The night warrior arc had no purpose, right?

[bloodmoth13]

"If you kill your enemies they win" is the dumbest story beat in any media. If you kill your enemies, especially when its literally one LAST enemy like Sylvanas was in Shadowlands after we beat the Jailer YOU win. She cant come back this way, if she is dead, and she can stay in Shadowlands.

Now she can pop back to Azeroth at any fucken minute when Danuser cries enough tears on Microsoft exec carpet and forces the writing team by bullying Golden like he did last time because old bag cant stand for herself apparently.

Her "punishment" is not eternal, she even had fucken Anduin coming to chat with her. If it was "punishments" she would be forbidden from interacting with anybody in the Maw, and nobody would be allowed to visit. She would essentially work in isolation, not knowing if it was days, weeks or ages. And there is a very finite amount of souls in the Maw, you know, after Jailer grinded most of them to anima dust. Its a LOT but its not "eternally" lot. Its not even "ten thousand years" lot. She will be back by the end of next expansion, i mean expansion AFTER Dragonflight.

Any time you can cut the enemy's throat - do it. And i mean "an enemy" not "rival", "opponent" or anything of that sort, The Enemy.

Ugh its not a story beat, we're literally in the afterlife, she has literally died 9 times or whatever. Killing her does what exactly? she dies properly and what? she turns up where? exactly where she is? in the afterlife? whats the point? oh now shes free of the eternal suffering that comes with being undead? good for her!

It has nothing to do with being the bigger man its about spite, taking from her what she always desired. Killing her literally rewards her, leaving her inhabiting a rotten corpse and forcing her into endless servitude is a far bigger punishment then letting her off.

People who want her dead completely miss the point, i get that all they really want is to have her out of the story and they dont really give a shit about the narrative but killing her is a reward not a punishment. Its the eternal rest she wanted since warcraft 3.

I get peoples anxiety about her showing back up too soon but shes out for at least 3 expansions, we had illidan return and that was handled pretty well, hes not chilling out at a tavern now hes Sargeras's jailor, he didnt come back next xpac, or the xpac after or the one after that, hes out of the story now for 3 consecutive expansions (just how it should be) and i expect sylvanas will be the same. When she does come back it would probably be some segue into another death themed expansion, which would be at least 4 expansions away surely.

Killing her just denies her the consequences of her actions, its an incredibly lazy end to her arc. Tyrande sentencing her to what would realistically be an eternity of punishment is very fitting. There is a LOT i hate about both of their stories but the end was actually a perfect fit.

As for anduin visiting, denying him access to her is a punishment to anduin not her, she didnt request his audience, he went to her. Visitors are allowed to visit prisoners in real life too, thats a stupid complaint, and for what its worth i think its stupid that he did at that point in that way, and i also think its stupid that khadgar visits the shadowlands too, its starting to feel like a tourist destination.

[VladlTutushkin]

Ugh its not a story beat, we're literally in the afterlife, she has literally died 9 times or whatever. Killing her does what exactly? she dies properly and what? she turns up where? exactly where she is? in the afterlife? whats the point? oh now shes free of the eternal suffering that comes with being undead? good for her!

It has nothing to do with being the bigger man its about spite, taking from her what she always desired. Killing her literally rewards her, leaving her inhabiting a rotten corpse and forcing her into endless servitude is a far bigger punishment then letting her off.

People who want her dead completely miss the point, i get that all they really want is to have her out of the story and they dont really give a shit about the narrative but killing her is a reward not a punishment. Its the eternal rest she wanted since warcraft 3.

I get peoples anxiety about her showing back up too soon but shes out for at least 3 expansions, we had illidan return and that was handled pretty well, hes not chilling out at a tavern now hes Sargeras's jailor, he didnt come back next xpac, or the xpac after or the one after that, hes out of the story now for 3 consecutive expansions (just how it should be) and i expect sylvanas will be the same. When she does come back it would probably be some segue into another death themed expansion, which would be at least 4 expansions away surely.

