

edit: what are elden ring bottom line earnings compared to diablo immortal?

Compete with? Or be successful enough to still not need to care.

There's a difference. People enabling the "chase every last penny" instead of encouraging "make what you love and be content with 'enough' success" is something I want to change. Most industries seem content settling around the ~20% net profit margin. Mobile games can kindly fuck off with their over 100% profit margins. They'll survive. I promise.

[Grimbold21]

I don't mind the p2w aspect. Doesn't hurt me as I don't usually participate in content where that's relevant.

But cosmetics and convenience is something that's fine I suppose. Pay for more bagspace, teleports, faster traveling, and such. Stuff that doesn't equal powergain.

You're arguing that it's okay for gaming companies to design an incovenient game and then later sell you the solution on the side as an extra.

[Daedius]

if we look from the companies pov?
bobby cant buy a yacht with integrity.
best option i can think of is an increase in pay to play and sub costs.

Single player games

[Delekii]

The alternative to p2w is not p2w? What sort of question is this?

The fact that the "old" model can't compete with the new p2w paradigm isn't an excuse to go and start doing it any more than it was right for the bankers who jumped on the subprime mortgage bonds because they stood to make more money from a clearly corrupt practice. Doing the wrong thing because you're "allowed to" doesn't make it not the wrong thing. Every cunt who is designing a pay to win system that aims to fleece as much money as possible from people knows they are doing something immoral and chooses to do it anyway.

[Krewshi]

You would think that a monthly sub would deter companies from making their game p2w
Guess not hehe

[dope_danny]

Its fucking sad people have been mazed so long they have to ask. But not surprising. Companies chasing year over year profits have spent at least 20 years massaging culture so people themselves think in business drone terms and call themselves "consumers" rather than customers shouldn't make the lost art of releasing a finished product you pay a retail price for as shocking as it used to be.

Boy people just got so hoodwinked they don't even remember what the alternatives are anymore.

[Yarathir]

I don't really care. I'm not an investor or ceo.

I care about as little about what profits them most or how they should be able to afford x or y as they clearly do for me.