What if the Horde quests were written like Alliance quests ?

[VladlTutushkin]

I find it sad and also understandable. Anyone I know who cared about the lore feels the fracture and this complete disconnection. Not much have the patience to dive into the bullshit to find some pearls of fun anymore.

I am mostly baffled by the inability to move on and the pugnacity of the disgruntled players and ex-players when it comes to tear each other down. But also by how much of a personal level people take the story's events.

Because in a way WoW was Blizz peak “immersion” game. I dont know about US but in Russia you would know Illidan and Thrall as soon as you got into school PC and booted Warcraft 3, you couldnt find a machine without Warcraft hidden somewhere in the files between porn folder and homework.

Then WoW came out and it was basically all the rush, cause before that we scarcely had good MMOs here. Plus again it rode on the back of Dota and Warcraft being super popular amongst younger generation.

And of course lore of the game, “the feel” and etc created a ton of “superfans” or just people who really were into it.

After all between chugging a beer in the dark with the gopniks you could chug beer in your room while raiding or PvPing and Northrend seems like a cheery place compared to the usual 10x10 concrete house block.

Basically a lot of people used WoW to cope with sheer misery of our modern life of endless and pointless work and “keeping on keeping on”.

Now imagine how it feels when the game turns from escapism into… hmmm… anti-escapism? Depressivism? Whatever, you got the idea. It really leaves a mark.

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and where exactly can horde defile ur city temp even? where is the equal to SoO on horde side? no matter how u twist it, u at least actually can do that
or u crying over deathwing destruction during cata that already got removed?
didn't know u lvl a new toon weekly, u know, like exactly what thousands do weekly farming old raids for items and transmog, heck u can literally do them once on a character while u can defile our capital as much as ur heart content every single week for rest of wow history
did u really compare a weekly activity with literally a single time use activity (quest)? do u even know what was cata biggest problem when it was released?
Again what capital? Gallywix villa is a capital? the quest zone hub in Azshara? doesn't that turn many quest hub zones to 'capitals' like draenei HD spaceship etc
If u count that as capital then i really don't know how many 'capitals' exist in wow, for either sides, at least count a capital when it has a bank and portals, like Boralus/Zul'Dazar (which btw, was also raided too!)
Or do u count we dare to harm Jaina equal to flat out killing one of biggest troll figures in warcraft history by your hands?
And in end you won, period, u get to enjoy weekly while we at most get some quests that u totally skip since ages (does anyone even lvl in cata zones with the far better WoD zones? fastest lvl exp, not to mention quest quality-wise BFA zones are honestly amazing, I loved them even as alliance, only drawback alliance zones didn't feel connected, I loved Boralus)

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the only next step left is to literally delete horde
remind me last time horde won anything, or even kept a leader, heck our ex-warchief wiped on trash while ur high king needed a world boss raid and still won

Vol’jin got assassinated by the Jailer who cut off his power to get him killed.

And Horde kept everything they took during Cata, while Alliance signed Azshara off to them entirely.

And you “win” by “losing” when you win all the battles but devs say that Alliance “won” but then they offer you concessions because thats what victors do, totally.

Basically you win in the beginning, middle and the end, but in the last moment Blizz reassure Alliance that they “totally had it” but when it comes to the spoils of war only Horde gets a cut.

[DatToffer]

Because in a way WoW was Blizz peak “immersion” game. I dont know about US but in Russia you would know Illidan and Thrall as soon as you got into school PC and booted Warcraft 3, you couldnt find a machine without Warcraft hidden somewhere in the files between porn folder and homework.

Then WoW came out and it was basically all the rush, cause before that we scarcely had good MMOs here. Plus again it rode on the back of Dota and Warcraft being super popular amongst younger generation.

And of course lore of the game, “the feel” and etc created a ton of “superfans” or just people who really were into it.

After all between chugging a beer in the dark with the gopniks you could chug beer in your room while raiding or PvPing and Northrend seems like a cheery place compared to the usual 10x10 concrete house block.

Basically a lot of people used WoW to cope with sheer misery of our modern life of endless and pointless work and “keeping on keeping on”.

Now imagine how it feels when the game turns from escapism into… hmmm… anti-escapism? Depressivism? Whatever, you got the idea. It really leaves a mark.

It sure does leave a bitter mark. I do enjoy the escapism, but to speak for myself, I manage. The lore of Warcraft is huge, my interest can switch to something that is old and afar from what has been ruined. And as for the ridiculous turns of the lore, the failures of the writing, I mostly laugh it off, take whatever I'm interested in and explore that.