Killing her just denies her the consequences of her actions, its an incredibly lazy end to her arc. Tyrande sentencing her to what would realistically be an eternity of punishment is very fitting. There is a LOT i hate about both of their stories but the end was actually a perfect fit.

As for anduin visiting, denying him access to her is a punishment to anduin not her, she didnt request his audience, he went to her. Visitors are allowed to visit prisoners in real life too, thats a stupid complaint, and for what its worth i think its stupid that he did at that point in that way, and i also think its stupid that khadgar visits the shadowlands too, its starting to feel like a tourist destination.

Now for her coming back and comparison to Illidan… Illidan was featured in exactly TWO expansions. He was TBC end boss and Legion quest giver character and big “setpiece” type of figure.

He was not fucking around Azeroth before TBC and after he was dead until Legion.

Now imagine if he was constantly present on the planet in an impossibly obnoxious role , constantly being a pain in the ass for one faction and a war crime perpetrator for another. Because thats what Sylvanas was. Her coming back in ANY way would be entirely disgusting.

Because Horde shifted ALL the blame on HER ALONE. Do you UNDERSTAND that this whole “armstice” only hinged on “it was all her, not us, nothing us” clause? And you suggest getting her back? She would be killed instantly, tbh, who would even let her back?

Its a shit fit and only serves Danuser’s self interest of bringing her back eventually because he cant stop simping for a nanosecond.

[loras]

I was thinking again about the night warrior arc and I feel like I missed something, because if I remember it correctly, it was completely useless and did nothing for the story.

What happened?
Darkshore gets attacked, NEs lose
Tyrande goes Night warrior, attacks Darkshore again and contributes to the victory, however not in any extremely meaningful way. She then faces off against Nathanos, who was NOT infused with Jailer power like Sylvanas was. She should have been able to easily beat him even without the NW power, but even with it, she can not kill him.
SL happens and she joins the frey, jumps into the maw and starts killing Jailor forces, which we later learn are basically endless.
She makes it to Torghast and we help her kill the Amalgam of Souls, which again was no impact on anything, except destroying those NE souls so they don't have to suffer anymore. This could also have been done by the maw walker alone, she was just "tagging along"
We then go on a long quest line to help Tyrande learn how to control the Night Warrior Power and in the end she succeeds.
She uses her newfound control to attack Sylvanas and in the last moment before she kills her, for yet unknown reasons she loses her Night Warrior Powers for a few moments, allowing Sylvanas to escape.
We will most likely never know why (remember: Elune only learns about the whole Jailer/Maw situation and Sylvanas much later, there is even a cinematic about it)
We fight Sylvanas and beat her, without Tyrande, and afterwards get the "you have to chose between vengeance and renewal" part, and she basically gives up the NW powers again.

Wtf happened here and why did this storyline exist? What did I miss?

As others pointed out it did have some meaningful interactions (i.e. Elune's reconciliation, and parts of Darkshore's reconquest can be attributed to her as well).

The issue though is that most of the consequences were not tied to things people care about, leaving her with just a midest role in Darkshore's reconquest.

Doing things in the land of the dead is a bit like doing things in a dream; few outside of it are going to notice, let alone care.

Had SL been a more engaging experience then this would have been less of a problem.

[Feanoro]

Sure it had a purpose, bait and switch for the few Night Elf fans left, following the ever popular Blizzard Defense Force lines like "Wait and see!" or "Don't criticize until you've seen the whole thing!"

It promised that the Horde's latest genocide would be punished, but anyone who hadn't joined this franchise in Legion knew damn well that was a lie. The Horde has NEVER paid for any of its atrocities and never will. The Alliance message has been "Victims should not seek justice" since WC3, and that has been reinforced over and over. So since it didn't deliver on its promise, what did the Night Warrior arc accomplish?

- It once again pushed the message that justice is vengeance.

- It showed again that the Horde can just put all the blame for the latest atrocity on a single individual and suddenly be absolved.

- It utterly destroyed Elune by demoting her to the level of a 3D printed robot, as well as portraying her as an uncaring idiot. "I'll let my people burn to death to help out a realm I clearly know nothing about."

