Poll: Do you think blood elves were stronger than night elves? Who would have won in a war?

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  1. #81
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    The Horde mostly seemed to send the Forsaken and goblins to Darkshore though...and they still killed lots of night elf commanders while doing so, and raising night elf rangers and wardens.
    While there is obviously a notable forsaken and goblin force they aren't even close to being alone in dark shore all of the horde is represented accept for the allied races.

    So it was the night elf's and the worgen against the full might of the horde (-allied races) as well as the night elf's sending troops to Zandalar and they still came out on top and beat the horde.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2022-06-11 at 11:05 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    While there is obviously a notable forsaken and goblin force they aren't even close to being alone in dark shore all of the horde is represented accept for the allied races.



    So it was the night elf's and the worgen against the full might of the horde (-allied races) as well as the night elf's sending troops to Zandalar and they still came out on top and beat the horde.
    Well, the Alliance adventurers also helped them, weren't the night elves based from Boralus during the Battle for Darkshore?
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  3. #83
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    Well, the Alliance adventurers also helped them, weren't the night elves based from Boralus during the Battle for Darkshore?
    The alliance adventurer's do help but Given the wild and loose nature of adventurer lore we don't have any way to tell if the one's involved are all canonically Worgen/night elf's who went awol with the rest or what.

    as for Boralus goes we don't really have any way to know if they are actually based out of it or just use it for the initial launch into dark shore and then don't go back because the two week rotation of warfront's might just be gameplay and there is only one actual instanced battle lore wise and the night elf's could have been in the zone none stop after first setting out from Boralus.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  4. #84
    The High Elfs were completely decimated by the invasion of the Scourge and thus basically all their defenses and magical equipment was canonically ruined (in WC3). Only 10% of all High Elfs survived. Then out of these, many followed Kael'Thas into Outland where they died and even more died on Quel'Danas. So as it stands, there is probably just a very small number of Blood Elfs left lorewise, maybe it's about the same as the Night Elfs or a little bit higher, but not by much I would guess.

    So yeah the Blood Elfs are lore-wise very weak due to all their magic-shenanigans being destroyed beside the Sunwell and by only having small numbers. Furthermore, they are a race that doesn't cope well when magic is not available or left on their own. The Night Elfs are at the very least, a race of people that has trained very well to use the forces of nature.

    I'd say the High Elfs of before the Scourge Invasion would've been stronger than the Night Elfs, but today: no.

    Either way, Humans or Orcs are just 10000x stronger than either of them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    It's useless to use BFA anyway, since there are no numbers or estimations about the NE losses, and that it doesn't make any sense anyway.
    Yeah that's a good point. It's also not quite clear just how much % of the Night Elf population even lived in Teldrassil. Unlike Quel'Thalas, were almost all of the known High Elfs have lived, it's not known how much have lived in Teldrassil. It may have been the home of 90% of all Night Elfs or 5%.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post
    Khadgar,Jaina,Medivh,Kel'Thuzad,Anduin - "Let us introduce ourselfs "; like hello, if anything writers made HUMANS most magically superior race by far, 30y.old Human mages know and do more greater things than any 10 000+y. old Nightborne ever showed to us, only maybe Azshara can be better than Jaina, and this is MAYBE.
    Yeah lore-wise, no other race comes close to the might of the Humans, Orcs and the Draenei (at least before the orcs drank Mannoroth's blood).

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    The High Elfs were completely decimated by the invasion of the Scourge and thus basically all their defenses and magical equipment was canonically ruined (in WC3). Only 10% of all High Elfs survived. Then out of these, many followed Kael'Thas into Outland where they died and even more died on Quel'Danas. So as it stands, there is probably just a very small number of Blood Elfs left lorewise, maybe it's about the same as the Night Elfs or a little bit higher, but not by much I would guess.

    So yeah the Blood Elfs are lore-wise very weak due to all their magic-shenanigans being destroyed beside the Sunwell and by only having small numbers. Furthermore, they are a race that doesn't cope well when magic is not available or left on their own. The Night Elfs are at the very least, a race of people that has trained very well to use the forces of nature.

    I'd say the High Elfs of before the Scourge Invasion would've been stronger than the Night Elfs, but today: no.

