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  1. #441
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    That is true.

    Definitely voice your displeasure. Ideally follow it up with consequences, too, if it's ignored. That's being a responsible consumer.
    I've been a bit dismissive, but yeah. If you don't like a thing, say you don't like it (but don't tell other people that they're wrong for liking it, cause that's a dick move). If you can explain why, so much the better. And then, you don't engage further with the thing.

    If you buy the game (or whatever) anyway, and bitch about it over and over while stamping your feet sitting in a queue to get access, and then make angry forum posts about how awful the game is and you definitely know it because you've got 600 hours of play under your belt and it's all been awful the whole time, you're a happy customer who's cosplaying as angry, and you've really got to fuckin' stop and take a little personal responsibility.


  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    you've really got to fuckin' stop and take a little personal responsibility.
    Can't stress the importance of this enough.

    Not only are you enabling already bad design and business choices if you buy things over your own protest, but you're also signaling to the people making them that it's okay if their customers yell, they don't really mean it, and that brand loyalty has reached such ridiculous heights that a good chunk of HIGHLY VOCAL criticism can and should be dismissed outright because it won't actually result in lost profits.

    THAT'S TERRIBLE FOR ALL OF US.

  3. #443
    Scarab Lord SinR's Avatar
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    just remember folks, a matching Transmog boosts your Dee Pee Ess by 25%
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  4. #444
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Can't stress the importance of this enough.

    Not only are you enabling already bad design and business choices if you buy things over your own protest, but you're also signaling to the people making them that it's okay if their customers yell, they don't really mean it, and that brand loyalty has reached such ridiculous heights that a good chunk of HIGHLY VOCAL criticism can and should be dismissed outright because it won't actually result in lost profits.

    THAT'S TERRIBLE FOR ALL OF US.
    And it's not just games. I've seriously seen people say shit like "I saw the new Star Wars film twice. It was horrible." Then why'd you fuckin' go the second time? To the theater?

    Insert Star Trek or whatever in there, I'm not trying to derail into other IPs. Just making the case that this is a REAL broad issue.


  5. #445
    Scarab Lord SinR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And it's not just games. I've seriously seen people say shit like "I saw the new Star Wars film twice. It was horrible." Then why'd you fuckin' go the second time? To the theater?

    Insert Star Trek or whatever in there, I'm not trying to derail into other IPs. Just making the case that this is a REAL broad issue.
    I mean, maybe they saw it once, and Boy/Girlfriend wanted to go see it so they went again.

    Or they drug their mates to it to make them suffer.
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Insert Star Trek or whatever in there, I'm not trying to derail into other IPs. Just making the case that this is a REAL broad issue.
    I've had this happen in academia, too. A colleague bought me a copy of a novel because "it is absolute trash, here, read it and see for yourself" (and not in an ironic way).

    People just don't think too much about what they're doing, I guess.

  7. #447
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I've had this happen in academia, too. A colleague bought me a copy of a novel because "it is absolute trash, here, read it and see for yourself" (and not in an ironic way).

    People just don't think too much about what they're doing, I guess.
    I mean, I own a copy of Twilight, and I've read the whole damned thing. But I'm also trying to get a writing career off the ground, and it's a pretty great "if THIS drek can get published, I can too" motivator. Studying bad fiction is a useful thing, career-wise. But that was research/work, not reading for enjoyment.


  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Studying bad fiction is a useful thing, career-wise.
    Oh believe me, I'm well aware. I study literature for a living But trust me, this was not such a case. It was pure hate-reading. Which I get as an emotional effect, but disapprove of nonetheless.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Sluvs View Post
    While people might have slightly different definitions about P2W, ANYTHING that affects you character in anyway that is not cosmetic is player power in the end. Mainly for D4. But even if you disagree with me, the examples that you gave me are almost the definition of selling player power. XP boosts? Player power, it literally helps you level up faster. Increasing loot drop? Definitely player power. It is literally giving you power faster.

    IMHO it should be cosmetics ONLY. AND even then it sucks big time, the only reason that I accept that is because D4 multiplayer will be more heavily featured, so it makes sense that they would need MTXs to some extent to support the game for longer. But even stash space should be COMPLETELY off the table.

    Answering the question that you posed, 60 bucks. Or whatever the retail price they decided. That should be the total price that a player should spend to enjoy the game to its fullest. The fact that this is a point that is being discussed, the price that a player shold pay to have an ENJOYABLE experience, is quite fraknly, disheartening.

    TBF, I do believe them when they said that it will be cosmetics. As I said before. D:I is made for a very specific target audience in mind. D4 is a different beast, Core players are WAY less tolerating of MTX.
    They even made this very clear at the botched first announcement discussion. It's not really for core D players. But we are welcome to play too
    "Uh huh. So destroying southshore is meh, but camp cow is so important that you have to destroy a port city?" - Sunlily

  10. #450

  11. #451
    None of us should be surprised at MTX existing, but it's the extent of it that matters. No way in hell D4 is going to be the atrocious, predatory MTX apocalypse that D:I is; D:I is a mobile gacha game, made by a company with tons of experience with predatory gacha mechanics. It's far more disgusting than I anticipated but not unexpected.

    D4 on the other hand is gonna be a core, non-mobile AAA release. I don't think they'll go full retard and put in ludicrous p2w mechanics like they did with D:I. If they do, I have no problems ignoring the game forever as there's tons of things out there to enjoy. I expect there to cosmetic MTX certainly and maybe stash tab BS. Things like loot chance boosts, monthly bundles with resources, etc.? Fuck that. What's the point of having an ARPG like Diablo if you give players a way to circumvent the core of the experience with money (which is what makes D:I's model so disgusting).