- It gave the murdered Night Elves the chance to be obliterated for a seed and a vague promise, while the Alliance can't wait to once more help creatures that planned their extermination.

- It finished off the Night Elves as a race to be taken seriously. Their role is cemented as what we saw in Cata, punching bags for the Horde with their supposed allies at most wringing their hands and saying "Yes, that's bad, but have you considered the Horde's feelings in this?"

- It demonstrated the writers' Horde bias with thirty foot high neon lights for anyone not utterly blind. As written, Tyrande already was more than a match for Nathanos, yet power that could solo an Old God could only mildly inconvenience a zombie with a bow? She accomplished exactly jack shit with those powers.

[Aucald]

Demon Soul chapter 8 is about the Moonguard and Illidan/Malfurion/Rhonin pushing back the legion with spellwork and was one of the turning points of the war. The Priestess of Elune show up....as warriors and while singing, their prayers empowered the Night Elven warriors and fighters as if it were night time, as Night Elves are a Nocturnal, and their powers (at the time) were actually stronger at night.

The Priestess of Elune show up in a support role, yes; using their powers to bolster the other fighters as well as doing some fighting themselves (as the War of the Ancients was of course an "all hands on deck" type of scenario). And your quote from the Warcraft Encyclopedia underscores what I said above in the very first line: "Strongly associated with healing, peace, and tolerance...", even the description of the Night Warrior there is less about being a front-line warrior and more about serving in a role as a battlefield psychopomp, collecting the souls of the valiant dead to be taken to the afterlife.

The performing of sacrifices, especially those of weapons of war, actually fits nicely into Elune's themes as a goddess of peace - celebrating the end of the war (thus the now ownerless weapons) and the resumption of peace.

As for the War of the Satyr, by Blizzards own mouth, the Night Elven victory was so thorough that the Satyr are still unable to recover.

In fact, by Blizzards own admission, it's happened several times. And Tyrande was the general. She, as Elune's High Priestess and General.... is all in on Total war.

The Satyr themselves were only leftovers from the Legion's forced departure from Azeroth, so that's a lot less of an accolade when you consider that Xalan and his forces nearly won, and the victory was costly to the point of nearly being pyrrhic. You see the same basic riff in the War of the Shifting Sands, as well, where the Kaldorei forces were battled to a standstill by the Qiraji, and required the intercession of the dragons (whom the Qiraji unwisely angered) in order to bring to an end, with another high cost.

Heck, for the final thing, which is ultimately just the original thing.. Look at WC3.

Tyrande had not a single healing ability. It was all combat or combat support oriented, ending with Starfall.

My point is, Elune is very much a peaceful goddess.... But almost every depiction of her in WoW is followed with a very heavy "but"..

"Elune is a goddess of peace....buuuuut she also takes blood sacrifices of her enemies and blesses those who give them to her with gifts"

Even Worgen, who are more aggressive, more dangerous, actually contagious, etc... are buffed by the Staff of Elune tied on to the Fang of Goldrinn. Her influence and power plays a significant role in going from Pack Form to Worgen.

Like I said previously, I'm not saying Tyrande isn't a warrior. But even with her loadout in WC3, she's got a strong support angle in the form of her Trueshot Aura (providing passive bonuses to her fellow troops) and her Owl serving as a scout. She's an Agility-based Hero with an emphasis on ranged, hit-and-run style tactics. As for the Worgen, their ferocity comes mostly from Goldrinn's influence and the connection to the Wolf Ancient, of whom Elune is deeply critical as previously mentioned. Like the Night Warrior ritual, the Pack Form itself is another dangerous and forbidden practice, due to the loss of control that the Worgen suffer. In point of fact, it takes the tranquil and harmonious influence of Elune herself to bring balance to the Worgen and grant them their ability to resume their humanoid forms.

[VladlTutushkin]

Sure it had a purpose, bait and switch for the few Night Elf fans left, following the ever popular Blizzard Defense Force lines like "Wait and see!" or "Don't criticize until you've seen the whole thing!"