    Either way, Humans or Orcs are just 10000x stronger than either of them.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah that's a good point. It's also not quite clear just how much % of the Night Elf population even lived in Teldrassil. Unlike Quel'Thalas, were almost all of the known High Elfs have lived, it's not known how much have lived in Teldrassil. It may have been the home of 90% of all Night Elfs or 5%.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah lore-wise, no other race comes close to the might of the Humans, Orcs and the Draenei (at least before the orcs drank Mannoroth's blood).
    But the blood elves seemed to have focused much more on adaptation and survival in their millennia building Quel'Thalas - for example, the night elves seemed to mostly keep isolated to themselves while the blood elves fought war after war with the Amani trolls. Not to mention half their population (the druids) were still slumbering in the Emerald Dream.
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    Yeah that's a good point. It's also not quite clear just how much % of the Night Elf population even lived in Teldrassil. Unlike Quel'Thalas, were almost all of the known High Elfs have lived, it's not known how much have lived in Teldrassil. It may have been the home of 90% of all Night Elfs or 5%.
    We know that night elves populated most of northern Kalimdor, from Teldrassil, to Darkshore, Ashenvale, parts of Felwood, Moonglade, Hyjal, Winterspring. There are also kaldorei settlements in other parts of Kalimdor, like Stonetalon and Feralas.

    Teldrassil had surely the biggest civilian population and Darnassus as a capital was a centre of important organizations like Priesthood of Elune. It is really unclear how many % night elves lost. We only know that it was severe blow to them...

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    We know that night elves populated most of northern Kalimdor, from Teldrassil, to Darkshore, Ashenvale, parts of Felwood, Moonglade, Hyjal, Winterspring. There are also kaldorei settlements in other parts of Kalimdor, like Stonetalon and Feralas.

    Teldrassil had surely the biggest civilian population and Darnassus as a capital was a centre of important organizations like Priesthood of Elune. It is really unclear how many % night elves lost. We only know that it was severe blow to them...
    There were also night elves in the Broken Isles and the Eastern Kingdoms. But I think most of their race was killed at Teldrassil. Of course, the blood elves lost most of their race and still seemed comparable to the trolls and tauren, so I guess it depends on your perspective. I wonder who would win in the present day, as both have suffered genocide.

    The World Tree was more than a city. It was an entire land, home to countless innocents. How many night elves were elsewhere in Azeroth? Far too few. Now, they were all who remained of their people.

    Sylvanas Windrunner had committed genocide.
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  8. #88
    I don't think night elves are interested in killing blood elves as much as they're interested in "killing" forsaken.

  9. #89
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post
    Khadgar,Jaina,Medivh,Kel'Thuzad,Anduin - "Let us introduce ourselfs "; like hello, if anything writers made HUMANS most magically superior race by far, 30y.old Human mages know and do more greater things than any 10 000+y. old Nightborne ever showed to us, only maybe Azshara can be better than Jaina, and this is MAYBE.
    Characters like Medivh and Kel'Thuzad are probably not fair to put on that list.
    - Medivh was a Guardian of Tristfal (i.e.: was empowered by the Council of Tristfal, which includes mages from other races) and had some innate power derived from his possession by a fragment of Sargeras' soul.
    - Kel'Thuzad was taught necromancy by Ner'zhul, who had a direct line to both Zovaal and the Nathrezim. This would be like learning demonology directly from Lucifer, so his mastery over death, to a degree that overshadowed most in the Shadowlands, is forgivable.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I don't think night elves are interested in killing blood elves as much as they're interested in "killing" forsaken.
    The night elves might not have much of a grudge against the blood elves, but the blood elves seem to dislike the night elves for the exile of the quel'dorei. And furthermore, the night elves might associate Sylvanas with Silvermoon and indirectly with the Burning of Teldrassil.
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    The night elves might not have much of a grudge against the blood elves, but the blood elves seem to dislike the night elves for the exile of the quel'dorei. And furthermore, the night elves might associate Sylvanas with Silvermoon and indirectly with the Burning of Teldrassil.
    Remove the "might". Of course they will be associated with the Burning of Teldrassil. Silvermoon was part of the Horde and even sent forces (like Lorash and at least one soldier seen in an artwork) to aid the Horde allies in the War of Thorns. Silvermoon, like the rest of the Horde, are all responsible for the genocide of Teldrassil, and thus they would be despised by the Night elves for the horrible war crime they committed.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Remove the "might". Of course they will be associated with the Burning of Teldrassil. Silvermoon was part of the Horde and even sent forces (like Lorash and at least one soldier seen in an artwork) to aid the Horde allies in the War of Thorns. Silvermoon, like the rest of the Horde, are all responsible for the genocide of Teldrassil, and thus they would be despised by the Night elves for the horrible war crime they committed.
    Don't they understand though? There were no Horde forces, not even the Horde player participated. It was all illusions by mean ol' Sylvie, the Horde was busy arranging flowers at the time.

