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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    You say this like we don't have numerous examples EVEN WITHIN THE LAST FEW YEARS of social pressure and outrage causing companies to change their shit... like... cmon...

    It's clear that social pressure and discourse can sometimes change enough peoples' minds or draw enough attention to an issue that something is done.

    "Hurr durr, guess we all just have to sit back and take whatever comes our way!" No. We don't. Yes, we can change it.
    Sure, there are.
    The EA debacle was a big one a few years back.
    Is this on the same level as that? Or any others for that matter?
    Have companies slowed down on the MTX model design because of it?
    Have streamers slowed down on showing this stuff?

    Some things can change, sure, on a smaller scale.
    A company here and there may say "you know what, we will listen to feedback and criticism".
    A streamer here and there may take a hard stance and give up on the model.
    On a larger scale, though, I just don't see the MTX model going away, the streamer model of people who watch others play (and pay to do so), and things like this will continue.
    It would be cool if that's wrong, but no evidence supports it on a big enough scale.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by qwikz View Post
    Is this how traditional gaming dies? There is no way other game companies arent looking at lost ark and this game and not noticing the obscene amount of money streamers spend on these games for "content". This is way past whaling, why spend millions on a traditional game when you can make low budget garbage with gambling mechanics and have streamers pay you for advertising it pulling in more gambling addicts.
    Fast food didn't wipe out all traditional restaurants pumping out slop to people with insane markups.

    P2W won't either. It might be a very successful subset of the market currently but that can only change as consumer culture does.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Jujudrood View Post
    Have companies slowed down on the MTX model design because of it?
    No, because it's still relatively new and they REALLY want it to succeed, so of course they're going to continue to push it super hard even after a few failed attempts.

    Some things can change, sure, on a smaller scale.
    No, larger things can change, too, you just have to have a mindset of constant vigilance against it. See: women's rights and roe vs wade. We had a solid 50 years of change there, but we let up for like 10 seconds and now it's in question again. Change isn't hardly ever permanent, and assholes are always gonna try to slip it in when they can.

    It would be cool if that's wrong, but no evidence supports it on a big enough scale.
    Like I said, it takes a culture shift to intolerance and constant vigilance. We can do that, though.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Community gets:
    1. Freedom to play the game they want

    Blizzard should get:
    1. Freedom to earn money the way they want
    Lemme guess,you also think pharmaceuticals companies should be alowed to price gouge life saving medicine at 80.000% profit rates?

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    C'mon mate I know several high school dropouts, they all can spot a scam from a mile away and know that rich fucks are devoid of ethics. Boot-licking that hard is independent of education.

    But you are right, I went along with the trolling for too long.
    Depends if they learned alone after dropping out. In my experience those that didn’t are gullible, especially to corpo.

  6. #106
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    Lemme guess,you also think pharmaceuticals companies should be alowed to price gouge life saving medicine at 80.000% profit rates?
    They definitely should be. Since you are not entitled to the medicine they produce. In a free world that is. Nice emotional try though.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    They definitely should be. Since you are not entitled to the medicine they produce. In a free world that is. Nice emotional try though.
    Ofc in that reality, people should be able to copy their formula and produce it and sell it cheaply too.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    They definitely should be. Since you are not entitled to the medicine they produce. In a free world that is. Nice emotional try though.
    In a free world, they also don't hold a patent.

    You can't have some freedoms but curtail others, and then claim it's "a free world" like that is an absolute.

    The reality is nothing is a completely free world, there's always restrictions on total freedom. It's only a matter of negotiating where they are. To ignore that selectively is major hypocrisy.

  9. #109
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Ofc in that reality, people should be able to copy their formula and produce it and sell it cheaply too.
    Obviously. patent system is predatory.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    In a free world, they also don't hold a patent.
    That's why free world is better. But you don't get there by MORE regulations
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    That's why free world is better. But you don't get there by MORE regulations
    Because a totally free world is nightmarish.

    That's what I mean by selectively ignoring that some freedoms are always curtailed.

    We do this for a reason: limiting some freedoms for some people to increase other freedoms for other people, aiming to have a world that (at least asymptotically and in principle) brings the most well-being to the most people. For that, some freedoms must be curtailed.

    That we can't just have total freedom is really not up for debate. It's all about where we draw the lines and why.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    No, because it's still relatively new and they REALLY want it to succeed, so of course they're going to continue to push it super hard even after a few failed attempts.
    MTX has been around for 16 years now(Oblivion Horse Armor came out 2006), it's not new at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    i find it hard to believe some random raid from BFA would draw in more players than the battleground patch in classic
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    FruitySalad boy, this is a fantastic thread and is really going places. I just want to make sure I'm on page one of what is bound to be a long lasting and productive thread. It's amazing there are no other threads discussing the squish, as I'm confident you would have just posted in them if they did exist.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    And people wonder why MTX is still in games... because of views.

