Diablo 4 could end up having microtransactions

[Delekii]

Which proves you don't need 5-star gems.

No, it proves that until other people have paid enough you don't need 5 star gems.

[Endus]

Did you mean to say DI? I'm confused. DI is absolutely P2W. Quin got massively more from his 10k than he would have got from spending nothing, he just didn't get a 5 star gem. That's how loot boxes work.

What D4 will be remains to be seen.

I did mean DI (and edited my post accordingly). Just misspoke.

[Elim Garak]

No, it proves that until other people have paid enough you don't need 5 star gems.

It doesn't prove that. As of now a very very very very few people will have 5-star gems, not to mention upgrade them

5-star gems are irrelevant.

And later they will be widespread and something else will be the next big thing.

[Jerot]

It doesn't prove that. As of now a very very very very few people will have 5-star gems, not to mention upgrade them

5-star gems are irrelevant.

And later they will be widespread and something else will be the next big thing.

If you want to experience all the immortal-only content or fight for first on the server, if people like quin are on your server, you will need to spend an equivalent amount of money to keep up. The only reason they aren't as relevant is because of how few people want to sink tens of thousands of dollars into a mobile game, most people rather just get what they can for free and walk away. Which is the monetization failing, people should want to keep playing and paying.

If they treat DI power systems like they do WoW power systems and throw them out after a year or two, then no one is ever going to want to spend money on power, which defeats the purpose of selling it. They're just alienating a large part of the market, including competitive gamers, who they clearly tried to target by making the focus of the game this shadows vs immortals system, its in the name. No matter how you slice it, they could be doing MUCH better.

[Elim Garak]

If you want to experience all the immortal-only content or fight for first on the server, if people like quin are on your server, you will need to spend an equivalent amount of money to keep up. The only reason they aren't as relevant is because of how few people want to sink tens of thousands of dollars into a mobile game, most people rather just get what they can for free and walk away. Which is the monetization failing, people should want to keep playing and paying.

Lol, especially considering the below

If they treat DI power systems like they do WoW power systems and throw them out after a year or two, then no one is ever going to want to spend money on power, which defeats the purpose of selling it. They're just alienating a large part of the market, including competitive gamers, who they clearly tried to target by making the focus of the game this shadows vs immortals system, its in the name.

Lol, especially considering the above.

It's like do or do not - be damned.

But to give you a clue - that's how ALL successful F2P games work. Whales don't pay once to stay on top forever - that's actually boring and they leave.
So developers give them new content with even more powerful doodads, or tangential power gain, new modes to spend on, etc.
No whale would buy a new thing if it doesn't make them stronger one way or another.
The reason whales buy power - is to be powerful. Obviously.
A whale who has nothing to spend on - LEAVES.
Nobody cares about free players much. They are ad revenue. But the gap between them and whaels cannot get too wide, so catch-up mechanics and welfare doodads are introduced with the new content for whales. Who don't mind. Easy is boring too.

[arkanon]

If you want to experience all the immortal-only content or fight for first on the server, if people like quin are on your server, you will need to spend an equivalent amount of money to keep up. The only reason they aren't as relevant is because of how few people want to sink tens of thousands of dollars into a mobile game, most people rather just get what they can for free and walk away. Which is the monetization failing, people should want to keep playing and paying.

If they treat DI power systems like they do WoW power systems and throw them out after a year or two, then no one is ever going to want to spend money on power, which defeats the purpose of selling it. They're just alienating a large part of the market, including competitive gamers, who they clearly tried to target by making the focus of the game this shadows vs immortals system, its in the name. No matter how you slice it, they could be doing MUCH better.

A year or two? nonono, its per SEASON.

[Smash Adams]

They explicitly said “Paid content is built around optional cosmetic items and eventually full expansions.”

That should be end of discussion. Continuing to claim that the game will revert to P2W micro transactions is willingly disregarding what’s being said just for the sake of arguing. They’re literally running full speed to distance IV from Immortal.

[Jerot]

A year or two? nonono, its per SEASON.

DI has no seasons, lol. It will have battle pass seasons, but you can main one character forever. Apparently they were talking about eventually allowing class changes so you don't have to start from scratch? Don't know how that will work with awakened legendaries, Ah yes, pay us another $85 to fully use the gear you've already farmed.

It's just an assbackwards monetization scheme that will inevitably fall apart when they fail to deliver content at a reasonable pace. Like virtually every blizzard title with the exception of Hearthstone. (Probably because gambling came built-in with the genre)

They explicitly said “Paid content is built around optional cosmetic items and eventually full expansions.”

That should be end of discussion. Continuing to claim that the game will revert to P2W micro transactions is willingly disregarding what’s being said just for the sake of arguing. They’re literally running full speed to distance IV from Immortal.

