Diablo 4 could end up having microtransactions

[Orby]

Are there any other games coming out not named Diablo that are like Diablo? Think I might give them a go.

[Alroxas]

Diablo Immortal and diablo 4 are not remotely the same.

People saying that they are the same are factually wrong.

One is a MOBILE GAME, the other one is a core diablo experience focusing on gamers on xbox and PC. Literally their core audience. They are not even remotely the same. And to pretend that they are is laughable.

But you're missing the point that we're trying to raise the alarm on. What MTX things from the mobile game could potentially see it's way to the PC focused retail game?

For instance, it's not out of the realm of possibility that we do see a battle pass system with D4 where there's a free rewards line vs a premium rewards line (i.e. WoT Battle Pass, The Division Season Pass, CoD Battle Pass)

Additionally, there's a question of whether player power could be bought via MTX in D4. And to what extent of player power that could represent? Are we looking at extra character slots or are we looking at a "premium" buff that could increase XP gains (e.g. Lost Ark's Crystalline Aura)? Or could MTX come in the form of extra QoL items (i.e. PoE Stash tabs)

Moreover, job posting for a In-Game Marketing position at Blizzard seems to indicate that we should expect to see more in-game things to purchase. We hope it's just cosmetics and maybe a future expansion/add-on content but it could also be numerous other things that we're cautioning against.

Additionally, once the door is open to MTX, it's harder for the company to justify not putting in those elements for future games. Even if it's only 0.001% of the player base that buys XYZ, that's still a positive financial benefit to the company's bottom line.

[Fencers]

Sure, a product. Not a big company that looks to grow though. Plenty of games that are in maintenance mode and earn their maintenance fee. But the company works on other games or already has one that earns more.

The ratio 2/98 is maintained even with 1000 players. But it's not a bread winner product.

Holistically, you are correct.

[Osmeric]

Quoting only this because it sums up my point: it's the opposite, the issue is growing larger and larger because of this reasoning.

Allowing this kind of behavious to be normal means we're going to see worse and worse over time and it won't stay on mobile only, because, as you said, if profit comes from a small % of the playerbase, then we don't need a good product or a playerbase at all to make money.

All the choice we're getting is copy/pasted "freemium" games that try to hook you with fun things at the start but then devolve fast into a slog to make you pay money for literally being able to play. The game dies very fast but then we have hundreds more, all basic clones of each other.

Maybe it's only me at this point, but knowing before the start that i'm gonna crash into a wall i cannot overcome if i don't pay money, it just kills any resemblance of fun. The whole gaming scene is devolving into a race to get the most amount of money out of people with the least investment possible, which i agree sounds really good for a company but terrible for players, as quality is dropping down as fuck. Probably i'm just an old relic and should stick to old games at this point and ignore anything new that comes.

All of this if i have intended the previous posts in the correct way - if not, feel free to point it out.

Your argument is like "if companies discover they can make more money making cars, then they'll stop making dishwashers."

What happens is that companies flock to the most profitable activities, causing more competition, driving down prices, making those activities less profitable. Things naturally even out.

P2W games will compete among themselves. Whales are willing to spend money, but they aren't going to be insensitive to price. And even if they were, there are only so many whales to go around. Companies will discover whales are a finite resource that will be increasingly spoken for.

[Nite92]

What the.. what?

If you buy a car, you move faster than those walking... If you don´t buy the game, you are not interested, you don´t play... if you buy it, you play like everyone else... how is that even remotely close to P2W?


You must be kidding... yourself. Eitehr that you are one of those spending money on this features. You know, they design the games this way because they know there are weak and low self steemed people willing to pay for it, because they dropped so hard that spending their life in games is not enough, now they will also give their money away on them.

Don´t be one of them. Be better.

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No, I think it´s smart. They are taking adventage of insane people who defend it.

Seeing how many there are, well, the future of gaming is sealed. I´ts been an honor to have been there when it did matter tho I guess we now move on with our careers, families, hobby cars etc and let these insane individuals fuel this derailed industry.

Fuck it, I´m out of it afer Wrath classic. At least I´ll go out in a high... definitely not going down the road of this new game design industry (it is clearly staying because the world is full of brain dead morons. If something they might regret they didn´t start it earlier).

You misunderstood me. I meant people defending this is pure insanity

[kenn9530]

No you don't. You can tradee with other means, but yes the premium Tab automates a lot of stuff.

Granted, a one time purchase forever is not a predatory system to me.