    "I spend money so you don't have too" is code for. "I spend some of the money you give me, so give me more money".
    Can´t blame them for that tho.
    Might as well value your own time and play the game yourself, instead of watching someone playing it and throw money at them (not pointing at you here btw :-) ). It is the definition of stupidity really.

    Lots of people seem uncapable of living their own life, so they rely on people streaming stuff. This is not always necesarily stupidity but a mental health issue, which is no joke tho and a different matter. The first ones, however, are plain irrational but hey, people can use their time and money as they please...

    The streamers are just smart enough to do this and get some sort of profit out of it.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Stickiler View Post
    MTX has been around for 16 years now(Oblivion Horse Armor came out 2006), it's not new at all.
    MTX isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about F2P backed by gacha p2w. A specific subset of MTX, and the one that currently seems to print the most money.

  14. #114
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Because a totally free world is nightmarish.
    That's a lie you were ingrained to believe. You never actually experienced any freedom.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Paying streamers for streaming a game - Super OK
    Paying the game devs for developing the game - Totes UNOK.
    This is actually an interesting point no one ever really criticises (except for "booba" streamers sometimes), especially just how much money some people spend just to get some attention from their favorite streamers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    Lemme guess,you also think pharmaceuticals companies should be alowed to price gouge life saving medicine at 80.000% profit rates?
    Oh yeah, this is absolutely a valid and fair comparison. What example are you going to bring up next time when talking about p2w in gaming, Hitler?

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwikz View Post
    Is this how traditional gaming dies? There is no way other game companies arent looking at lost ark and this game and not noticing the obscene amount of money streamers spend on these games for "content". This is way past whaling, why spend millions on a traditional game when you can make low budget garbage with gambling mechanics and have streamers pay you for advertising it pulling in more gambling addicts.

    I’m shocked that some people talk like these things are new in games.

    The first Game i did P2W in was neverwinter back in like 2013.

    Awsome signature and avatar made by Kuragalolz

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by gobarj View Post
    It's hilarious seeing people donate with messages telling streamers NOT to spend money on P2W stuff... not realising this is all a return/investment strategy to get even more viewers / profit. How dense are people? These streamers aren't losing money, they're making money thanks to you.

    This is the price of content that gets people addicted (though maybe not so much in this case), we used to have tons of CSGO streamers which never really played the game but ONLY bought keys to open cases. Remember the scammer phantomL0rd? all he did was open cases in CSGO too... same thing what's going on here.

    The real people losing money are those that spend money and don't get anything in return (unlike these streamers). Anyways, keep donating telling them to stop spending money on P2W when you are providing them with money to do so in the first place!
    Nothing against Quin in this case, but it's funny how there are other Streamers and YouTubers who earn millions by "exploiting" their watchers. Meanwhile those same people call Diablo Immortal's p2w system "predatory".

    Not that I think that DI's monetization is any good, I really really hate the p2w and wish it wasn't the case for an otherwise good game, but it's really funny sometimes just how hypocritical many people are.

    And it's not just streamers, but it's also some games too. Like where do you draw the line when a p2w game is good or isn't? For example, why do are so many people fine with Genshin Impact and Lost Ark, but not Diablo Immortal? To me it just seems like most of the hate comes from people seeking attention and nothing more. If DI's announcement timing wasn't this terrible, like if they initially announced this game at Blizzcon beside Diablo 4 as a "secondary" game, then I am sure we wouldn't see this much hate against it today. I mean even Hearthstone is a heavily P2W game and it's liked and played by many streamers.
    Last edited by RobertMugabe; 2022-06-10 at 08:29 AM.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Obviously. patent system is predatory.

    - - - Updated - - -


    That's why free world is better. But you don't get there by MORE regulations
    In a free world the one who is most ruthless and has the most weapons decides what is allowed and then it's not so free any more.

  19. #119
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lathspell View Post
    In a free world the one who is most ruthless and has the most weapons decides what is allowed and then it's not so free any more.
    Another lie. You are confusing anarchy with freedom. You won't be able to explain in what way a ruthless person can get the most weapons in a FREE world, and more importantly why. You will have to use current examples of such people - but they are not a product of a free world.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  20. #120
    everyone complaining about how greedy gaming is getting and then this dumb fuck shows up. what a piece of shit making the industry a shittier place, for 1 video

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