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  1. #541
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    I mean, Worgen and Tauren are certainly both "monster races".

    I think you touch on an interesting point, though, in regards to a "werewolf CLASS". I think there's definitely a cool idea there, in some alternate universe. But I think you would have largely the same issue, if they remained in that form 100% of the time in combat, couldn't wear armor, and if you only had the female Worgen model to choose from.

    The HotS Greymane is a radically different situation. I would also note, A) his werewolf form actually LOOKS like a werewolf, and B) it still wears clothes/armor.
    The Dracthyr can also wear armor, just not the equippable type. Also the Greymayne’s wolf form has torn clothing/armor, which is something that also could be relegated to a barbershop.

    Point is, would Worgen players take that and a werewolf class over their current ability to wear full armor and transmog? I beg they would.

    Now for the record, I think if they look like ACTUAL dragons (even bipedal as they are), I'm with you, they wouldn't NEED armor in my mind. But if they aren't going to wear armor, then what's the point of making them LOOK like humans with scales? What's the point of making their bodies SO smooth and lacking distinctive detail, like scaled plating or ridges, spikes, etc?

    It just seems like a weird middle-ground to land on, which doesn't really do anything to justify its existence. If they're going to be humanoid, then let them wear armor. Or if you don't want them to wear armor, make them look truly draconic. This half-measure isn't going to make anyone happy.

    I mean, they literally look like Argonians from Morrowind -- except they can actually wear clothes are armor:

    We need to stop pretending that Dracthyr look remotely similar to that;


  2. #542
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So you’re arguing that someone rolling a warrior is more apt to choose a gnome with robot arms than a Tauren, Orc, or Human?
    Nope. My argument that someone who rolls a warrior is more apt to choose whatever race they want, based on the race's looks and/or racials.

    Also while Hunters offer robotic pets, the entire class is laced with decidedly non-tech animal/tracker abilities.
    Play marksmanship hunter with guns, robot pets and tech transmog.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by Au-burn View Post
    Ofc they have a set art style and it's been with us since Warcrat III. It may change but that's another story. Soythyr don't look like dragons.
    That’s because they are dracthyr. They are a type of draknoid. How on earth is this not the “wow art style”

  4. #544
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Nope. My argument that someone who rolls a warrior is more apt to choose whatever race they want, based on the race's looks and/or racials.
    And what race would they be more likely to pick? A huge, muscular Orc, or a diminutive cyborg Gnome swinging weapons larger than their entire body?

    Play marksmanship hunter with guns, robot pets and tech transmog.
    Yeah, if you squint enough you can completely ignore your main abilities having bow and arrow icons.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by Woods123 View Post
    That’s because they are dracthyr. They are a type of draknoid. How on earth is this not the “wow art style”
    Drakonids don't looks even a bit close to Soythyr. It's a goofy bottom heavy fursuit rather than a race whose design is based in WoW dragonkin. A comic relief skink lizard.

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by Au-burn View Post
    Drakonids don't looks even a bit close to Soythyr. It's a goofy bottom heavy fursuit rather than a race whose design is based in WoW dragonkin. A comic relief skink lizard.
    This is going to blow your mind, but dracthyr are a completely different type of draknoid, not the normal ones we are use to seeing. It’s literally spelt out for you that it’s brand new. That’s probably why they look, you know, different.

  7. #547
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    And what race would they be more likely to pick? A huge, muscular Orc, or a diminutive cyborg Gnome swinging weapons larger than their entire body?
    Again, they'll pick races based on what they like. If they like "huge, muscular orcs" they'll pick an orc race. If they like "diminutive, cyborg gnomes" they'll pick mechagnomes. I have not seen anyone, in the game, in the official forums, or here in MMO-Champion (aside from you) that ever said anything like "if only there was a tech class so I could play gnomes" or "I would only play gnomes if we had a tech class."

    To say that a race is unpopular "because there is no tech class" is an unfalsifiable claim to make. Not to mention dumb, of course.

    Yeah, if you squint enough you can completely ignore your main abilities having bow and arrow icons.
    If you play the game with your eyes glued to your hotkey bar instead of where your character is standing or where it's shooting... you have more problems than the lack of a tech class in the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  8. #548
    Comparing those two images, the differences are the skin color, the wings, tail and armor.

    The head shape, the legs, the size, the way the limbs are constructed are all very, very similar.

    Dye it blue, give it wings, armor and a tail and you'd have a pretty convincing "Argonian from 2 decades ago looking like a 2022 offering from Blizzard"

    That's not a GOOD thing. So hopefully we shall see a better offering from them when they are finally ready to show it off.

