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  1. #61
    The Lightbringer zEmini's Avatar
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    I like the class selection for D4 a lot more that what we got for D3. Monk and WD just bored me and I barely played them.

  2. #62
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Just last week they were spinning the narrative that you cannot buy power in DI.
    Do you have any link to that? I have not been following their response.
    Honestly the only weird thing about DI MTX is not the P2W element, it's how insanely long the gem money grind is.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Do you have any link to that? I have not been following their response.
    Honestly the only weird thing about DI MTX is not the P2W element, it's how insanely long the gem money grind is.
    https://twitter.com/candlesan/status...63040102678528

    Specifically the "There is no way to acquire or rank up gear with money" at the beginning of the quote he was responding to. And saying you can't buy XP in the second reply. Even though you do get upgrade materials and XP from the battlepass for which levels can be bought. And upgrading legendary items to awakened requires that cash shop only material at almost $15 per piece. And ignoring that lategame EXP and gear requirements are essentially time gated while power gains from gems are not and account for a large percentage of power.

    Android Police: Can you explain in detail how the monetization is going to work?

    Wyatt Cheng: Yeah, the game is free-to-play. And this is great because it's going to allow millions of players to check out the game for themselves. We've just finished talking about things like the announcement, and one of the interesting things, the people who attended BlizzCon in 2018 that played the game, we had exit surveys that people could take and provide us feedback after they had played. Overwhelmingly, people said, "Wow! This game's good!" We realized that playing is believing. And so from a monetization standpoint, free-to-play is a great way where if you're not already convinced, give it a try.

    In terms of supporting the game, it will have optional in-app purchases. And we're sort of guided by a few different values in how we want make sure those in-app purchases are structured. It's really important to us that gameplay comes first, this is one of Blizzard's core values. So ideally, if you make a purchase, it should enhance the game and the game experience, rather than bypass it. So we're trying not to put in, say a blockade. We want make sure that the full game, that it's genuinely free-to-play, and that your purchases feel like bonuses.

    I have two quick examples for you. One is we have an item called a Legendary Crest. And what a Crest does is you can run an Elder Rift. An Elder Rift is a lot like a Greater Rift from Diablo III. An Elder Rift is a short, randomized experience. It takes about three to five minutes to clear the whole dungeon with a boss at the end. If you use a Crest, it can add a modifier to the rift, a random modifier. Sometimes, the modifier will make the dungeon experience harder; sometimes, it'll make it easier. But either way, when you reach the end, you get a bonus drop for the legendary gem.

    Another example of how we have in-app purchases is we have a Battle Pass. It's something that we've been seeing in a lot of games over the past few years. And I think done well, you can really structure the Battle Pass so that for the free-to-play player, they can progress along the Battle Pass and earn lots of rewards and have a good time. It also provides you with guidance in-game like, "Oh, what do I wanna do? Oh, let me work on this Battle Pass quest." And it's actually really fun to go and complete those Battle Pass quests 'cause it's providing your gameplay sessions with some structure.

    Android Police: Crests sound similar to a key system for loot boxes where you can pay for a chance to get an item that you want to get, I guess, with a gameplay element built into it. How do you feel that's going to affect the PVP for people that are paying to get more loot?

    Wyatt Cheng: I think the most important thing to remember is that for a player who just wants to make their character more powerful, the best way to do that is by playing the game. There are large portions of the game for which in-app purchases are not an option. So for example, legendary items, which are a very key part of any Diablo game. Those aren't for sale. And although we do sometimes have them on the free track of the Battle Pass, which means that they're available for everybody, you can't go into a shop and just buy legendary items. And if you wanna make your character more powerful, the best thing, the most effective thing you can do is get better legendary items, find extra items, and salvage them to rank up your items. And also like Paragon levels. We always wanna make sure that if someone says, "Hey, I wanna make my character more powerful," that just playing the game is always going to be your best option.
    Source: https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/0...ticipated-mmo/


    And a bonus from https://www.gamerbraves.com/diablo-i...-monetization/

    Diablo Immortal Deep Dive – Putting Gameplay Over Monetization

    After a good two years, Blizzard have finally shed some light on the upcoming Diablo Immortal, the mobile experience of the iconic Diablo franchise.