Without a premium stash you are unable to list what you want to sell so you are gimped in the ability to earn lots of currency, most players in PoE will spend at least the amount of what a game is sold for usually because they want thier char to actually look nice and have some handly QoL features because the stock inv is not suitable at all.

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Trading via listing is a powerful aspect of the game. Though you don't need to engage in trading at all to progress. It's not required and trading can still occur person to person. Many play without trading and SSF is hugely popular. I am only taking issue with the wording that you used "have to" and "progress" and that is simply not true.

A useful and powerful tool, sure. Though there is no necessary spending in the way of progressing through Path of Exile. It's not especially difficult either because the circumvention of RNG is still tied to the requirement of luck and time- which tabs have no mechanical effect on.

People play and demonstrate the game at a very high level of play completely SSF all the time. That as a mechanical aspect invalidates any assertion otherwise that it is required to spend money to make progress. It's a contradiction mechanically.

That is not the case in Diablo Immortal expressly; you can condense play with the gameplay components of luck via spending. It's not required either, but you are able to distinctly avoid a gameplay aspect by spending money.

That can not be done in Path of Exile.

To actually do things in the game like clear maps and bosses and such you need to trade, no trading you will be lucky to even do your map progress so its kinda forced you have to buy a premium stash and a few other QoL features to actually progress in the game. Most ppl who play PoE have bought a few QoL features and those shiney things to make your char not look like a peasant.

Im not that big on the trading in PoE and it gets very hard to progress if you ignore it.

[Sluvs]

But you're missing the point that we're trying to raise the alarm on. What MTX things from the mobile game could potentially see it's way to the PC focused retail game?

For instance, it's not out of the realm of possibility that we do see a battle pass system with D4 where there's a free rewards line vs a premium rewards line (i.e. WoT Battle Pass, The Division Season Pass, CoD Battle Pass)

Additionally, there's a question of whether player power could be bought via MTX in D4. And to what extent of player power that could represent? Are we looking at extra character slots or are we looking at a "premium" buff that could increase XP gains (e.g. Lost Ark's Crystalline Aura)? Or could MTX come in the form of extra QoL items (i.e. PoE Stash tabs)

Moreover, job posting for a In-Game Marketing position at Blizzard seems to indicate that we should expect to see more in-game things to purchase. We hope it's just cosmetics and maybe a future expansion/add-on content but it could also be numerous other things that we're cautioning against.

Additionally, once the door is open to MTX, it's harder for the company to justify not putting in those elements for future games. Even if it's only 0.001% of the player base that buys XYZ, that's still a positive financial benefit to the company's bottom line.

But you're missing the point that we're trying to raise the alarm on. What MTX things from the mobile game could potentially see it's way to the PC focused retail game?

For instance, it's not out of the realm of possibility that we do see a battle pass system with D4 where there's a free rewards line vs a premium rewards line (i.e. WoT Battle Pass, The Division Season Pass, CoD Battle Pass)

Additionally, there's a question of whether player power could be bought via MTX in D4. And to what extent of player power that could represent? Are we looking at extra character slots or are we looking at a "premium" buff that could increase XP gains (e.g. Lost Ark's Crystalline Aura)? Or could MTX come in the form of extra QoL items (i.e. PoE Stash tabs)

Moreover, job posting for a In-Game Marketing position at Blizzard seems to indicate that we should expect to see more in-game things to purchase. We hope it's just cosmetics and maybe a future expansion/add-on content but it could also be numerous other things that we're cautioning against.

Additionally, once the door is open to MTX, it's harder for the company to justify not putting in those elements for future games. Even if it's only 0.001% of the player base that buys XYZ, that's still a positive financial benefit to the company's bottom line.

I'm not missing the point. I get it.

You guys are afraid that MTX can worm their way into D4. That argument I can understand and get behind.

My point is that using D:I as a benchmark for this does not work as well as many people think because the monetization is 100% different. Immortal basically lure people in with the Free to Play label. And the agressive monetization is created to balance that. If they create a 60 dollar game with agressive MTX like D:I, it would probably be throughly thrashed and its commercial success would be in jeopardy.

My point is that both are not easily mixed

Now, a battle pass I could definitely see happening sadly. Selling any real power I really think it be beyond stupid for them to try, but cosmetics are basically guaranteed at this point, even if I really dislike it.

You are worried about MTX, but MTX are already here. Odyssey basically blowed that door open years ago. And it is still going strong. On the other hand, Shadow of War had the same thing but it was so criticized that it had its MTX dramatically reduced.