Friends I know found more satisfaction in other MMO, such as FF14 or GW2. But I'm too lazy to learn the lore of another universe and didn't scratch all my itches in wow so I remain.

[VladlTutushkin]

It sure does leave a bitter mark. I do enjoy the escapism, but to speak for myself, I manage. The lore of Warcraft is huge, my interest can switch to something that is old and afar from what has been ruined. And as for the ridiculous turns of the lore, the failures of the writing, I mostly laugh it off, take whatever I'm interested in and explore that.

Friends I know found more satisfaction in other MMO, such as FF14 or GW2. But I'm too lazy to learn the lore of another universe and didn't scratch all my itches in wow so I remain.

I mean i play GW2 ever since i left WoW and i love it as much as i did WoW but one good thing does not really cover previous one. Also Blizz continuously mutilating the parts of WoW i especially cared about does not help.

[DatToffer]

I mean i play GW2 ever since i left WoW and i love it as much as i did WoW but one good thing does not really cover previous one. Also Blizz continuously mutilating the parts of WoW i especially cared about does not help.

I don't think you'll ever really forget wow, but as you continue making good new memories on the other games you play, it might get easier to handle all the shit going on !

[VladlTutushkin]

I don't think you'll ever really forget wow, but as you continue making good new memories on the other games you play, it might get easier to handle all the shit going on !

Also i want to say that without constant sarcasm and etc this conversation feels far more productive and enjoyable.

Although i doubt that talking normally is possible with Grazrug aka Erevien and etc.

[DatToffer]

Also i want to say that without constant sarcasm and etc this conversation feels far more productive and enjoyable.

Although i doubt that talking normally is possible with Grazrug aka Erevien and etc.

Oh you know, once we put away the Horde vs Alliance squabble, we all can find the common ground of being angry at how the new writing ruined our nostalgia.

And I must say, it was fun for the first pages to push the concept of writing the factions as one another. It does put things in perspective.

[sam86]

Vol’jin got assassinated by the Jailer who cut off his power to get him killed.

And Horde kept everything they took during Cata, while Alliance signed Azshara off to them entirely.

And you “win” by “losing” when you win all the battles but devs say that Alliance “won” but then they offer you concessions because thats what victors do, totally.

Basically you win in the beginning, middle and the end, but in the last moment Blizz reassure Alliance that they “totally had it” but when it comes to the spoils of war only Horde gets a cut.

-until next exp where they will shitcon it to make him trash, regardless Varian death still far outshine the afk vol'jin
-now that's flat out trolling or u know little to none about current (shit) lore status, horde lost all lands taken in cata except Azshara, which alliance didn't want in first place (u do know Azshara was ignored by both factions before goblins took it right? no one wanted Azshara)
-surprise yes, overwhelming majority of wow players hate how Sylvannas kicked Bolvar ass in SL launch but we can hate it 24/7 it still is official and she did wipe his ass and struggled more with an orc than the Lich King successor himself (they did that probably to shit on LK name, as most current lore can be summarized with shit on old lore)
-we lost multiple times, turned to raids, lost all leaders that it became a meme, have the beta to end all betas as current de facto leader (i'd hate it even if happened to alliance), but u still count it as win and good
u have ducking spaceship that can wipe out nations whenever u want, they had to ex-machina it out of lore with half assed reason to actually give horde tiny chance to get fucked as usual in war

I do agree with ur 1st paragraph 100%, in fact i consider my happiest time ever is wrath era
I don't 'think', i know i care about wow now far more than blizz staff, for them it is means for living, just salary, for me it is happiness, i pay for it while they do it to get payed, i remember a community manager in blizz (i think he left) who didn't even play wow and ban anyone on twitter if they discuss it

[qwerty123456]

and where exactly can horde defile ur city temp even? where is the equal to SoO on horde side? no matter how u twist it, u at least actually can do that

The Horde nearly burns down Stormwind after infiltrating it in bfa, Raids and takes over Gilneas, Completely obliterates a bunch of cities in Teldrassil including Darnassus the NE Capital, wipes out a ton of cities and settlements on the way to Teldrassil, Manabombed Theramore, Destroyed Southshore, and probably a dozen other things I'm forgetting. What more do you want?

Also SoO was both factions fighting a 3rd party while all of the above (aside from Gilneas which was technically neutral at that point)was the Horde attacking the Alliance.