    Shouldn't be too long, 2022 is half over.

  9. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I have not seen anyone, in the game, in the official forums, or here in MMO-Champion (aside from you) that ever said anything like "if only there was a tech class so I could play gnomes" or "I would only play gnomes if we had a tech class."

    To say that a race is unpopular "because there is no tech class" is an unfalsifiable claim to make. Not to mention dumb, of course.
    You must have been gone the week that 75 billion people were saying they would love to play amputee diaper gnomes if only they could play a tech class. Blizzard then told them how you can use guns and have mech pets as a hunter.

    It's especially funny how he is trying to use that as an argument when "Technology based Tinker class" has been turned into a ghostbuster, a dragon summoner, alchemy user, super advanced scifi spacemagic Titan tech user. Literally a hunter with engineering and mech pets is a hundred times closer to an actual tinker than any of the concepts people have been creating and completely ok with having just to fit it into an expansion.

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by Woods123 View Post
    This is going to blow your mind, but dracthyr are a completely different type of draknoid, not the normal ones we are use to seeing. It’s literally spelt out for you that it’s brand new. That’s probably why they look, you know, different.
    Ofc they don't look normal, they look like shit with limbs. They are dragonkin but are designed like furrykin from a different game.

  11. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by Au-burn View Post
    Ofc they don't look normal, they look like shit with limbs. They are dragonkin but are designed like furrykin from a different game.
    It would be ridiculous if they made them look completely badass. Like, “oh you can be this elf or you can be this mega buff, huge sick looking dragon fuck that looks like he could eat any other race.”

    Cosmetic balance. It’s not like you have to stay in dragon form - or even play one. You people are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

  12. #552
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by haediff View Post
    It would be ridiculous if they made them look completely badass. Like, “oh you can be this elf or you can be this mega buff, huge sick looking dragon fuck that looks like he could eat any other race.”

    Cosmetic balance. It’s not like you have to stay in dragon form - or even play one. You people are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
    To be fair the elf forms are probably the most muscular elf we’ve seen in the game so far with literal 8 packs.

    I personally want to have more variety in body options mainly because the Dracthyr can’t wear armor outside of the barber shop. (Or at very least the possibility of fighting in visage form)

    And plus being so skinny doesn’t really sell the idea of being the “perfect soldier” for the dragonflights. It looks like if they’re silenced/locked out of their magic they’ll get snapped like a twig.
    The visage forms do better in terms getting that across.

  13. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by haediff View Post
    It would be ridiculous if they made them look completely badass.
    The word you are looking for is 'welcome'.

  14. #554
    Quote Originally Posted by haediff View Post
    It would be ridiculous if they made them look completely badass. Like, “oh you can be this elf or you can be this mega buff, huge sick looking dragon fuck that looks like he could eat any other race.”

    Cosmetic balance. It’s not like you have to stay in dragon form - or even play one. You people are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
    They intentionally fucked up the race because they would be too cool otherwise? Fucking hell... mate, no, fuck no.

    Bad design, that's all.

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    You must have been gone the week that 75 billion people were saying they would love to play amputee diaper gnomes if only they could play a tech class. Blizzard then told them how you can use guns and have mech pets as a hunter.

    It's especially funny how he is trying to use that as an argument when "Technology based Tinker class" has been turned into a ghostbuster, a dragon summoner, alchemy user, super advanced scifi spacemagic Titan tech user. Literally a hunter with engineering and mech pets is a hundred times closer to an actual tinker than any of the concepts people have been creating and completely ok with having just to fit it into an expansion.
    The irony is that the remakes I did of all the classes, I gave Hunters a 4th spec of Tinker..... since basically a Tinker is a WoW hunter in a mech suit instead of a pet. Traps, bombs, lazers, razor disks..... basically a concept of survival without a pet lends itself towards being a Tinker.

    I still very much so believe Tinker is only worth being a spec (not a class) and Hunter fits best for it.

  16. #556
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Again, they'll pick races based on what they like. If they like "huge, muscular orcs" they'll pick an orc race. If they like "diminutive, cyborg gnomes" they'll pick mechagnomes. I have not seen anyone, in the game, in the official forums, or here in MMO-Champion (aside from you) that ever said anything like "if only there was a tech class so I could play gnomes" or "I would only play gnomes if we had a tech class."