I actually think there is plenty of worries that are warranted. What is not warranted though is claiming that just because D:I is P2W, D4 will also be P2W. Mainly when they have already said that it will be about cosmetics. They are 2 different beasts made for 2 different target audiences.

D:I is sad. But it is expected from a mobile game.

Not saying that we should change our attitude. I still think we should be actively against MTX in retail priced game and should be vocal about it. But that was never my point.

[Fencers]

To actually do things in the game like clear maps and bosses and such you need to trade, no trading you will be lucky to even do your map progress so its kinda forced you have to buy a premium stash and a few other QoL features to actually progress in the game.

I disagree and would say that is a false claim. I have done without trading occasionally and still progress seasonally. Others do so as well in SSF.

You can't even circumvent the gameplay cause of trading. Since you would need drops to trade regardless of the trade listing access.

It's not the same as dropping crests to get guaranteed legendary drops which do circumvent the cause of gameplay.

[kenn9530]

I disagree and would say that is a false claim. I have done without trading occasionally and still progress seasonally. Others do so as well in SSF.

You can't even circumvent the gameplay cause of trading. Since you would need drops to trade regardless of the trade listing access.

It's not the same as dropping crest to get guaranteed legendary drops which do circumvent the cause of gameplay.

Its not false, without trading progress halts you dont get enough maps or get maps you actually need to progress, you are also unable to make proper builds because some items may never even drop for you, anyone who has played the game 100 hours or more has spent money on the game so you already have the QoL features, the false claim is you saying you have not spent any more on PoE at all.

Without trading at all is going to take 10 times or longer to get things done and require a ton more gameplay and you are still not guaranteed to progress. Some builds require key items to actually make them useful and no matter how lucky you get you might never get those items.

[DeltaLimaCharlie]

I'm certain it'll be strictly cosmetics and probably some sort of battle pass. It's extremely unlikely they'd put in any sort of pay-to-win purchases in the store. This isn't a game being put on a platform largely exploited with pay-to-win features (mobile). It's primary target demographic are largely opposed to this sort of thing especially in Western regions. Diablo Immortal isn't an example of what to expect from Diablo 4 MTXs, it's an example of why they wouldn't extend this practice towards a platform and audience that largely opposes this.
In fact I'd go as far as to say that this was probably the reasoning behind the original decision to not release Immortal on PC (although it was probably always doomed to receive backlash, as largely Diablo fans are not well acquainted with this sort of practice especially on this scale).

[Gaidax]

I think people pretty have much resigned to this full priced game having cosmetics MTX. I just hope that Blizzard would stop only there and maybe some convenience like extra storage.

D:I was a great shame and I don't think they'd want to turn D4 in such a meme given it's not a mobile game, so they can't quite fall back on hordes of mobile gamers used to predatory MTX crap.

[Beefhammer]

Not really, they don't sell gems directly and the crest just guarantees a drop, but you still can get drops without paying.
If anything it's just a time saver.

back in the day p2w was when you could buy more power than available thru normal play.

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No. They didn't.

Even the definition of p2w was different back then.
Today everything is p2w. Except cosmetics.

P.S. Can't wait for the first game to implement fashion contests with real prizes - so even cosmetics will be p2w.

Hell the original P2W was the kid who had more quarters a d no one bitched it was unfair they were poor.

[Delekii]

Without a premium stash you are unable to list what you want to sell so you are gimped in the ability to earn lots of currency, most players in PoE will spend at least the amount of what a game is sold for usually because they want thier char to actually look nice and have some handly QoL features because the stock inv is not suitable at all.

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To actually do things in the game like clear maps and bosses and such you need to trade, no trading you will be lucky to even do your map progress so its kinda forced you have to buy a premium stash and a few other QoL features to actually progress in the game. Most ppl who play PoE have bought a few QoL features and those shiney things to make your char not look like a peasant.

Im not that big on the trading in PoE and it gets very hard to progress if you ignore it.

Nonsense, people do it all the time. SSF doesn't trade and it's not hard to progress maps at all; it's just slower.

And again, let's reiterate that you can buy every stash tab in the game for $80, or you can buy the primary ones needed for $40, and if you only want one to trade its $15 for a quad tab. That is permanent, across all characters on the account, forever. Comparing this to DI is monumentally misrepresenting a false equivalence.

[shadowmatrix]

This, this right here is the problem. This kind of garbage has been accepted and normalized by the modern gaming community.