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by minitiative View Post
    D4 on the other hand is gonna be a core, non-mobile AAA release. I don't think they'll go full retard and put in ludicrous p2w mechanics like they did with D:I.
    They don't need to go full retard. Any P2W monetization makes the game P2W, regardless of amount. Poor wording.

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    They don't need to go full retard. Any P2W monetization makes the game P2W, regardless of amount. Poor wording.
    I doubt any will be in D4. The only one I could see would be a level boost. But that would require an account with a max level character already. But even then, I don't see that, as the exploration is one of the things that are crucial to ARPGs IMO, even though most are procedurally generated areas, seeking out every nook and cranny for those hidden areas, objectives, and enemies is important.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I mean, I own a copy of Twilight, and I've read the whole damned thing. But I'm also trying to get a writing career off the ground, and it's a pretty great "if THIS drek can get published, I can too" motivator. Studying bad fiction is a useful thing, career-wise. But that was research/work, not reading for enjoyment.
    Good luck. Been around the forum long enough to know you are fully capable of being successful in writing.

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And it's not just games. I've seriously seen people say shit like "I saw the new Star Wars film twice. It was horrible." Then why'd you fuckin' go the second time? To the theater?

    Insert Star Trek or whatever in there, I'm not trying to derail into other IPs. Just making the case that this is a REAL broad issue.
    It's common for any media, including games. People spend hours upon hours in games and then leave reviews how shit it is while they keep on playing it. These forums is a big testament to that tbfh.
    It's something that happened when people started to think it was cool to dislike things. Everything is to made fun of nowadays, you are not allowed to enjoy it, if you crap on it you have superior tastes or whatever..

    I don't get it. Just admit you like things...

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    It's common for any media, including games. People spend hours upon hours in games and then leave reviews how shit it is while they keep on playing it. These forums is a big testament to that tbfh.
    It's something that happened when people started to think it was cool to dislike things. Everything is to made fun of nowadays, you are not allowed to enjoy it, if you crap on it you have superior tastes or whatever..

    I don't get it. Just admit you like things...
    There are a few guys on the official forums who constantly bag on D3, have multiple accounts, one over a dozen, have put in 1000s of hours, and play every season, but constantly rip on the game.

    And I was hating on things 40 years ago before it became cool.

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    There are a few guys on the official forums who constantly bag on D3, have multiple accounts, one over a dozen, have put in 1000s of hours, and play every season, but constantly rip on the game.

    And I was hating on things 40 years ago before it became cool.
    We all remember the "Boycott modern warfare 2 until dedicated servers" image...

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    We all remember the "Boycott modern warfare 2 until dedicated servers" image...
    I also remember all the people who said they would quit over the Pathfinder flying stuff in WoW, many of them still play.

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Cosmetics, sure... but power gain MTX like DI I highly doubt.
    Not like DI but i bet it will have some sort of battle pass and xp or increase drop chance boosts.

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Soimu View Post
    Not like DI but i bet it will have some sort of battle pass and xp or increase drop chance boosts.
    Got no problem with BPs, they're typically just cosmetics.

    As for XP, games like World of Tanks has the premium account to give extra credits and XP, so maybe. Faster progress...

  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    How? It is free. "Free" does not mean "will not contain potential optional purchases".


    You retain per-transaction control because you need to actively opt in to each transaction.

    If you mean kids continuing to use your card for thousands of dollars of purchases; 1> get them their own Visa debit card that has a limited cash value, or 2> take your card off after the first purchase. Kids making unwarranted purchases on their parents' credit cards like this is practically always a parent's fault. The exception I'd allow is if the kid actually stole the card out of your wallet or something.



    Yeah, you're not a serious person.



    It was cancelled right before Reaper of Souls was released to much acclaim. What content had already been created was rolled into the Necromancer pack or otherwise added to the game for free, places like Sescheron Ruins.

    Beyond that, anything else is speculation. And they did release the Necromancer in 2017. Maybe they felt they didn't have enough for a 2nd expansion, idea-wise. Maybe they felt it was better to roll it into D4, or move on to D4 more quickly than otherwise intended. Maybe they want more of a cash-shop integration with Diablo than D3 offers, so they can get more recurring monetization where Diablo 3 is mostly up-front purchases.

    The idea that they nuked it because D3 wasn't successful is just objectively untrue, though.



    I jump back into NMS every now and then, too. And? Their launch was a hell of a lot rockier than D3's, and bad word of mouth led to mass refunds and such. They've built NMS back into a powerhouse, sure, but they're approaching it from a completely different perspective.



    Frankly, I tried PoE, and quit because I couldn't stand it. I'm really not a fan of their monetization model, either. Not really sure what your point is, either; they're entirely funded by MtX, so they have to keep providing steady content to justify players continuing to play and thus continuing to spend. Diablo 3 doesn't need to dangle a carrot, because it's not seeking additional funding with each season.
    NMS is a really bad example here. Game was initially a fraud, launching with less than 5% of the advertised features. 5 years later, it STILL had only about 30% of the features advertised pre-launch; now, something close to 50% - still a fraud.

    The fact that they added a ton of other stuff into the game doesn’t change that. First, because that stuff is mostly useless. Second - would you want to pay in advance for a sport car, then receive only a steering wheel at agreed date, a seat one year later, a couple of wheels two years later, and finally getting an electro bike something like 6-7 years later - instead of the sports car that you paid for? This is what NMS is.

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