It promised that the Horde's latest genocide would be punished, but anyone who hadn't joined this franchise in Legion knew damn well that was a lie. The Horde has NEVER paid for any of its atrocities and never will. The Alliance message has been "Victims should not seek justice" since WC3, and that has been reinforced over and over. So since it didn't deliver on its promise, what did the Night Warrior arc accomplish?

- It once again pushed the message that justice is vengeance.

- It showed again that the Horde can just put all the blame for the latest atrocity on a single individual and suddenly be absolved.

- It utterly destroyed Elune by demoting her to the level of a 3D printed robot, as well as portraying her as an uncaring idiot. "I'll let my people burn to death to help out a realm I clearly know nothing about."

- It gave the murdered Night Elves the chance to be obliterated for a seed and a vague promise, while the Alliance can't wait to once more help creatures that planned their extermination.

- It finished off the Night Elves as a race to be taken seriously. Their role is cemented as what we saw in Cata, punching bags for the Horde with their supposed allies at most wringing their hands and saying "Yes, that's bad, but have you considered the Horde's feelings in this?"

- It demonstrated the writers' Horde bias with thirty foot high neon lights for anyone not utterly blind. As written, Tyrande already was more than a match for Nathanos, yet power that could solo an Old God could only mildly inconvenience a zombie with a bow? She accomplished exactly jack shit with those powers.

I dont even understand the point of night elves staying in the Alliance after all that. Whats the reason to be a part of a coalition that keeps abandoning you every time you really need their help?

At least on their own night elves could focus their whole army on protecting their lands instead of supporting Alliance all over Azeroth and being told to forgive the Horde after that.

[Accendor]

The Watchers, which is the organization that the Warden belong to answer "directly" to Tyrande Whisperwind (and since Stormrage, Malfurion as well, as he didn't officially become a co-leader until Tyrande forced the issue). She is (was at the time) literally the ultimate authority they answer to. They were formed with them answering to nobody but Tyrande. They were tasked to obey her as the leader. Their authority did not supercede hers. They were in the wrong, they committed treason, and Tyrande dealt with the situation.

http://web.archive.org/web/201311140...21711655067648




I mean.. Rally who? It was deep in Nightmare corrupted land, infested by harpies, with everyone else already driven out, a corrupt Dragon roaming around (Not even Ysera, but the actual world boss Dragon), and she already had herself and someone who is wielding an artifact weapon that puts them on par with literal demi-gods. Like, as in lorewise not just gameplay. Plus, gamescale. How far away was she from other people? Who would the have to travel back.

Blizzard does not tell it's story well. Things are pretty easy to overlook, and they don't do a good job at stressing just how over the top we were in Legion.

Its a dungeon, even lorewise she had 5 people with artifacts with her, not just one.

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If the only reason for making this thread was to have people answer your question only for you to reply "No, those answers don't count" you could've saved us the trouble by not making the thread.

If I ask you which color the sky is, you answer purple and I tell you thats obviously wrong, it's not me who made a mistake by asking.

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Every story has a point, whether or not you think the story is good. Denying that is simply denying reality. Glad you and Accendor agree on that.

The idea that every story has a point, simple because it's a story is absurd and yes, I 100% disagree with that statement.

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Sylvania's is already dead, killing her isn't a punishment for her crimes. I know why people want her dead, they want her removed from the story, but it's a foolish resolution to her arc, it's literally her winning considering her arc since the end of wrath has basically been trying to find a peaceful death that arthas denied. Like, she killed herself, death is exactly what she wants, why reward her?
The correct resolution to her story is exactly what she got, effectively eternal punishment righting her wrongs. As long as she is shelved for 3 or more expansions or so.

Her punishment is not even close to eternal. On the contrary, freeing the remaining NE souls is a task she could effectively have solved by the start of DF so that she can accompany us to the first raid.

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the fact that the this power was actually called the "Night Warrior" and there was no actual name for it in Darnassian, says all that needs to be said for how poorly thought out and used this whole thing was. Clearly they had some plan for it but that was abandoned and it just turned into a plot device for "oh justice is vengeance" BS and for some "flashy cool" cinematics.