    To say that a race is unpopular "because there is no tech class" is an unfalsifiable claim to make. Not to mention dumb, of course.
    Which isn’t what I’m saying. I’m saying a race can be unpopular if there is no class that fits the race’s theme. Again, a Gnome cyborg that comes from a land of robots only being able to play medieval style classes is off-putting for players.


    If you play the game with your eyes glued to your hotkey bar instead of where your character is standing or where it's shooting... you have more problems than the lack of a tech class in the game.
    Irrelevant. The point is that the Hunter class is not a tech-based class. It’s a class based on Elven Archers, Dwarven Sharpshooters, and Rexxar-style Beastmasters. Having a beast with a mechanical skin doesn’t change that, and is why the vast majority of Hunters are elves. Elves fit the fantasy better.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    Comparing those two images, the differences are the skin color, the wings, tail and armor.
    Along with overall proportions, musculature, head structure and other things, which makes them very different from each other.


    Dye it blue, give it wings, armor and a tail and you'd have a pretty convincing "Argonian from 2 decades ago looking like a 2022 offering from Blizzard"
    You do know that just giving them wings and a tail greatly alters that model right?

  17. #557
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Which isn’t what I’m saying. I’m saying a race can be unpopular if there is no class that fits the race’s theme.
    And, like I said many times already, that is 100% your opinion, and only your opinion, without any basis on any real evidence.

    Again, a Gnome cyborg that comes from a land of robots only being able to play medieval style classes is off-putting for players.
    Again: that is 100% your opinion, nothing but your opinion, without any basis on any real evidence.

    Irrelevant. The point is that the Hunter class is not a tech-based class.
    I didn't say it is. I'm saying you could tailor it to pretend it's a tech-based class.

    Having a beast with a mechanical skin doesn’t change that.
    One: it's not "a beast with mechanical skin". They are robots.
    Two: you also have actual high-tech-looking guns you can use.
    Three: you also have the engineer profession to further customize your character in high-tech fashion.

    In any case, this has gone off-topic, so I'll just reiterate my original point and move on:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You have yet to demonstrate any sort of evidence of a race's popularity being heavy dependent on "class that fits".
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  18. #558
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And, like I said many times already, that is 100% your opinion, and only your opinion, without any basis on any real evidence.
    It’s an opinion backed by the majority of Druids being Night Elves, the majority of Zandalari being Druids, the majority of Monks being Pandaren, etc.

    Again: that is 100% your opinion, nothing but your opinion, without any basis on any real evidence.
    See above.


    I didn't say it is. I'm saying you could tailor it to pretend it's a tech-based class.
    Which isn’t as good as having a REAL tech class. It’s like saying a person wanting to play a Monk should be satisfied with an Enhancement Shaman using fist weapons. If Pandaren were stuck with that instead of the real Monk class they received, they’d be the lowest population race in the game sans mechagnomes.

  19. #559
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Along with overall proportions, musculature, head structure and other things, which makes them very different from each other.
    We can all see that simply isn't true. Don't go all amberheard here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You do know that just giving them wings and a tail greatly alters that model right?
    So basically they are them with wings a tail.... and that's our issue with it.

  20. #560
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    It’s an opinion backed by the majority of Druids being Night Elves, the majority of Zandalari being Druids, the majority of Monks being Pandaren, etc.

    See above.
    In short... you have no real evidence. Because night elves are a race that not only existed way back in the Warcraft 3 game as part of not just one, but two full playable campaigns, but also gained a lot of popularity because of it which translated into a lot of night elves for WoW. As for the Zandalari, their druid forms are really unique and different, considering you're dinosaurs instead of bears, cats, etc, which also helps boost the popularity.

    On top of that, the zandalari's main race being druids disproves your claim, since they have never been shown as a druid-like race and culture since ever, until BfA. In fact, if one were to assign a class to them, before BfA, people just kept picking paladins, since we had a lot of zandalari prelates using paladin abilities going around, but little to no zandalari druid.

    Also, mind explaining why almost half the tauren players are druids and not shamans or warriors, which are "their classes" according to Warcraft III? Same with trolls: why are roughly a third of the troll players druids, and not shamans? Why do the majority of blood elves are blood hunters, followed by paladins, if mage is "their class"? Those examples, and more, contradict your claims.

    Which isn’t as good as having a REAL tech class. It’s like saying a person wanting to play a Monk should be satisfied with an Enhancement Shaman using fist weapons. If Pandaren were stuck with that instead of the real Monk class they received, they’d be the lowest population race in the game sans mechagnomes.
    You don't know that. You're just making wild claims, hypothesizing by going on nothing but your own opinion and no real facts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

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