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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    The blackjack part is gambling, sure, but blackjack isn't really comparable to boxes.

    If I spend $100 on blackjack I could walk away with $1000 or with $0. If I spend $100 on loot boxes I am 100% guaranteed to receive pixels that have no value.

    Spending money on pixels is not gambling.
    .
    Okay I don’t want to sound too rude here but you’re just wrong. This isn’t a discussion or a debate you’re just wrong.

    Whether or not you disagree, those pixels have value. Depending on the game they can sell for a lot of real life money, some quite literally can be directly traded for real money. And even if it didn’t the value it holds is still very much real even if it’s a game that doesn’t trade items.

    Think of wow for example, there are mounts out there that sell for tens of thousands of dollars if you sell your account.

    Just because you think it’s virtual so it isn’t real so it doesn’t hold value doesn’t make that true. And idc if you disagree you are just straight up wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    I will gladly take the infraction to get out of my chest that if you are not trolling you are the most moronic troglodyte I have ever had the misfortune of encountering in a forum. The fact that more singe celled organisms like you exist in the world greatly saddens me.
    I’m just going to ask becasue I will admit I’m completely ignorant to Diablo immortal because I think mobile games are trash anyway, but how exactly does it have gambling?

    Not saying it doesn’t, I’ve heard a ton of things about it being pay to win, but what system in it has gambling? Is there a system where you buy things to give you a better drop rate or something?

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Why not? As long as the goal is achieved who cares who did it? Asmon will go from the angle of "think of the children" which is usually effective for both sides. If you go to a casino in Vegas, they will not let someone under 18 use the slot machines, but any kid with an iPhone can go spend money with moms credit card to swipe for lootboxes. There needs to he regulation. In fact, most states have banned gambling so people are forced to fly out to Vegas. Why are videogames exempt from gambling laws?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Ditto.

    Who the fuck cares how you do it as long as you do it. It's not this idiotic red vs blue. If fucking Donald Trump makes it happen, I would not mind one bit.

    And in that vid Cruz did show knowledge so it's nothing about cheering right wing or shit like that. If fucking Bernie would speak of it with that level of understanding, I'd be all game for that as well.

    And absolutely that - making it a "think about the children" thing is the way to do it. The only way to fix this shit is through laws and regulations, any other idiotic proposals like "whelp just don't play durr" don't do shit.
    So just to confirm - the government should regulate what content is allowed in video games based on a "think of the children and how they effect their behaviour" argument? Or in other words, Jack Thompson was right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cayde69 View Post
    I’m just going to ask becasue I will admit I’m completely ignorant to Diablo immortal because I think mobile games are trash anyway, but how exactly does it have gambling?

    Not saying it doesn’t, I’ve heard a ton of things about it being pay to win, but what system in it has gambling? Is there a system where you buy things to give you a better drop rate or something?
    You spend money and it gives you a thing and that thing can be used at the start of a Rift (instance type thing) so that you get better random loot.

    In most places this isn't classed as gambling because there isn't a cash prize (or prize that's readily exchangeable for cash) and it sits somewhere below Pokemon/TCG cards and above any other game with randomised loot.

    In Belgium their gambling laws say that the prize can be anything with a perceived value, so if one collection of pixels you can win is "better" than a different collection of pixels you can win they still count it as gambling.

  3. #243
    Scarab Lord Polybius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Well because loot boxes aren't really gambling?

    If I go to a casino and spend $200 there's a very very high chance I walk out with nothing. If I buy $200 worth of loot boxes I'm guaranteed to get something for my money.

    Is it worth it? No, not really. But some people enjoy it and find it fun, so who cares?

    The only people who get hurt by it are people who are unable to control themselves, no reason to regulate anything because of them. If a kid is spending money then that's on the parents, why is mom giving her kid access to a credit card? Why would you even feel sorry for someone that stupid?

    Just let people spend their money how they want, and if it allows companies to make fun games for free that's a plus.
    Raffles and lotteries are still a type of gambling. Difference here is they don’t need to be transparent about how lootboxes work, namely bad luck protections. Gambling is normally regulated to protect against fraud and other crimes.

    You underestimate how easy it is for a kid to have unauthorized use of someone else’s credit card. This was such a big problem with MapleStory in the 2000s. It’s why prepaid cards exist.
    Last edited by Polybius; 2022-06-19 at 07:30 PM. Reason: fuck iphone

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Out of almost 500 million in EU alone. It's just a drop in the ocean really, that's why corps just not release it in NL/Belgium and chug along.

    Until you get into hundreds of millions in the west - EA/Actiblizz/Ubisoft/Gameforge/Whatever - they won't give a fuck. It's a simple numbers game.

    There is this bit just recently, which is actually pretty awesome - it shows that at the very least in US congress there are some people who are at least aware of this shit. So who knows, maybe there will be some regulation there eventually, but I don't hold my breath.