    Yes, the Horde has never done anything at all, they're such passive folks. It was only Blackhand/Gul'Dan/Doomhammer/Garrosh/Lich Queen that did anything.

    Blizz keeps pushing that "one person did it all" crap to justify the Horde's continued existence due to gameplay, but the truly sad part is that Horde fans actually believe and parrot it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Don't they understand though? There were no Horde forces, not even the Horde player participated. It was all illusions by mean ol' Sylvie, the Horde was busy arranging flowers at the time.

    Yes, the Horde has never done anything at all, they're such passive folks. It was only Blackhand/Gul'Dan/Doomhammer/Garrosh/Lich Queen that did anything.

    Blizz keeps pushing that "one person did it all" crap to justify the Horde's continued existence due to gameplay, but the truly sad part is that Horde fans actually believe and parrot it.
    Conversely, they will blame the entire Alliance for what one person did. I am thinking of Daelin and Garithos right now (Daelin was 100% justified in his beliefs btw).

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Remove the "might". Of course they will be associated with the Burning of Teldrassil. Silvermoon was part of the Horde and even sent forces (like Lorash and at least one soldier seen in an artwork) to aid the Horde allies in the War of Thorns. Silvermoon, like the rest of the Horde, are all responsible for the genocide of Teldrassil, and thus they would be despised by the Night elves for the horrible war crime they committed.
    Well, what of the void elves? How do you think they reacted to the Burning of Teldrassil? Do they wany anything to do with the blood elves?

    And as for the blood elves vs. night elves...losing most of your race and population can harden and toughen you up, making you much more ruthless and vicious and unpredictable, I mean, even in our real life world and history, there are some examples of that. That is why I think the night elves might understimate the blood elves ("we are older and have greater numbers, etc."), but might conversely find themselves in for a rude awakening when they finally did fight.
    Last edited by OwenBurton; 2022-06-29 at 05:50 PM.
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  15. #95
    Listen this shouldn't even be a discussion. Its another example of incompetent lore writing. The Night Elves were originally the single most powerful of the playable races, and probably could have steamed everyone alone. They had superiority in magic and physical fighting. Their only real adversary would have been the Holy Light before the cosmos retcon (assuming the Light or its adherents decided they were an enemy), or Fel,Necrotic Organized forces.

    The thing is that their leaders are not interested in world conquest, suffer from internal disagreements, and have constant conflict with their very religious allies (such as the offense to nature that was the planting of Teldrassil). This is what kept them in check. Elune is also historically a demanding god, requiring simpler living and sacrifice from a fiercely devoted people. It is because of all of this their full might never was nor should have been realized against the Horde.

    I mean while the Dwarves are fighting trolls, the night elves are battling Legion remnants, organized Naga, the Twilight Cult, all while holding down the Horde advances. There were a few cases of setbacks, such as the death of Cenarius, but the overall trend is clear.

    Then, because its an MMO and Blizzard wanted to make other races more attractive, they started doing stupid lore writes such as making Tyrande PMS all the time, incompetent in war, etc.

    The ONLY and I mean ONLY reason Teldrassil was burned was because Lordaeron. From a logical standpoint, there is no reason for the Teldrassil attack to happen nor be successful. But Blizzard is unhealthily obsessed with balance instead of making things unique, which is why we can't have things like Gnomeregan as a city.
    Last edited by Kent088; 2022-06-29 at 06:13 PM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    Well, what of the void elves? How do you think they reacted to the Burning of Teldrassil? Do they wany anything to do with the blood elves?

    And as for the blood elves vs. night elves...losing most of your race and population can harden and toughen you up, making you much more ruthless and vicious and unpredictable, I mean, even in our real life world and history, there are some examples of that. That is why I think the night elves might understimate the blood elves ("we are older and have greater numbers, etc."), but might conversely find themselves in for a rude awakening when they finally did fight.
    As we know, the Void elves joined the Alliance not out of convenience, but because they truly believe in the ideals of the Alliance. Magister Umbric was very clear about this.