You know what - I never thought of that. Yes, the fact that there was no Darnassian name for it, is s great oversight and shows how bad the worldbuilding has become.
People might call this nitpicking, but there was a time where Blizzard paid attention to those details. You might not care about them, but if you do not hold Blizzard to their own standards, don't complain if the game sucks in other aspects as well

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Ugh its not a story beat, we're literally in the afterlife, she has literally died 9 times or whatever. Killing her does what exactly? she dies properly and what? she turns up where? exactly where she is? in the afterlife? whats the point? oh now shes free of the eternal suffering that comes with being undead? good for her!

It has nothing to do with being the bigger man its about spite, taking from her what she always desired. Killing her literally rewards her, leaving her inhabiting a rotten corpse and forcing her into endless servitude is a far bigger punishment then letting her off.

People who want her dead completely miss the point, i get that all they really want is to have her out of the story and they dont really give a shit about the narrative but killing her is a reward not a punishment. Its the eternal rest she wanted since warcraft 3.

I get peoples anxiety about her showing back up too soon but shes out for at least 3 expansions, we had illidan return and that was handled pretty well, hes not chilling out at a tavern now hes Sargeras's jailor, he didnt come back next xpac, or the xpac after or the one after that, hes out of the story now for 3 consecutive expansions (just how it should be) and i expect sylvanas will be the same. When she does come back it would probably be some segue into another death themed expansion, which would be at least 4 expansions away surely.

Killing her just denies her the consequences of her actions, its an incredibly lazy end to her arc. Tyrande sentencing her to what would realistically be an eternity of punishment is very fitting. There is a LOT i hate about both of their stories but the end was actually a perfect fit.

As for anduin visiting, denying him access to her is a punishment to anduin not her, she didnt request his audience, he went to her. Visitors are allowed to visit prisoners in real life too, thats a stupid complaint, and for what its worth i think its stupid that he did at that point in that way, and i also think its stupid that khadgar visits the shadowlands too, its starting to feel like a tourist destination.

Also once again for you, her punishment is the opposite of eternal.

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I dont even understand the point of night elves staying in the Alliance after all that. Whats the reason to be a part of a coalition that keeps abandoning you every time you really need their help?

At least on their own night elves could focus their whole army on protecting their lands instead of supporting Alliance all over Azeroth and being told to forgive the Horde after that.

Yes, that is 100% true as well.

[thottstation]

If Tyrande never became The Night Warrior... would it have mattered?

Nice to see I'm not the only one who wondered this.

[Maxilian]

Thank God they liberated Darkshore, a war-torn, Cataclysm-torn wasteland with like 1 town in total! Truly a major victory for the Alliance!

Regardless, it is an area full of resources.

And also the main connection for the NE with the rest of the world (excluding the Draneai island)

[VladlTutushkin]

Regardless, it is an area full of resources.

And also the main connection for the NE with the rest of the world (excluding the Draneai island)

Its UNINHABITABLE post-war lorewise. Its literally so bad that even animals have fled and only some carrions remain. Its basically an exclusion zone now.

[javierdsv]

It served two purposes actually:
- It was the catalyst of the creation of a new Tear of Elune, and thus the "seed" Tyrande received from the Winter Queen, seed that will probably become the greatest World Tree of Azeroth, the new home of the Night Elves. A tree that will probably will be connected to the death realm and will let beings like Ysera travel to and from Ardenweald.
- It repaired the lost bond between Elune and the Winter Queen (Whatever that means). This might have some relation to a future expansion and Elune as a whole.


Sure it all was written poorly, but that's what we can expect from Danuser yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

[VladlTutushkin]

It served two purposes actually:
- It was the catalyst of the creation of a new Tear of Elune, and thus the "seed" Tyrande received from the Winter Queen, seed that will probably become the greatest World Tree of Azeroth, the new home of the Night Elves. A tree that will probably will be connected to the death realm and will let beings like Ysera travel to and from Ardenweald.
- It repaired the lost bond between Elune and the Winter Queen (Whatever that means). This might have some relation to a future expansion and Elune as a whole.