    In this deep dive, Wyatt Cheng, Lead Game Designer and Caleb Arseneaux, Lead Game Producer talk everything about Diablo Immortal, from its gameplay systems to even their commitment to making sure it’s not just a Diablo-flavored pachinko machine.
    ...
    Cheng says the game will not skimp on Diablo’s key gameplay just to make a quick buck.
    ...
    While they never explicitly said "Not P2W" they danced around the topic, picking their words extremely carefully. And this is why so many won't trust anything said about D4 until they can see it with their own eyes.
    Last edited by Jerot; 2022-06-14 at 09:06 AM.
    (This signature was clearly too awesome for the Avatar & Signature Guidelines and was removed to prevent further facemelting)

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerot View Post
    https://twitter.com/candlesan/status...63040102678528

    Specifically the "There is no way to acquire or rank up gear with money" at the beginning of the quote he was responding to. And saying you can't buy XP in the second reply. Even though you do get upgrade materials and XP from the battlepass for which levels can be bought. And upgrading legendary items to awakened requires that cash shop only material at almost $15 per piece. And ignoring that lategame EXP and gear requirements are essentially time gated while power gains from gems are not and account for a large percentage of power.



    Source: https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/0...ticipated-mmo/


    And a bonus from https://www.gamerbraves.com/diablo-i...-monetization/
    Thanks, had just started digging through it all. That about sums it up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  5. #65
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerot View Post
    https://twitter.com/candlesan/status...63040102678528

    Specifically the "There is no way to acquire or rank up gear with money" at the beginning of the quote he was responding to. And saying you can't buy XP in the second reply. Even though you do get upgrade materials and XP from the battlepass for which levels can be bought. And upgrading legendary items to awakened requires that cash shop only material at almost $15 per piece. And ignoring that lategame EXP and gear requirements are essentially time gated while power gains from gems are not and account for a large percentage of power.
    Actually I have it confirmed from a friend that you do NOT get the xpa if you buy the more expensive version of the battle pass. You get +10 ranks but you lose all the xp you would have gained from getting those ranks. Which in the end means you are at a loss since if you play the game you'd naturally get there (I'm at 31 and I don't really grind THAT much beyond Countess who refuses to drop my belt!)
    But yeah saying you can't rank up gear with money is a straight lie considering awakening.

    But really, we have multiple threads on Diablo Immortal. And we have a thread for possible MTX on Diablo 4. Maybe we should keep some place free from that particular debate?
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2022-06-14 at 10:49 AM.

  6. #66
    I just can't believe there isn't a holy magic class in a game about fighting demons and undead lmao

  7. #67
    Necromancer is a great choice, but I do wonder if that is all. I do think Paladin/Crusader would complete the roster there.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    I just can't believe there isn't a holy magic class in a game about fighting demons and undead lmao
    Seems kind of weird, yeah. I fully expect Paladin or Crusader (or some kind of similar class) to be the first purchasable class after launch - so that's probably why they didn't include it right away, since it being quite popular means more people will buy it. Certainly more than, say, would buy Druid or Necro.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Rad1um View Post
    And your initial reply was from, once again, a company that has proven to lie to its clientele to suit its own bottom line before the game has been released, I mean who's the dumb one? No offense. its not an OPINION that there will be in game transactions because if you had read the article, it clearly shows Blizzard is hiring for Diablo 4 in game shop "experience" personal. But keep thinking it'll just be "purely cosmetic"
    Do you have an actual quote where they said DI wasn't P2W? I have seen tons of not directly selling gear.

    I've seen Blizzard go out of their way to differentiate mobile and PC/console audiences. Knowing full well that mobile audiences don't really care about P2W practices in general and have not crossed that line with their PC/console games.

    Then I saw Blizzard, in lieu of all the negative attention DI has been getting over P2W monetization, reiterate their stance of no power, cosmetics and expansions monetization. Knowing full well, if this ends up being a lie, they probably just killed off Diablo for good.

    And no fucking shit there will be transactions. The linkis I gave you said there will be. Your like suggests they will have similar P2W shit DI has. Which was really an odd choice to post since it came out a week before the official word on the subject. Which was the same stance from 2019.

    Participating on another forum with actual game devs, they all see this hire as a nothingburger, since most games with a shop have these positions. I'd be willing to bet WoW has one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    I just can't believe there isn't a holy magic class in a game about fighting demons and undead lmao
    Because D4 is being designed as a GaaS from the start, they are going to be over creating content so they have a good pipeline ready to go. If you looked at the original silhouette, it was clearly a heavy armored character which didn't resemble any sort of Necro silhouette. Which led many of us to think Paladin type. But with the popularity of the Necro I D2R and DI, I think they decided to push the Necro to ride that wave first.

    ICBW and it was just a generic silhouette, but Blizzard is usually pretty deliberate with secretive messagive like this. It should be the frrst DLC class. Hopefully they offer classes as individual purchases as well as adding them with expansions.

  10. #70
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerot View Post
    https://twitter.com/candlesan/status...63040102678528

    Specifically the "There is no way to acquire or rank up gear with money" at the beginning of the quote he was responding to. And saying you can't buy XP in the second reply. Even though you do get upgrade materials and XP from the battlepass for which levels can be bought. And upgrading legendary items to awakened requires that cash shop only material at almost $15 per piece. And ignoring that lategame EXP and gear requirements are essentially time gated while power gains from gems are not and account for a large percentage of power.