    As a side note the interviewer guy is so fucking cringe, either he trolls or lived in a cave last 2 decades.
    Fair, i'm not holding my breath either, but i'm a realistic pessimist: It could go right too.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    There is this bit just recently, which is actually pretty awesome - it shows that at the very least in US congress there are some people who are at least aware of this shit. So who knows, maybe there will be some regulation there eventually, but I don't hold my breath.
    Wouldn't put my hopes on it, prime reason being that if ever any legislative enters the floor, the likes of Kotick already have an army of lobbyists at the ready to "convince" the representatives / senators why these things aren't an issue.

    He can say that shit now because it basically flies under the radar of the mainstream media, but the gaming industry will not have the goverment interfere into their business without them going down with a fight like any other multi billion industry.

    As long as the shit is profitable enough for the gaming industry to fund lobbyists / campaigns to keep it going, i don't expect much unless it becomes a topic that decides elections and unfortunately it's a long shot from it.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    So just to confirm - the government should regulate what content is allowed in video games based on a "think of the children and how they effect their behaviour" argument? Or in other words, Jack Thompson was right?
    The government should regulate Loot Boxes in the same way it regulates gambling, instead of this complete Wild West going on there now. I'll take that hit to my freedumbz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Wouldn't put my hopes on it, prime reason being that if ever any legislative enters the floor, the likes of Kotick already have an army of lobbyists at the ready to "convince" the representatives / senators why these things aren't an issue.

    He can say that shit now because it basically flies under the radar of the mainstream media, but the gaming industry will not have the goverment interfere into their business without them going down with a fight like any other multi billion industry.

    As long as the shit is profitable enough for the gaming industry to fund lobbyists / campaigns to keep it going, i don't expect much unless it becomes a topic that decides elections and unfortunately it's a long shot from it.
    Abso-fucking-lutely, that's why like reply before I said I'm not holding my breath.

    I know full well said corporations can just toss $$ at it one way or another and stall it forever. That's why in US, despite it being a superpower, you have eyebrows rising deficiencies in various social benefits that are a given in any other normal 1st world country.

    It was merely just nice to see someone there who at least is not a complete digital ignoramus like those idiots who interviewed Zuckerberg. But still I don't expect shit there - Bobby and Andrew will shoot it all down with their little army of congress goblins.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    That's a lie you were ingrained to believe. You never actually experienced any freedom.
    Or you haven't. A completely ''free world'' is nothing more than a world where exploiting others is the norm.

  8. #248
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Or you haven't. A completely ''free world'' is nothing more than a world where exploiting others is the norm.
    What do you mean by "free world" and "exploiting others"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    The government should regulate Loot Boxes in the same way it regulates gambling, instead of this complete Wild West going on there now. I'll take that hit to my freedumbz.
    You can take that hit to your freedumbz right now - stop playing games with lootboxes if you think it's gambling (it's not), and that gambling is wrong (it's not, it's perfectly ok to gamble).
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post

    Blizzard should get:
    1. Freedom to earn money the way they want
    Then why did you waste time typing hundreds of posts whining about Blizzard removing flying from WoW?
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    At no point have I claimed people weren't getting gold from the token or that gold can not be used to acquire power.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    p2w is not inherently unfair.

  10. #250
    On topic, the streamer in question finally got a 5-star after 22k NZD, roughly 15k USD. Then deleted their character and uninstalled while flipping off blizzard, calling it a shit game. and encouraging everyone watching to uninstall too.
    (This signature was clearly too awesome for the Avatar & Signature Guidelines and was removed to prevent further facemelting)

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerot View Post
    On topic, the streamer in question finally got a 5-star after 22k NZD, roughly 15k USD. Then deleted their character and uninstalled while flipping off blizzard, calling it a shit game. and encouraging everyone watching to uninstall too.
    That’s my take away from this whole thing, these streamers are spending an assload of money just to show you how bullshit it is. If anyone is influenced by this behavior to spend that amount of money, they were goin to spend it anyway. We all know they were going to quit this game and never touch it again after a short time. I’m glad they highlighted how fucking stupid that shit is.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerot View Post
    On topic, the streamer in question finally got a 5-star after 22k NZD, roughly 15k USD. Then deleted their character and uninstalled while flipping off blizzard, calling it a shit game. and encouraging everyone watching to uninstall too.
    So a fucking idiot gave Blizzard a shit ton of his money, showed pointless outrage and further reinforced the fact the microtransactions are profitable. He's not alone either, there are tons of streamers who have been dumping thousands of dollars "ironically" into the game to teach Blizzard a lesson. Because you know, Blizzard puts the millions of dollars streamers spend to teach them a lesson into a different pile from the millions people spend because they just want to. The only thing these dumbfucks are doing is delaying any chance of Blizzard toning the P2W down.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by sensei View Post
    So a fucking idiot gave Blizzard a shit ton of his money, showed pointless outrage and further reinforced the fact the microtransactions are profitable. He's not alone either, there are tons of streamers who have been dumping thousands of dollars "ironically" into the game to teach Blizzard a lesson. Because you know, Blizzard puts the millions of dollars streamers spend to teach them a lesson into a different pile from the millions people spend because they just want to. The only thing these dumbfucks are doing is delaying any chance of Blizzard toning the P2W down.
    Yeah this “dumbfuck” spent money, that he is able to right off on his taxes, that got him a ton of recognition and viewers, which also lead to money from donos and ads on his channel, all while probably coming out ahead on this whole thing.