    It's not like the Forsaken who joined the Horde purely out of convenience.

    The Void elves joined the Alliance because they believe it is the "good side" (they are correct btw). So they should not feel guilty about anything. They have always known that the Alliance was the better side, and have always dissociated themselves from the Horde. They have nothing to be ashamed of. They literally, objectively did nothing wrong.

    losing most of your race and population
    Oh, you mean like the Night elves?

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    As we know, the Void elves joined the Alliance not out of convenience, but because they truly believe in the ideals of the Alliance. Magister Umbric was very clear about this.

    It's not like the Forsaken who joined the Horde purely out of convenience.

    The Void elves joined the Alliance because they believe it is the "good side" (they are correct btw). So they should not feel guilty about anything. They have always known that the Alliance was the better side, and have always dissociated themselves from the Horde. They have nothing to be ashamed of. They literally, objectively did nothing wrong.



    Oh, you mean like the Night elves?
    My point was that the blood elves even before joining the Horde seemed to be determined to survive at ALL costs -- their drive to succeed and to dominate others was in fact very formidable, some of them even left their family members because they were so bent on strengthening themselves. In short, they were more than willing to bend or break a hundred rules and laws, moral and societal and even magical, to help themselves grow powerful and make themselves great once again in reversing their "decadence" and restoring Silvermoon to its past greatness and glory.

    Whereas the night elves would I think be much more reserved and meek -- they would try to use restraint while fighting the blood elves, carefully engaging them and holding themselves back, playing by the traditional rules and customs of warfare and civility, trying not to go too far or to violate moral boundaries, less than eager to experiment with new and radical tactics and ideas. And THAT is exactly what might give the blood elves a distinct advantage.

    The blood elves reshaped their entire culture and identity by turning their backs to their quel'dorei heritage - a nation literally rebirthed in blood. The night elves for all their strengths and positive points, have NOT really changed significantly as a people since the Sundering, at least compared to the other elves and other races.
    Last edited by OwenBurton; 2022-06-30 at 07:49 PM.
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    My point was that the blood elves even before joining the Horde seemed to be determined to survive at ALL costs -- their drive to succeed and to dominate others was in fact very formidable, some of them even left their family members because they were so bent on strengthening themselves. In short, they were more than willing to bend or break a hundred rules and laws, moral and societal and even magical, to help themselves grow powerful and make themselves great once again in reversing their "decadence" and restoring Silvermoon to its past greatness and glory.

    Whereas the night elves would I think be much more reserved and meek -- they would try to use restraint while fighting the blood elves, carefully engaging them and holding themselves back, playing by the traditional rules and customs of warfare and civility, trying not to go too far or to violate moral boundaries, less than eager to experiment with new and radical tactics and ideas. And THAT is exactly what might give the blood elves a distinct advantage.

    The blood elves reshaped their entire culture and identity by turning their backs to their quel'dorei heritage - a nation literally rebirthed in blood. The night elves for all their strengths and positive points, have NOT really changed significantly as a people since the Sundering, at least compared to the other elves and other races.
    The problem is that Malfurion is so strong that he can probably solo all of them, like he was doing for weeks in the War of Thorns with his wisp wall that was holding back the entire Horde army.

  19. #99
    Impressive wall


  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    My point was that the blood elves even before joining the Horde seemed to be determined to survive at ALL costs -- their drive to succeed and to dominate others was in fact very formidable, some of them even left their family members because they were so bent on strengthening themselves. In short, they were more than willing to bend or break a hundred rules and laws, moral and societal and even magical, to help themselves grow powerful and make themselves great once again in reversing their "decadence" and restoring Silvermoon to its past greatness and glory.

    Whereas the night elves would I think be much more reserved and meek -- they would try to use restraint while fighting the blood elves, carefully engaging them and holding themselves back, playing by the traditional rules and customs of warfare and civility, trying not to go too far or to violate moral boundaries, less than eager to experiment with new and radical tactics and ideas. And THAT is exactly what might give the blood elves a distinct advantage.

    The blood elves reshaped their entire culture and identity by turning their backs to their quel'dorei heritage - a nation literally rebirthed in blood. The night elves for all their strengths and positive points, have NOT really changed significantly as a people since the Sundering, at least compared to the other elves and other races.
    I really don't think restraint is really something the Night Elves would be known for.

    Blizzard has stated they do total war.

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