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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    If anything the precedent is the opposite.
    diablo immortal set a precedent where power was purchasable. given that all mtx in d4 are shown as cosmetic and reward non-tradable, it doesnt fit that precedent, therefore no reason to believe it will be otherwise before the actual game release.

  2. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    diablo immortal set a precedent where power was purchasable. given that all mtx in d4 are shown as cosmetic and reward non-tradable, it doesnt fit that precedent, therefore no reason to believe it will be otherwise before the actual game release.
    I more meant that D3 was effectively P2W with the RMAH and that was reversed.

  3. #523
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I more meant that D3 was effectively P2W with the RMAH and that was reversed.
    D3 essentially launched with RMAH, while Diablo 4 is set to launch without any p2w or p2power or similar options, so not really comparable. iirc, blizzard has never launched a game where they started with cosmetics and then proceeded to add p2w/p2power, so while I was skeptical before their latest update, there shouldnt be any significant concerns going forward for D4.

  4. #524
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    Can people plz stop getting their information from muppets like asmongold who don't even play diablo games... his previous diablo vid was full click bait.

  5. #525
    I just finished reading the D4 update about seasons and shop and I really like their approach. Even without paying for MTX theres still alot of great looking sets ingame.
    If they really gonna have good team to support future seassons and still work on the game for years I can see myself even buying season pass from time to time.

    At this point I'm pretty sure I'm going to have alot of fun with the new Diablo even without later updates.

  6. #526
    As long as its just cosmetics and nothing that actually affects the game itself I could care less, its when they start adding boosts and stuff that gives people advantages over others that makes me walk the other way.

  7. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    It's also about fair cost accounting. Costs can fluctuate well beyond original predictions and budgeting. E.g. the current energy crisis is blowing budgets when it comes to server upkeep. Prudency requires that your business model can account for that. A single payment model simply cannot.
    From my PoV it's just generating more revenue, because they can. There isn't really any other reason why they axed the 2nd D3 expansion other than they didn't see a way to get more money than a box price from it as the base game didn't support a massive live service backend. So we got a $20 pack to buy the necromancer and devs got reassigned to other projects that had a lot more potential revenue. Before they would've focused on getting that revenue from a new box price with an expansion in 2 years, and recoup the development costs for upkeep and adding new content. I really doubt we are going to see additional content that much every 3 months in D4, rather game mode updates and special events added and then we are sold an expansion in 2 years that adds new maps and massively reworks the game with possibly adding new classes. But hey could be wrong as well.

    Servers costs also used to be far lower though.
    Depends what used means, they are greater than 2 years ago yes, but the server costs aren't anywhere near what they used to be 10 years ago, or near 20 when WoW for instance was getting ready to launch. We've seen massive uptake in network and server capacity/bandwidth, while game complexity hasn't matched the progression. Before you may have had spefied hardware to run a single game, today we just boot up a VM to handle it all on generic hardware. We do have inflation, but server costs for running a game online have massively dropped down.

    Blizzard already has server locations established because of WoW and Bnet before that and soon they get to use Azure servers from inside the company if they so choose. Data amounts ran for a base game isn't that much. Mostly it's down to verifying actions on server side, but we are talking about 50 mil people max at the same time, so computation costs arent amazingly high for what current tech can provide.

    I think I need to make it clear that I don't blame them for anything. As a publicly traded company they have an obligation to the share holders to maximize profits and we've accepted a live service model. We won't pay more than $60 for a game, so they need to get the revenue with other means. Am just saying they don't need to do a live service model to be successful, it's just there to increase the revenue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickiler View Post
    I genuinely don't know of any small studios that predominately run their own game servers. Most provide users with the ability to run their own servers and then let the community deal with it, with a small amount of "official" servers with limited slots.
    They use cloud services because the amount of data isn't much comparatively to what it took in early years or online vs cloud options we had available and you don't have to put up data centers in 20 different locations to keep the playing experience good.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    D3 essentially launched with RMAH, while Diablo 4 is set to launch without any p2w or p2power or similar options, so not really comparable. iirc, blizzard has never launched a game where they started with cosmetics and then proceeded to add p2w/p2power, so while I was skeptical before their latest update, there shouldnt be any significant concerns going forward for D4.
    Think it needs to be pointed out they still haven't ruled out P2W from D4. You can still pay to progress with the season pass for example. So what's there to say you can't do that with other things. It's not power, just getting something easier.