Sure it all was written poorly, but that's what we can expect from Danuser yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

Frankly speaking i couldnt care less about those two dumb ditzes reconnecting. Both are incompetent klutzes (and its horrible that they were written as that) and the price of their little “family reunion” is way too high.

If anything it makes it feel that they dont care at all about “mortals” and act like some disconnected aristocracy who dines on oysters while commoners die of hunger.

[Varodoc]

Regardless, it is an area full of resources.

And also the main connection for the NE with the rest of the world (excluding the Draneai island)

Which resources?

Also, Auberdine and Lor'danel are both gone. What connection to the rest of the world?

[Celement]

It showed us the right thing for the victim to do is not choose justice but forgiveness it's a very important lesson blizzard wanted to get across.

[Iheartnathanos]

I was thinking again about the night warrior arc and I feel like I missed something, because if I remember it correctly, it was completely useless and did nothing for the story.

What happened?
Darkshore gets attacked, NEs lose
Tyrande goes Night warrior, attacks Darkshore again and contributes to the victory, however not in any extremely meaningful way. She then faces off against Nathanos, who was NOT infused with Jailer power like Sylvanas was. She should have been able to easily beat him even without the NW power, but even with it, she can not kill him.
SL happens and she joins the frey, jumps into the maw and starts killing Jailor forces, which we later learn are basically endless.
She makes it to Torghast and we help her kill the Amalgam of Souls, which again was no impact on anything, except destroying those NE souls so they don't have to suffer anymore. This could also have been done by the maw walker alone, she was just "tagging along"
We then go on a long quest line to help Tyrande learn how to control the Night Warrior Power and in the end she succeeds.
She uses her newfound control to attack Sylvanas and in the last moment before she kills her, for yet unknown reasons she loses her Night Warrior Powers for a few moments, allowing Sylvanas to escape.
We will most likely never know why (remember: Elune only learns about the whole Jailer/Maw situation and Sylvanas much later, there is even a cinematic about it)
We fight Sylvanas and beat her, without Tyrande, and afterwards get the "you have to chose between vengeance and renewal" part, and she basically gives up the NW powers again.

Wtf happened here and why did this storyline exist? What did I miss?

A textbook example of the Unsatisfying Arc, colloquially known as the Rey Arc. Pretty much industry standard at his point.

[Ferlion]

Its a dungeon, even lorewise she had 5 people with artifacts with her, not just one.

At this particular time, it was Tyrande and a single champion. This incident was resolved when Tyrande had to choose between the Temple of Elune and Malfurion, and she chose the temple. This led to the Tear of Elune and death of Ysera cinematic.

The dungeon was after this.

[VladlTutushkin]

It showed us the right thing for the victim to do is not choose justice but forgiveness it's a very important lesson blizzard wanted to get across.

I will never believe that it wasnt intentional. After all we DO know that Blizz often use their game to “teach important lessons” to players (as by the words of Christie Golden and some other devs).

[Maxilian]

Which resources?

Also, Auberdine and Lor'danel are both gone. What connection to the rest of the world?

Wood, leather and meat.

Connection to the rest of the world? I mean... Is the closest land that both the NE and Draneai have that have an easy to land area.

Note: Based on the information on the poster in my next comment, is mostly only wood resources and the connection to the rest of the world, even if noone can live on it, it can easily be used as a "path"

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Its UNINHABITABLE post-war lorewise. Its literally so bad that even animals have fled and only some carrions remain. Its basically an exclusion zone now.

Didn't know that! Thank you for the information!

Regardless it still should hold some resources, like wood, something that the Horde obviously need a lot, having in mind that it was the whole reason (or excuse) to invade Ashenvale, we don't know how rich in metals and other stuff is the area though.

[salate]

Didnt it bring another tear of elune, hence night warrior arc = new tree of life

[Soikona]

Didnt it bring another tear of elune, hence night warrior arc = new tree of life

Yes, but that’s apparently not enough for the OP.