Back in the day I took my hard earned $15 down to KB Toys and bought an entire Colecovision game on cartridge. No microtransactions, just hours of affordable fun.

Back in the day players didn't constantly ask for updates. You want new characters in your fighting game, that's a new full price game. You found a game after the store warranty ran out, gotta buy a another copy. Your disc gets a scratch, buy another copy. Times have changed and pricing models have changed with new player requests. These days players claim Blizzard abandoned Starcraft 2, back in the day we viewed it as the game having run it's course.

[Garretdejiko]

The listing in question, which is for a Product Manager for Diablo 4, reveals that the successful candidate "will play a critical role in managing the Diablo 4 in-game store experience," which is described by the listing as "a key component of the game's seasonal content strategy." Whoever gets the job will also be responsible for identifying sales trends and quantifying purchase behaviors, as well as using tools to configure prices and availability within the in-game store.

https://gamerant.com/diablo-4-diablo...otransactions/

The job add in question:

https://careers.blizzard.com/global/...ager-Diablo-IV

I would be surpised if it didn't. As long as it's not p2w mtx, it's fine.

[Biomega]

I would be surpised if it didn't.

Considering they've already announced it will have MTX, yes, I also would be VERY surprised if it didn't

[Cthulhu 2020]

I would be surpised if it didn't. As long as it's not p2w mtx, it's fine.

They say they've designed their MTX shop "Around cosmetic items" but they never specifically stated that there would be no player power buyable from the store. I would have given Blizzard the benefit of the doubt before... but D:I ruined that with its "You can't buy gear from the shop" "Well gems aren't gear!"

They've shot player trust in the head.

[Garretdejiko]

They say they've designed their MTX shop "Around cosmetic items" but they never specifically stated that there would be no player power buyable from the store. I would have given Blizzard the benefit of the doubt before... but D:I ruined that with its "You can't buy gear from the shop" "Well gems aren't gear!"

They've shot player trust in the head.

Yeah, i was on the process of making a snarkier post, but lost interest in the same way I did with shadowlands. Good will is not on their side

[Fencers]

Its not false, without trading progress halts you dont get enough maps or get maps you actually need to progress, you are also unable to make proper builds because some items may never even drop for you, anyone who has played the game 100 hours or more has spent money on the game so you already have the QoL features, the false claim is you saying you have not spent any more on PoE at all.

Without trading at all is going to take 10 times or longer to get things done and require a ton more gameplay and you are still not guaranteed to progress. Some builds require key items to actually make them useful and no matter how lucky you get you might never get those items.

These are not gameplay requirements. This is about Diablo and its microtransactions so I am not going to detail your errors here. But if any aspect of any game is not expressly required in the gameplay it is 100% irrelevant. Gameplay is the only purpose of video games. Nothing else.

[Endus]

These are not gameplay requirements. This is about Diablo and its microtransactions so I am not going to detail your errors here. But if any aspect of any game is not expressly required in the gameplay it is 100% irrelevant. Gameplay is the only purpose of video games. Nothing else.

This is probably overly-narrow. Trading's a part of PoE. There's no distinction between "expressly required" and "not required" gameplay. If I'm happy toodling around the starter village, would it matter if I was barred from ever leveling up beyond level 1 without paying money for each level? Does that mean "leveling up" is "not expressly required in the gameplay", since you can still log in and run around the town? You're fundamentally distinguishing based on what you subjectively want to get out of the game.

Like, as a personal non-MTX example, I used to play a bunch of TF2 waaay back, and I mostly played on silly-ass servers where we did stupid stuff and tried to break/twist mechanics, race maps, shenanigans maps, etc. Definitely not the "expected way to play", by the base design. How would you define "expressly required" in that kind of sense? It just doesn't fit. Nor would I have expected my fringe interests there to somehow guide Valve's development and priorities.

We don't even know what the price point and such is gonna be, for D4. Maybe it'll be free and paid for by shop purchases. Maybe it'll be $70 and still have the same shop purchases. Maybe it'll fail, maybe it'll be an explosive success regardless. People have been chanting that MtX are gonna kill games for basically every game series that's come out with any kind of in-game shop, and the times they've been right have been dwarfed by the times they were totally wrong. All you can really do is make informed choices. I've been a big fan of Diablo, and won't be playing DI for a bunch of reasons, and may or may not pick up D4, depending on how it goes. But people were rabidly against D3, back when launched, and I bought it at launch and enjoyed my time plenty with it over the years, though I keep playing sporadically at best.