    Lost Ark for example technically isn't selling power, but you can buy gold and mats with gold, you get gold by playing, but it takes time hence it's pay to progress and I think most people regard Lost Ark on being P2W. It's like DI devs saying they don't sell gear upgrades, but it's only true because gems are not considered gear in their minds.

  8. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by DPA View Post
    The listing in question, which is for a Product Manager for Diablo 4, reveals that the successful candidate "will play a critical role in managing the Diablo 4 in-game store experience," which is described by the listing as "a key component of the game's seasonal content strategy." Whoever gets the job will also be responsible for identifying sales trends and quantifying purchase behaviors, as well as using tools to configure prices and availability within the in-game store.

    https://gamerant.com/diablo-4-diablo...otransactions/

    The job add in question:

    https://careers.blizzard.com/global/...ager-Diablo-IV
    That title made me laughing heavily. „could“ … in the same statement of mentioning an ATVI Blizzard product! That made my day.

    It’s like saying:

    Bobby Kottick maybe “could“ be somehwat greedy.

    or

    ATVI Blizzard „could“ end up as some money making machine.

    or

    Charlie Manson „could“ be a Murderer.



    Yes, indeed. That maybe „could“ happen. Made my day.

  9. #529
    Now the core question is as follows: Will they be able to add enough content so that pirating the shit out of it becomes uninteresting?
    (the other question is of course: Will it be worth the effort to pirate?)
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  10. #530
    Its 2022 and it is an Activision-Blizzard created product. Yeah.. 100% going to have microtransactions.. what really matters is that the game isn't pay to win / pay for power like Diablo Immortal.

  11. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Now the core question is as follows: Will they be able to add enough content so that pirating the shit out of it becomes uninteresting?
    (the other question is of course: Will it be worth the effort to pirate?)
    If it is bigger than D3 and better in general on launch, as well as including more fleshed out seasons with quests etc then it will be for me for sure.

  12. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by DPA View Post
    The listing in question, which is for a Product Manager for Diablo 4, reveals that the successful candidate "will play a critical role in managing the Diablo 4 in-game store experience," which is described by the listing as "a key component of the game's seasonal content strategy." Whoever gets the job will also be responsible for identifying sales trends and quantifying purchase behaviors, as well as using tools to configure prices and availability within the in-game store.

    https://gamerant.com/diablo-4-diablo...otransactions/

    The job add in question:

    https://careers.blizzard.com/global/...ager-Diablo-IV
    Pretty much every game with a storefront has somone in this position. This is a nothingburger that because it's Blizzard, people drink the hyperbole kool-aid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post



    Think it needs to be pointed out they still haven't ruled out P2W from D4. You can still pay to progress with the season pass for example. So what's there to say you can't do that with other things. It's not power, just getting something easier.
    All progression bonuses are part of the free season pass, that are unlocked through play. The paid version gives additional cosmetics and premium currency to by store cosmetics. There is no pay to progress. Similar to DI, everyone get the free season pass but has the option to pay for the cosmetic extras.

  13. #533
    lol... "could"

    It is a given. Every good looking or fancy set will be in the store. You WILL have a Season Pass. And probably pay for convenience.

    ON TOP of the box price and every expansion.

    I decided for myself not to touch this blatant cachgrab.

    I just wait for the post explaining the various ingame and shop currencies you can "earn" to buy loot boxes. All in 3 steps so you never really know what is worth what.

    Ah yes don't forget the transmog sets probably will go up to 50 bucks if not more.

    If people support that... fuck them. SOrry not sorry. That is just so stupid and i will never understand why people would support such a borderlien criminal buisness.

  14. #534
    Quote Originally Posted by thilicen View Post
    If it is bigger than D3 and better in general on launch, as well as including more fleshed out seasons with quests etc then it will be for me for sure.
    Same, though petsonally i only tried out D3 due to the promise of pvp, which never really materialised.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  15. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Every good looking or fancy set will be in the store.
    We have a full THREE examples of direct comparison so far, and judging from people's reactions it's too close to call which ones are better-looking, the shop ones or the free ones. Which means it's working properly.

    Will there be more fancy sets on the store than for free? Very likely. That's... how cosmetic MTX work. But it won't be "every" set like you claim. That's just needless hyperbole to make you sound like you have a point.