[VladlTutushkin]

-until next exp where they will shitcon it to make him trash, regardless Varian death still far outshine the afk vol'jin
-now that's flat out trolling or u know little to none about current (shit) lore status, horde lost all lands taken in cata except Azshara, which alliance didn't want in first place (u do know Azshara was ignored by both factions before goblins took it right? no one wanted Azshara)
-surprise yes, overwhelming majority of wow players hate how Sylvannas kicked Bolvar ass in SL launch but we can hate it 24/7 it still is official and she did wipe his ass and struggled more with an orc than the Lich King successor himself (they did that probably to shit on LK name, as most current lore can be summarized with shit on old lore)
-we lost multiple times, turned to raids, lost all leaders that it became a meme, have the beta to end all betas as current de facto leader (i'd hate it even if happened to alliance), but u still count it as win and good
u have ducking spaceship that can wipe out nations whenever u want, they had to ex-machina it out of lore with half assed reason to actually give horde tiny chance to get fucked as usual in war

I do agree with ur 1st paragraph 100%, in fact i consider my happiest time ever is wrath era
I don't 'think', i know i care about wow now far more than blizz staff, for them it is means for living, just salary, for me it is happiness, i pay for it while they do it to get payed, i remember a community manager in blizz (i think he left) who didn't even play wow and ban anyone on twitter if they discuss it

Baine nowhere as "beta" as Anduin. Anduin is so cucked Baine would take lessons from him on that.

Also point still stands - after the war Alliance remains broken, burned and with swathes of our land actually rendered uninhabitable in LORE. Horde remains basically the same as it started as , with whatever land they took and only "loss" is one leader in exile. Plus Sylvanas is not dead yet, give it two expansions and she will be back at it...

[sam86]

The Horde nearly burns down Stormwind after infiltrating it in bfa, Raids and takes over Gilneas, Completely obliterates a bunch of cities in Teldrassil including Darnassus the NE Capital, wipes out a ton of cities and settlements on the way to Teldrassil, Manabombed Theramore, Destroyed Southshore, and probably a dozen other things I'm forgetting. What more do you want?

Also SoO was both factions fighting a 3rd party while all of the above (aside from Gilneas which was technically neutral at that point)was the Horde attacking the Alliance.

so u counting one time scenario? can u name a single one of them that is repeated weekly activity like SoO? The only thing equal is horrific visions from BFA and it had both sides this time, not that a scenario is equal to an end-game raid
As for zones u do know that in order for humans to rise in first place they had to do the only successful genocide in Azeroth so far of wiping out trolls to take their lands in first place, but that's a different story
I'm here saying that the continues event u can do as much as u want is fuck horde not alliance, alliance at most lose lvling quests (that u should skip since WoD is best to lvl so far by exp), lets forget how alliance dominated at quests in many other zones like Legion (Genn won vs Sylv, back when she was still not MORALLY GREY)

Baine nowhere as "beta" as Anduin. Anduin is so cucked Baine would take lessons from him on that.

Also point still stands - after the war Alliance remains broken, burned and with swathes of our land actually rendered uninhabitable in LORE. Horde remains basically the same as it started as , with whatever land they took and only "loss" is one leader in exile. Plus Sylvanas is not dead yet, give it two expansions and she will be back at it...

Well that's first, always heard many ppl both sides hate Baine far more than Anduin, maybe now Anduin is more hated with end of SL and how they treated him
As for lands i'm actually curious what lands horde won and kept exactly, blizz were clear and officially stated alliance WON every war, did whatever they want and took all land they wanted back, if u mean Azshara then u ignored that even classic no side wanted it (until goblin inhabited/industrialized it)

[VladlTutushkin]

so u counting one time scenario? can u name a single one of them that is repeated weekly activity like SoO? The only thing equal is horrific visions from BFA and it had both sides this time, not that a scenario is equal to an end-game raid
As for zones u do know that in order for humans to rise in first place they had to do the only successful genocide in Azeroth so far of wiping out trolls to take their lands in first place, but that's a different story
I'm here saying that the continues event u can do as much as u want is fuck horde not alliance, alliance at most lose lvling quests (that u should skip since WoD is best to lvl so far by exp), lets forget how alliance dominated at quests in many other zones like Legion (Genn won vs Sylv, back when she was still not MORALLY GREY)


Well that's first, always heard many ppl both sides hate Baine far more than Anduin, maybe now Anduin is more hated with end of SL and how they treated him
As for lands i'm actually curious what lands horde won and kept exactly, blizz were clear and officially stated alliance WON every war, did whatever they want and took all land they wanted back, if u mean Azshara then u ignored that even classic no side wanted it (until goblin inhabited/industrialized it)