    And you’re sitting in here on a forum calling HIM the dumb fuck for making more money in a month than you probably do in a year while playing video games.

    Yeah he’s the dumb fuck

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by sensei View Post
    So a fucking idiot gave Blizzard a shit ton of his money, showed pointless outrage and further reinforced the fact the microtransactions are profitable. He's not alone either, there are tons of streamers who have been dumping thousands of dollars "ironically" into the game to teach Blizzard a lesson. Because you know, Blizzard puts the millions of dollars streamers spend to teach them a lesson into a different pile from the millions people spend because they just want to. The only thing these dumbfucks are doing is delaying any chance of Blizzard toning the P2W down.
    While the dumb people (and there are plenty) will see streamers pour in money and think they should do the same, these videos are rather educational for the smarter people, to get a glimpse of what they're getting into and walk away.
    Even if those streamers give Blizzard a few hundred thousand, that's just pocket changed compared to what they're actually cashing in from it.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Cayde69 View Post
    Yeah this “dumbfuck” spent money, that he is able to right off on his taxes, that got him a ton of recognition and viewers, which also lead to money from donos and ads on his channel, all while probably coming out ahead on this whole thing.

    And you’re sitting in here on a forum calling HIM the dumb fuck for making more money in a month than you probably do in a year while playing video games.

    Yeah he’s the dumb fuck
    And here you are arguing with me about him not in fact being a dumbfuck, but just a worthless asshole exploiting his viewers while at the same time making the situation worse. Congratulations, where should I mail your medal?

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by pinkz View Post
    saw numerous headlines on $10000 here is one link

    https://gamerant.com/diablo-immortal...ive-star-gems/

    imagine raging how stupid blizzard is concerning DI
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5J_KQZrqUo

    listen carefully at beginning about how he spent money
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7mY3LdDNP0

    claims for content, used same tactic in Lost Ark, recently admitted he cheated also offline with DI
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTmdHu6cSnk

    acting or not, then at times grandstanding on loot boxes. still a good example why these systems work as a 27yo man gets emotional
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEbsaxvWbTo
    So? There's people already past the 100k mark.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by sensei View Post
    And here you are arguing with me about him not in fact being a dumbfuck, but just a worthless asshole exploiting his viewers while at the same time making the situation worse. Congratulations, where should I mail your medal?
    I’m not arguing a thing with you. I was telling you something.

    Also, exploiting his viewers? What? LOL

    Streamer spends his own money.

    Gets money from willing people.

    Specifically tells them NOT to play this game and showcases its predatory systems.

    And that’s exploiting his viewers? Sweetheart, sit down.
    Last edited by Cayde69; 2022-06-20 at 12:32 AM.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by sensei View Post
    So a fucking idiot gave Blizzard a shit ton of his money, showed pointless outrage and further reinforced the fact the microtransactions are profitable. He's not alone either, there are tons of streamers who have been dumping thousands of dollars "ironically" into the game to teach Blizzard a lesson. Because you know, Blizzard puts the millions of dollars streamers spend to teach them a lesson into a different pile from the millions people spend because they just want to. The only thing these dumbfucks are doing is delaying any chance of Blizzard toning the P2W down.
    Or these streamers are generating a buzz to make these types of mtx illegal. Netherlands and Belgium have already determined diablo immortal is illegal. Hopefully more countries follow. I want the gaming industry to get their ass destroyed for what they have done to video games in the last 10-15 years. What could have been amazing games were ruined by greed.

    Whatever method can make MTX illegal i don't care. Just make videogames great again. Elden ring proved it is still possible.
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2022-06-20 at 12:35 AM.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Or these streamers are generating a buzz to make these types of mtx illegal. Netherlands and Belgium have already determined diablo immortal is illegal. Hopefully more countries follow. I want the gaming industry to get their ass destroyed for what they have done to video games in the last 10-15 years. What could have been amazing games were ruined by greed.
    That would be the best possible outcome for this tbh. Hopefully for countries on the EU follow through and the biggest one (which I’m not sure how their laws work but I know they are cracking down in different ways) is if China came through and said fuck this, that would be MASSIVE for us. This shit needs to be extinct

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Or these streamers are generating a buzz to make these types of mtx illegal. Netherlands and Belgium have already determined diablo immortal is illegal. Hopefully more countries follow. I want the gaming industry to get their ass destroyed for destroying video games with this p2w bullshit.
    Though to be fair and transparent, they're not banning them because they're p2w. If the system was all about cosmetics only they'd still ban it - they only care about how the acquisition process works, not whether the result is in-game power or in-game prestige.

    I agree that p2w is pretty shitty, but it's not the problem governments have with such games.

    I'm not sure what aside from regulation we should do about disincentivizing pw2 designs - besides the obvious vote-with-your-wallet approach, of course. Raise awareness? Raise protest? Nothing seems particularly effective, as it seems a lot of people ARE in fact fine with p2w existing. How much of that is genuine approval and how much is jaded apathy and/or willful ignorance, who can say.

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