    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    You WILL have a Season Pass.
    We know that already. It's been officially announced. I'm sure you're being fair here and will mention any day now that this season pass doesn't lock any actual CONTENT behind a pay wall. It doesn't even lock convenience, as the leveling boosts are from free tiers, NOT paid tiers, and CANNOT be bought for money. All the paid season pass offers is cosmetic stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    And probably pay for convenience.
    Do you have any evidence for this, or is this just "dude, trust me" speculation? The only convenience we know of is specifically NOT available for pay. They've explicitly said so.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for being a discerning customer and not supporting bad business practices. Companies must be taken to task when they do questionable shit. But THIS? This is just a bunch of doom-saying nonsense that's in direct contradiction to what they've said. If you have special information, let us know. But if you're just throwing wild speculation out there to barnacle the "LUL Blizz BAAAD" crowd, then grow up, will you.

  16. #536
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    All progression bonuses are part of the free season pass, that are unlocked through play. The paid version gives additional cosmetics and premium currency to by store cosmetics. There is no pay to progress. Similar to DI, everyone get the free season pass but has the option to pay for the cosmetic extras.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Players can purchase Tiers-but they won’t speed up getting Season Boosts.
    That is what I meant with pay for progress that exists already in their monetization model. This particular quote is bolded in the quarterly update when talking about season pass, you definately can buy tiers for the season pass hence pay for progress. I didn't say you get anything great from doing it, but you can.
    Last edited by mrgreenthump; 2022-08-21 at 03:36 AM.

  17. #537
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    IDK man they didn't have Crusader or Paladin at launch so my interest in D4 died overnight and made me more aware and suspicious of P2W systems being put in. I'm just gonna sit back and watch how it goes at first before getting the game. I will just buy it with gold anyway so I'm not too fussed. With millions in WoW just sitting there, it's not like I really give a shit if there's some cosmetics because if I want them, I just get them effortlessly anyway. If anything, I'm the target demographic because I will happily spend $100 worth of gold on pretty outfits if they make cool ones or on season passes/expansions/DLCs if they're good without thinking. That's what they want and they don't give a shit if it's bought with gold or daddy's credit card because so many of you monkeys bought tokens for boosts that they're cheap for me. I'm just wary because they didn't give me what I want yet with Paladin or Crusader at launch. I'm sure it'll come in an expansion or something later so I'll just wait for them to finetune the game until then.

    That includes P2W shit I guess as well. I don't want outright P2W stuff or boosts or other junk in the game. If platinum is just a cosmetic currency you can slowly accrue naturally like gems or some shit in a phone game, I don't care. That stuff's nothing. Cosmetics ARE nothing. Skins are nothing. You all say "hurr durr they make nice mogs and mounts for sale rather than adding things to the game" as if they actually would've added anything to the fucking game that they don't already anyway. Wake up, I don't say this out of defence of companies but out of contempt for their laziness. You really think if they didn't add something extra for easy money that they would've just added it anyway out of their goodness and respect for player commitment? Really? Get real. The only way they add anything extra is for money and if you don't want that shit, don't buy it. I'd rather they added cool mogs and mounts and shit and buy them free with WoW gold than they don't at all. Would it be cool if it was in the game anyway? Oh sure and if Immortal's any indication, there'll be plenty of those anyway. They didn't fuck THAT part of the game at least.

    Again, cosmetics and skins and shit are fine. Don't care. Don't like 95% of them and don't buy them ever. HoTS has heaps of cool cosmetics and fun shit in it, I loved that stuff, spent heaps of gold buying it. I'd do it for D4 if it likewise does it well. If it doesn't and takes too long adding Paladin/Crusader class, then it can fuck off.
    Paladin Bash has spoken.

  18. #538
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Players can purchase Tiers-but they won’t speed up getting Season Boosts.
    That is what I meant with pay for progress that exists already in their monetization model. This particular quote is bolded in the quarterly update when talking about season pass, you definately can buy tiers for the season pass hence pay for progress. I didn't say you get anything great from doing it, but you can.
    most people would consider pay to progress as in pay to unlock things that progress your char, not what you are saying, which is just pay to unlock cosmetics quicker.

    as of right now, it seems real straight forward that there will be no gains to power/convenience what so ever from spending money

  19. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    We have a full THREE examples of direct comparison so far, and judging from people's reactions it's too close to call which ones are better-looking, the shop ones or the free ones. Which means it's working properly.