Alliance lost (as per Fifth War + Cata): Gilneas, Southshore, Hillsbrad in general, Silverwind Refuge, Astranaar, half of Ashenvale in total, all of Stonetalon, Darkshore (uninhabitable due to Blight, impossible to repopulate now), Theramore and all holdings in the surrounding areas. (Only thing they kept was Northwatch), basically everything past Tandol's Span aside from Arathi but even then orcs still remain in the area, seceded Azshara... And list goes on really, i probably forgot a burned down village, genocided town or just a huge load of dead civilians and ruined livelihoods.

Horde lost: Arathi, but they still have outpost there and it was NEVER Horde's land to begin with, not even close, not in a fever dream.

[Feanoro]

can u name a single one of them that is repeated weekly activity like SoO?

Gameplay is not lore, no matter how salty it makes you. In this case, raids happen only once in the story, because otherwise it's nonsense with weekly resets.

Canonically, SoO happened once. Please stop trying to claim it's a weekly event in the lore.

[qwerty123456]

so u counting one time scenario? can u name a single one of them that is repeated weekly activity like SoO? The only thing equal is horrific visions from BFA and it had both sides this time, not that a scenario is equal to an end-game raid
As for zones u do know that in order for humans to rise in first place they had to do the only successful genocide in Azeroth so far of wiping out trolls to take their lands in first place, but that's a different story
I'm here saying that the continues event u can do as much as u want is fuck horde not alliance, alliance at most lose lvling quests (that u should skip since WoD is best to lvl so far by exp), lets forget how alliance dominated at quests in many other zones like Legion (Genn won vs Sylv, back when she was still not MORALLY GREY)

Why does it need to be repeatable and why are you denying content that is repeatable through alts? Do you think the Alliance is running SoO every week jacking off to it as some big victory? And Again the Alliance helps the Horde get thier city back in SoO.

They didn't wipe out the trolls. The trolls still exist. And the trolls weren't even part of the Horde that they did kill. (which they had to to survive against the trolls). You are trying to make it sound like the trolls were peaceful carebears that were ruthlessly slaughtered by the humans/elves for no reason what so ever.

Alliance loose a dozen cities and 2 capital cities, a majority of the Night Elf population, Several non-faction leaders, several zones, and more. But yeah they just lost a couple quest zones while the Horde has lost everything because more faction leaders have died on Horde. LOL.

Maybe try playing both factions. You then might realize how stupid your argument is.

[Maljinwo]

Vol’jin got assassinated by the Jailer who cut off his power to get him killed..

Vol'jin was killed by a deus ex machina

The fel poison that killed him was literally unheard of
And has never been heard of since

[sam86]

Why does it need to be repeatable and why are you denying content that is repeatable through alts?

most of ur play is/should be on ur main, how many alts u have? 20? 30? SoO is since out since MoP era so u had access to it 500+ time
can u really count alt quest and 1 time scenario vs 500+ time raid?
if u want to count alliance vs horde loss u can start with losing entire planet for horde, try to 'outloss' that (which happened thanks to Medivh/Sargeras, if u want to go blame entire race for 1 individual action u can blame humans for that in that logic, alongside blaming nelf for sundering Azeroth)
both sides did lot of crimes, but biggest difference between alliance and horde is horde try to repent, alliance kill u, claim that is the right action, steal ur land, never think wrong of anything, check Tyralion story or heck entire alliance foundation with high elves (who ironically are still alliance, worst fictional stockholm case ever)

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Vol'jin was killed by a deus ex machina

The fel poison that killed him was literally unheard of
And has never been heard of since

Vol'jin was killed by a trash mob in legion, until they decided to reuse that idea in BFA
Same as Sylvannas, her motives literally change every patch, pre-BFA it was to invade stormwind, her 'long lost' dream that she didn't even know herself since we have a lot of her inner monologue since wow started, then in SL it was follow Jailer for breaking chain, while even a worm that has no brain can detect easily he is pure evil
Let's not sugar coat it, they wanted to off Vol'jin, they invented a reason later, that simple, it was presented way wrong, hope they don't repeat it (yeah right...)

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Gameplay is not lore, no matter how salty it makes you. In this case, raids happen only once in the story, because otherwise it's nonsense with weekly resets.

Canonically, SoO happened once. Please stop trying to claim it's a weekly event in the lore.

so... u consider gameplay isn't valuable because of lore? then alliance still win by miles in lore, u beat horde both in-game and lore
i don't get it?