    Source: https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/0...ticipated-mmo/


    And a bonus from https://www.gamerbraves.com/diablo-i...-monetization/



    While they never explicitly said "Not P2W" they danced around the topic, picking their words extremely carefully. And this is why so many won't trust anything said about D4 until they can see it with their own eyes.
    If you want to see something really funny, D:I also has hidden caps that aren't documented anywhere in D:I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forbes
    But then we get into the hidden caps. What echohack and his friends have found via gameplay is that:

    - After six legendary drops a day, your drop rate severely decreases for future drops.
    - After a group bonus for six normal gems a day, your drop rate severely decreases.
    - Side quests stop giving rewards after five per day.
    - Purple bosses stop giving rewards after five per day
    - Random map events stop giving rewards after five per day.
    - Zoltan Kule treasure rooms are limited to five per day.
    - Hidden Lair dungeons stop giving gem rewards after just a few completed sections.

    The problem becomes since all these caps are hidden, if you’re playing a lot of Diablo Immortal in a given day, you have to keep a mental tally of how many drops you’ve gotten or how many events you’ve completed in order to not trigger these caps and find yourself in a diminishing returns black hole where you’re essentially playing for nothing. For some of these, you can complete an event and get a treasure chests where quite literally nothing comes out of it.

    Keep in mind that all of these caps are in place for the “free grind” aspects of the game, yet there’s nothing stopping you from running infinite Rifts with bought Legendary Crests to hunt gems. But the game will literally dramatically reduce legendary gear drops if you get too many in a day. That’s absolutely wild, and I’m trying to imagine games like Borderlands or Destiny just…ceasing to drop legendary or exotic gear because you’ve gotten too many other drops in a set period of time. Incredible.
    - Link

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Necromancer is a great choice, but I do wonder if that is all. I do think Paladin/Crusader would complete the roster there.
    Sir, they want to deliver D4 by 2023. Do you actually think that Blizzard would be capable of designing and developing a whole class in a year? Be reasonable, man! /s

    Seriously though, Diablo games typically launch with 5~ classes to start. Like what they did with Reaper of Souls, they may add one or two new classes with each expansion; however, I hope they actually maintain D4 instead of abandoning it like they did D3.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Seems kind of weird, yeah. I fully expect Paladin or Crusader (or some kind of similar class) to be the first purchasable class after launch - so that's probably why they didn't include it right away, since it being quite popular means more people will buy it. Certainly more than, say, would buy Druid or Necro.
    It would be nice if that is a lore choice.
    I'm not into the Diablo lore all that much but it could be a consequence of the heavens losing power or people not willing to do the "sacrifices" necessary to wield it anymore.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    It would be nice if that is a lore choice.
    Unlikely. Even if there is lore justification - Blizzard are the ones writing the lore. If they do release it as the first for-purchase class, it's pretty much 100% because they think it'll make more money, and any lore reason they may give (if they even give one at all) is mere whitewash for that intent.

    But that's fine. I don't mind them selling classes. Class assets cost a lot of development resources. I'd rather have more classes and pay for them, than staying at fewer classes.

  13. #73
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    I just can't believe there isn't a holy magic class in a game about fighting demons and undead lmao
    The think about Paladins is that they bring hope with them. They are the literal knights in shining armor. They are not meant to lose.
    Paladins would dilute the grittiness and sense of hopelessness which very much seems to be the intent with D4. I could see a Templar that is more an inquisitor; grey rather than gold and white.

  14. #74
    Pit Lord RH92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    It would be nice if that is a lore choice.
    I'm not into the Diablo lore all that much but it could be a consequence of the heavens losing power or people not willing to do the "sacrifices" necessary to wield it anymore.
    The Lore says that Angels shut the gates of High Heavens after Malthael's attack to recover from the damage inflicted.

    Also with Malthael gone now, it is possible the Heavens decided not to interfere with Humanity. They voted before on whether to destroy humanity or leave them be. Auriel and Itherael voted to save them, Imperius obviously wanted to destroy them, Malthael abstained, forcing a tie for Tyrael to break. A tie ment they were going to destroy Sanctuary but Tyrael sided with humans, saving them. After latest events it could be possible the angels wanted nothing to do with Nephalem since it cost them so much.

  15. #75
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zEmini View Post
    I like the class selection for D4 a lot more that what we got for D3. Monk and WD just bored me and I barely played them.
    They were both such weird choices and they then added back the classes they effectively replaced with them. Demon Hunter instead of Amazon did work though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RH92 View Post
    The Lore says that Angels shut the gates of High Heavens after Malthael's attack to recover from the damage inflicted.