    Will there be more fancy sets on the store than for free? Very likely. That's... how cosmetic MTX work. But it won't be "every" set like you claim. That's just needless hyperbole to make you sound like you have a point.


    We know that already. It's been officially announced. I'm sure you're being fair here and will mention any day now that this season pass doesn't lock any actual CONTENT behind a pay wall. It doesn't even lock convenience, as the leveling boosts are from free tiers, NOT paid tiers, and CANNOT be bought for money. All the paid season pass offers is cosmetic stuff.


    Do you have any evidence for this, or is this just "dude, trust me" speculation? The only convenience we know of is specifically NOT available for pay. They've explicitly said so.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for being a discerning customer and not supporting bad business practices. Companies must be taken to task when they do questionable shit. But THIS? This is just a bunch of doom-saying nonsense that's in direct contradiction to what they've said. If you have special information, let us know. But if you're just throwing wild speculation out there to barnacle the "LUL Blizz BAAAD" crowd, then grow up, will you.
    That is why i wrote "will" and "probably" but hey you do you and defend these fucking monetization practices in full price games.
    You are part of the problem why we only get this shit nowadays and some devs even put them into single player games (ubisoft)

    If i pay a box price i expect to get the game and not have to pay 1000 bucks extra just to get the transmogs and mounts. Doesn't even matter if someone thinks they are goodlocking or not. They are not in the game i allready payed for.
    make it F2P and you won't hear a word from me. I don't have a problem with League of Legends monetization. Expensive? Sure. But i can play the whole game for free.
    I cannot with diablo 4. I have to pay and then i have to pay extra to get everything.
    And yes cosmetics are part of the freraking game. Otherwise every game would onyl hav grey manequins.

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    That is what I meant with pay for progress that exists already in their monetization model. This particular quote is bolded in the quarterly update when talking about season pass, you definately can buy tiers for the season pass hence pay for progress. I didn't say you get anything great from doing it, but you can.
    A bit misleading, as it's not CHARACTER progress, it's SEASON OBJECTIVE progress - while character progress is about power, the season pass is purely about cosmetics. Even the one convenience advantage the season pass provides (leveling boosts) is decidedly NOT available for purchase but part of the free tiers.

    That's a bit like saying "you can buy progress in WoW!" only to find out it's ACHIEVEMENT progress; that's not what people would think when they first read it, so it's important to specify.

    As long as it's purely cosmetic, I really don't care much how they monetize it. By all means, give the MTX junkies their glowing golden god armors, whatever. As long as the actual CONTENT is free, we're good. Better than good, even, if more cosmetics money also translates into more content.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    If i pay a box price i expect to get the game and not have to pay 1000 bucks extra just to get the transmogs and mounts. Doesn't even matter if someone thinks they are goodlocking or not. They are not in the game i allready payed for.
    Except that's NOT what you get.

    You get the game AND ALL THE FUTURE CONTENT UPDATES until the next expansion. Who, pray tell, is going to finance all that? Just the box sale? And all the running costs for servers etc. too?

    That content has to come from somewhere. You know what you get for a buy-the-box-and-never-pay-anything-else model? Diablo 3. Where the new "seasons" are a token mechanic that two people came up with and everything else stays the fucking same for 10 fucking years. Or heck Diablo 2, where you got new rune words and some copy/paste uber bosses in ALL OF 20 YEARS.

    Is that what you want, really?

    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    make it F2P and you won't hear a word from me. I don't have a problem with League of Legends monetization. Expensive? Sure. But i can play the whole game for free.
    That's because League is the same game forever and ever, barring the odd special event. No one is going "hey why doesn't the entire game change every 3 months?" in LoL.

    You want F2P quality? Go play PoE. Deal with their indie graphics and animations, and acting-school VAs. That's the price you pay for F2P, an unpolished clump that some people adore but a lot of people just cannot stomach.

    This money for the box buys POLISH.

    You don't want or like that, that's cool. Don't buy it. That's what you SHOULD be doing anyway, as a responsible consumer.

    But when you criticize it, stay on the facts. Don't just invent things like how ALL the armors are going to be MTX only, or how you can suddenly BUY convenience, when we have actual, official word that neither of these are true.

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