Alliance lost (as per Fifth War + Cata): Gilneas, Southshore, Hillsbrad in general, Silverwind Refuge, Astranaar, half of Ashenvale in total, all of Stonetalon, Darkshore (uninhabitable due to Blight, impossible to repopulate now), Theramore and all holdings in the surrounding areas. (Only thing they kept was Northwatch), basically everything past Tandol's Span aside from Arathi but even then orcs still remain in the area, seceded Azshara... And list goes on really, i probably forgot a burned down village, genocided town or just a huge load of dead civilians and ruined livelihoods.

Horde lost: Arathi, but they still have outpost there and it was NEVER Horde's land to begin with, not even close, not in a fever dream.

ok... u really bad at updated lore
Southshore is officially alliance, entire Ashenvale is alliance, Stonetalon was never an alliance zone to lose, Darkshore got cleansed in the crap Night warrior story, Theramore and half of barrens are alliance, Arathi is pure alliance, Hillsbrad (it holds alterac too) is still contested, neither claim it
yeah u are right, the situation isn't bad, it is far worse than even i thought, if blizz decide to update game to show lore horde will have to go fuck themselves with no zone at all to even lvl, even pure horde lands like Durotan has strong alliance presence official lore
Why not just ask to delete horde faction and end it?

[qwerty123456]

most of ur play is/should be on ur main, how many alts u have? 20? 30? SoO is since out since MoP era so u had access to it 500+ time
can u really count alt quest and 1 time scenario vs 500+ time raid?
if u want to count alliance vs horde loss u can start with losing entire planet for horde, try to 'outloss' that (which happened thanks to Medivh/Sargeras, if u want to go blame entire race for 1 individual action u can blame humans for that in that logic, alongside blaming nelf for sundering Azeroth)
both sides did lot of crimes, but biggest difference between alliance and horde is horde try to repent, alliance kill u, claim that is the right action, steal ur land, never think wrong of anything, check Tyralion story or heck entire alliance foundation with high elves (who ironically are still alliance, worst fictional stockholm case ever)

Why are you obsessed with repeatedly fighting in SoO? Also again the Alliance isn't fighting the Horde they are fighting Garrosh and his dickheads. If you really have such an obsession with fighting the other faction then you can organize raids and fight the faction leaders. Cannonically SoO only happened once and even then it was helping the Horde reclaim its city.

The Horde never lost a planet the orcs did. Our Horde was founded on Azeroth. LOL you think the Horde try and repent? They just followed 2 genocidal monsters a couple years apart.

[Feanoro]

Gameplay, especially raid weekly resets, isn't lore. It would be sheer nonsense otherwise. "Heroes! You know how you killed everything in Blackwing Lair last week? Someone came along and resurrected them and restocked all the treasure you took! In lore, resurrection is incredibly rare, but even the tiny whelps were brought back! They're waiting patiently for you to raid them again with no memory of your victory!"

So no, SoO being repeatable has exactly nothing to do with lore. If you still don't understand that, you simply are refusing to do so.

[Aucald]

Vol'jin was killed by a deus ex machina

The fel poison that killed him was literally unheard of
And has never been heard of since

It's actually encountered a few times in Legion, e.g. the quest "Not Feeling Well" which has you helping to treat Fel-poisoned Monks on the Broken Shore. The deep corruption of Felwood also killed off much of its indigenous fauna via Fel poisoning, with only the hardier beings like Furbolgs and larger mammals like bears able to survive the poisoning, being corrupted and/or mutated by it instead.

[Tarba]

I think alliance quests should be written like horde ones.
"Today is monday, and I had a good sleep last night.
I've noticed some night elves around the corner, you should kill them for reasons."

[Maljinwo]

It's actually encountered a few times in Legion, e.g. the quest "Not Feeling Well" which has you helping to treat Fel-poisoned Monks on the Broken Shore. The deep corruption of Felwood also killed off much of its indigenous fauna via Fel poisoning, with only the hardier beings like Furbolgs and larger mammals like bears able to survive the poisoning, being corrupted and/or mutated by it instead.

If only Vol'jin had some "Yseralline Seed for healing, Bruiseweed for curing poison, and Elemental Earth for disease resistance and just a touch of ground Felwort for attunement." to be healed instead of being a troll that are naturally resistant to poison coupled with being blessed by a loa of death and being beholden to the loa of poison as well

Let's not kid ourselves. They just wanted him gone