Anchored around doesn't mean without anything else. And they have been choosing their words extremely carefully with DI. Can't pay for EXP or to rank up gear, but you can buy battle pass levels for EXP boosts and crafting materials. Won't sell gear, but will paywall awakening the gear for a bonus 30% damage and 30% reduced cooldowns and additional power through gems.

Nothing they have said or done significantly distances them from something they put out less than a month ago.

Worst case we go in with the worst possible expectations and are pleasantly surprised. Beats getting hyped up for another flop.

[Nymrohd]

Honestly I expect the system to be nerfed down the line. They are milking the whales now but actually getting to BiS could very well cost over a million.

- - - Updated - - -

DI has no seasons, lol. It will have battle pass seasons, but you can main one character forever. Apparently they were talking about eventually allowing class changes so you don't have to start from scratch? Don't know how that will work with awakened legendaries, Ah yes, pay us another $85 to fully use the gear you've already farmed.

It's just an assbackwards monetization scheme that will inevitably fall apart when they fail to deliver content at a reasonable pace. Like virtually every blizzard title with the exception of Hearthstone. (Probably because gambling came built-in with the genre)



Anchored around doesn't mean without anything else. And they have been choosing their words extremely carefully with DI. Can't pay for EXP or to rank up gear, but you can buy battle pass levels for EXP boosts and crafting materials. Won't sell gear, but will paywall awakening the gear for a bonus 30% damage and 30% reduced cooldowns and additional power through gems.

Nothing they have said or done significantly distances them from something they put out less than a month ago.

Worst case we go in with the worst possible expectations and are pleasantly surprised. Beats getting hyped up for another flop.

I think awakening and everything else is transferable.

[Eosia]

I think the NetEase influence is a large factor with D:Immortal. However, beyond the types of games they are and what platforms they run on (I mean there's tons of PC games loaded with predatory P2W/MTX schemes, not just mobile games), the bigger issue is Blizz themselves.

While a lot of people may be focusing on the current debacle when it comes to D:Immortal and the shifty/evasive language we're getting from Blizz employees when it comes to the MTX aspect of the game, such practices have been around for a loooong time with Blizz... just most people forgot or didn't notice. A more recent example is with the Shadowlands expansion of WoW: if you were and alpha/beta tester for the expansion (and actually serious about testing it, not just dicking around for fun), you would know the game was going to launch in a terrible state with tons of issues. The issues ranged from systems not being good, bugs upon bugs, balancing issues, etc. While the expansion launch was delayed, it should've been delayed at least another month to fix issues, but I'm fairly certain the bean counters said no. In the weeks and months following launch, when players started noticing a bunch of the issues that were reported and mentioned during the testing phase, what did Blizz say? They basically threw the testers under the bus, playing things off as "wow, this issue/bug didn't show up in testing, we'll get right on that" and claiming that there was basically no feedback... which is utter gaslighting. Keep in mind, this is just one example, there's a ton going back over the years that I recall starting around the time Ion got promoted (not saying it's necessarily his fault, just pointing out the timeline).

While there has been some regime change at Blizz since last summer, we just traded one bad regime for another bad regime with the similar issues. While I don't doubt that there are people that care about the players and their products as Blizz, the environment there probably stifles them and/or drowns out any voice of opposition. Seriously, that sort of way of treating people is how you get sexual assault/harassment issues in the first place, the root of the problem didn't change.

At this time, I don't see how anyone can trust a word Blizz says. To be fair, when it comes to corporations (or politicians, celebrities, etc.), you should never trust what they say without verification, even if you like them. However, I kind of feel like the current cultural paradigm is to drink the Kool-aid that's fed to us by the powers at be without questioning it or even defending it rabidly when said powers are working against them to their faces. We've come a long way over several decades from questioning and rebelling against authority to championing it and fighting for the same authority (at least in the US). While Blizz may not be that big of an authority in the grand scheme of things, it's the same mindset (and probably people) who will sell their soul without realizing it, all while cheering their own demise.

Here's the thing though... with the lone exception of Hearthstone, which really isn't an exception given the model is the same if it were a physical card game as the one that used to exist for WoW, there is no "Pay 2 Win" coming from Blizzard itself on its titles that it developed on its own. Everything is either cosmetic or service oriented. And no, WoW Tokens are not "pay to win" either.

The closest thing to "Pay 2 Win" ever was the Real Money Auction House that was in Diablo III 1.x and Blizzard shut that shit-show down because they saw it was ruining the game.

[Elim Garak]

Here's the thing though... with the lone exception of Hearthstone, which really isn't an exception given the model is the same if it were a physical card game as the one that used to exist for WoW, there is no "Pay 2 Win" coming from Blizzard itself on its titles that it developed on its own. Everything is either cosmetic or service oriented. And no, WoW Tokens are not "pay to win" either.