    Also with Malthael gone now, it is possible the Heavens decided not to interfere with Humanity. They voted before on whether to destroy humanity or leave them be. Auriel and Itherael voted to save them, Imperius obviously wanted to destroy them, Malthael abstained, forcing a tie for Tyrael to break. A tie ment they were going to destroy Sanctuary but Tyrael sided with humans, saving them. After latest events it could be possible the angels wanted nothing to do with Nephalem since it cost them so much.
    I think an interesting point is that Diablo Immortal seems to have added a new Archangel. We do not know their name beyond them being called "The Martyr" but they were associated with Temperance (one of the traditional heavenly virtues of Christianity). Other archangels also exist that are not members of the Angiris council; Inarius was one obviously but Yaerius who helped found the Zakarum also is named one. So it is possible that new members could be elevated to the Council to both make up for the loss of Malthael and to counter Imperius.

  16. #76
    Pit Lord RH92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think an interesting point is that Diablo Immortal seems to have added a new Archangel. We do not know their name beyond them being called "The Martyr" but they were associated with Temperance (one of the traditional heavenly virtues of Christianity). Other archangels also exist that are not members of the Angiris council; Inarius was one obviously but Yaerius who helped found the Zakarum also is named one. So it is possible that new members could be elevated to the Council to both make up for the loss of Malthael and to counter Imperius.
    It could be.

    However doesn't Diablo Immortal happen between events of D2 and D3? At the end of D3 we see Tyrael joining the council once again but as a 'Wisdom' this time. That was before Malthael went rogue though, who knows what happened after. We only know that the gates are shut.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Pay to get best gems =/ pay to get gear.
    Ah yes... the "I am technically not lying, I just didn't tell you the entire truth. " speak.

    Hate that kind of stuff... People addressed their concerns that the game would be pay to win, and their response was "No you can't buy gear."
    Good thing that gear doesn't actually really matter and that legendary gems give you the majority of your power gains. >.<

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    I just can't believe there isn't a holy magic class in a game about fighting demons and undead lmao
    I totally understand why they went with Necromancer in the game, but they definitely should have had a holy class as well.

    Like I get the game is supposed to be doom and gloom, but every doom and gloom story needs that one uplifting dude in the party who is like, "Yo, it's okay though! We might all die, but at least my magic is proof of some kind of holy entity so like.. there's that. Here, have a heal on me, friend."

  18. #78
    Blademaster Liberate90's Avatar
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    I wont lie, I was on the fence about getting D4 because Necromancer weren't in the initial reveal. I'm very happy to see Necromancer return, however it put me off in the trailer that they wield their scythe/mainhand and their shield in the wrong hands.

  19. #79
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberate90 View Post
    I wont lie, I was on the fence about getting D4 because Necromancer weren't in the initial reveal. I'm very happy to see Necromancer return, however it put me off in the trailer that they wield their scythe/mainhand and their shield in the wrong hands.
    Or maybe they are left handed. 10% of the population is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RH92 View Post
    It could be.

    However doesn't Diablo Immortal happen between events of D2 and D3? At the end of D3 we see Tyrael joining the council once again but as a 'Wisdom' this time. That was before Malthael went rogue though, who knows what happened after. We only know that the gates are shut.
    The main thing is, there may be other archangels outside the Council. And some might be outside Heaven. E.g. we have no idea what happened to Yaerius after they appeared to Akarat.

  20. #80
    Pit Lord RH92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    I totally understand why they went with Necromancer in the game, but they definitely should have had a holy class as well.

    Like I get the game is supposed to be doom and gloom, but every doom and gloom story needs that one uplifting dude in the party who is like, "Yo, it's okay though! We might all die, but at least my magic is proof of some kind of holy entity so like.. there's that. Here, have a heal on me, friend."
    I know what you mean, but that's not really how that works in Diablo.

    Necromancers in lore are not really evil or anything close to that. They are balance upholders. They believe both Demons and Angels are manipulating humanity into fighting their battles. And that's precisely what is happening, Angels voted on whether to destroy Sanctuary or not so it doesn't fall into Prime Evil's hands.

    In a way they are like Witchers of Diablo universe. Shunned by general public for their practices but what they are doing is ultimately with good intentions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The main thing is, there may be other archangels outside the Council. And some might be outside Heaven. E.g. we have no idea what happened to Yaerius after they appeared to Akarat.
    Not denying that. We know High Heavens are out of the game as a whole, but Angels going rogue is nothing new.

    There might be few Angels who are not happy with the current situation in High Heavens, running around trying to instigate something into changing that, reviving eternal conflict.

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