WoW token gives you BiS gear.

The closest thing to "Pay 2 Win" ever was the Real Money Auction House that was in Diablo III 1.x and Blizzard shut that shit-show down because they saw it was ruining the game.

RMAH wasn't P2W like at all. And they didn't shut it down because it was ruining the game. Their loot system was ruining the game.

[Biomega]

WoW token gives you BiS gear.

Buying gear indirectly in WoW = p2w.

RMAH wasn't P2W like at all.

Buying gear directly in D3 = not p2w like at all.

I see. That is a convincing argument, I must say. Impeccable logic at work here.

[shadowmatrix]

WoW token gives you BiS gear.

WOW token gets you gold, if your BIS isn't on the AH or a part of boosted runs for sale then your still SOL. Your still dependent on other players.

[Elim Garak]

Buying gear indirectly in WoW = p2w.

I didn't say it's p2w

Buying gear directly in D3 = not p2w like at all.

You couldn't buy gear that didn't drop for someone. And the loot system was broken - so you mostly got drops for OTHER classes than your own.

I see. That is a convincing argument, I must say. Impeccable logic at work here.

You are making this strawman into an argument.

- - - Updated - - -

WOW token gets you gold, if your BIS isn't on the AH or a part of boosted runs for sale then your still SOL. Your still dependent on other players.

Of course. But WoW Token does give you BiS gear.

[Biomega]

I didn't say it's p2w

You responded to someone literally saying "And no, WoW Tokens are not 'pay to win' either" with "WoW token gives you BiS gear."

I don't believe you that you didn't mean to imply this was in fact p2w. You've realized now how messed up your statements were, and are trying to backpedal into "I never said this".

I believe the term you like to use for this is "mental gymnastics". So, 10-point landing for you, I guess.

[Elim Garak]

You responded to someone literally saying "And no, WoW Tokens are not 'pay to win' either" with "WoW token gives you BiS gear."

I don't believe you that you didn't mean to imply this was in fact p2w. You've realized now how messed up your statements were, and are trying to backpedal into "I never said this".

I believe the term you like to use for this is "mental gymnastics". So, 10-point landing for you, I guess.

You made an assumption, and instead of admitting that it was a mistake, you decide to double down.

See? I too can describe what people are doing, it's just my descriptions are actually accurate.

[Biomega]

You made an assumption, and instead of admitting that it was a mistake, you decide to double down.

See? I too can describe what people are doing, it's just my descriptions are actually accurate.

Except we have the literal quotes there, which pretty much say it all.

When it's actual quotes vs. you claiming you didn't mean it, it's easy to see what's going on. Denial just makes this look sad and petty. But you do you, I guess.

[Aleksej89]

guys stop bothering about this and just expect the worst from bli$$ard.
if d4 on release ends up not being the worst, hey neat surprise.

otherwise there is still d2, d3 and poe/poe2 to play.
no point in arguing over what is currently unknowable.

[Elim Garak]

Except we have the literal quotes there, which pretty much say it all.

When it's actual quotes vs. you claiming you didn't mean it, it's easy to see what's going on. Denial just makes this look sad and petty. But you do you, I guess.

That assumes you understood what I was saying correctly.
You are literally tripling down right now, even after I corrected you. You haven't even tried to ask me what I meant. You are incredible, as in, not credible.

[Beefhammer]

You responded to someone literally saying "And no, WoW Tokens are not 'pay to win' either" with "WoW token gives you BiS gear."

I don't believe you that you didn't mean to imply this was in fact p2w. You've realized now how messed up your statements were, and are trying to backpedal into "I never said this".

I believe the term you like to use for this is "mental gymnastics". So, 10-point landing for you, I guess.

No one was buying gear directly in D3. Just like in WiW it had to be found first. How often are the 1 or 2 BoE items from raids BiS? Even then is 1 belt enough to make a scrub with money become a worlds/server first raider?

In all seriousness, by the time anyone can buy a carry the races are over and you win nothing. Likewise in D3, it was no different than D2. Blizzard just decided to make a safe haven for those online RMTs. How often is D2 considered P2W.

P2W is typically when the company offers the advantage directly. The token is still a trade transaction. If there is no demand for the token the gold price goes down. But this is still alot better than the old days where people bought the gold from shady Chinese gold farmers. Yet, BoEs were still around back then and no one cried P2W.

DI is as close to P2W as it gets. Really only with the gems, but it's still buying power r the chance at it directly from the game without the middleman of someone playing to get said items to trade.

And yes D4 will have MTX. We knew this as far back as the reveal in 2019. They will not sell power and that was reconfirmed yesterday.