New talent trees lead to more customization

[Revamp Man]

Hear me out now....It works
Just in terms of a guardian druid there are 2 big playstyles i have found thanks to the mythic trap calculator (since WoWhead has less resources than a guy with spare time)
there is BIG thrash bear where aoe is not just massively damaging but also serves defensively like back in legion.

there is also arcane bear which works with the talents from the balance side of the general tree where you do give up some defensive abilities but gain a lot of arcane damage and healing.

a few other styles are healing bear, cat bear (finisher adding a bit of extra dps), and wall bear (full on defensive and healing power)


Important to note that in no way am i saying these will be highly used or balanced or the most "viable" but personally i think that is the great thing about this system because you literally can make a terrible terrible build but it will still function because the core rotation is just whatever talents you take. My feral druid rotation can be one finisher with a bunch of ranged abilities and some heals.


compared to now where the biggest customization comes from like 3 talent rows

[Gumble]

Nope. There isn't. Moonfire doesn't deal enough damage to make that playstyle work. Even with the 3 talents to buff it up, you are not going to get enough out of it to justify it.

The build for basically everything will be a variant of:

https://mythictrap.com/dragonflights...cl9g_mr95ox_2p


Everything else is just speccing sub-optimally. You can choose to buff 10% of your damage up alot, but it won't make Fetch happen.

[Celement]

They wont and they never have. Outside of the pvp talent system where you can talent around different comps this is just a repeat of the last talent tree overhaul and covenants, azerite, corruption, etc.

People dont pick random wacky bullshit. They want to be effective not unique.

The fact after early 20 years we have people larping otherwise makes me shake my head.

[Revamp Man]

Nope. There isn't. Moonfire doesn't deal enough damage to make that playstyle work. Even with the 3 talents to buff it up, you are not going to get enough out of it to justify it.

The build for basically everything will be a variant of:

https://mythictrap.com/dragonflights...cl9g_mr95ox_2p


Everything else is just speccing sub-optimally. You can choose to buff 10% of your damage up alot, but it won't make Fetch happen.

laser bear
https://mythictrap.com/dragonflights...6yxw_640c29_2p

also read the part where i said it isnt optimal but it is possible
we will eventually get the top theorycrafters sharing their tree but nothing right now is set in stone
and this is a bit more than 10% increase

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They wont and they never have. Outside of the pvp talent system where you can talent around different comps this is just a repeat of the last talent tree overhaul and covenants, azerite, corruption, etc.

People dont pick random wacky bullshit. They want to be effective not unique.

The fact after early 20 years we have people larping otherwise makes me shake my head.

you realize we have people who play the game and dont even swap talents right?? do you honestly think those players care about being optimal

[Groundwalker]

People dont pick random wacky bullshit. They want to be effective not unique.

The fact that the talent tree’s have random wacky bullshit is the problem, not the talent trees themselves.

[Glorious Leader]

Its crap. It adds nothing new and will be mathed to hell and
back. I have to pick tranquility as resto..
are youbfucking kidding me?

[Gumble]

laser bear
https://mythictrap.com/dragonflights...6yxw_640c29_2p

You didn't take Circle for a dot build? Yep.......

and this is a bit more than 10% increase

Moonfire isn't a large enough portion of your damage to make focusing that heavily into it worthwhile....

[Revamp Man]

You didn't take Circle for a dot build? Yep.......




Moonfire isn't a large enough portion of your damage to make focusing that heavily into it worthwhile....

do we have numbers for how much damage the abilities will do? and technically speaking we have more than just moonfire with this build

plus even just 10% chance at extra thrash gives more defensive value though you could drop it for circle and probably drop more for a build towards the convoke choice

[BigToast]

Icy veins will tell us what the best spec/talents are and if you deviate from that you will not be invited to raids and mythic+.

[A Chozo]

Icy veins will tell us what the best spec/talents are and if you deviate from that you will not be invited to raids and mythic+.

yep. blablabla illusion of choice the problems of the first talent trees haven't disappeared and will come back with Dragonflight.

Follow the guide, complain about cookie-cutter builds.

[Revamp Man]

Icy veins will tell us what the best spec/talents are and if you deviate from that you will not be invited to raids and mythic+.

that same argument was made when covenant trees came out and people wanted there to not be a lock on it
"you wont get invited though" is always BS

[Celement]

laser bear
https://mythictrap.com/dragonflights...6yxw_640c29_2p

also read the part where i said it isnt optimal but it is possible
we will eventually get the top theorycrafters sharing their tree but nothing right now is set in stone
and this is a bit more than 10% increase

- - - Updated - - -



you realize we have people who play the game and dont even swap talents right?? do you honestly think those players care about being optimal

Given covenant numbers before they were swappable not only do I know we showed the silent majority doesn't exist.

Yet we will repeat this derpy thing till the end of wow.

- - - Updated - - -

The fact that the talent tree’s have random wacky bullshit is the problem, not the talent trees themselves.

Will be blunt. At this stage in the games life the game would be better off without talent trees in the past the most impact they have had on the game was specing for st or cleave.

[Celement]

Umm..they were a little more impactful than that...look at paladin in tbc for one example. Wrath also had some different builds as wotlk classic will surely demonstrate.

When you say different builds you realize you are talking between patches and that there was only one build with maybe 4 fluff talents right?

I don't get why people larp about this weird game that never existed beyond maybe the first few months of the games launch.

Perhaps it's an idealized state rather then a honest review of events.

[Nymrohd]

Its crap. It adds nothing new and will be mathed to hell and
back. I have to pick tranquility as resto..
are youbfucking kidding me?

You can pick a passive to enhance an active, without that active being a prerequisite. The trees are just crazy. Let's hope they did not give us a second pair because they figured out how weird the first two were.

[Revamp Man]

You can pick a passive to enhance an active, without that active being a prerequisite. The trees are just crazy. Let's hope they did not give us a second pair because they figured out how weird the first two were.

if im reading this right the only way that happens is with passives that effect multiple active abilities

[Nymrohd]

if im reading this right the only way that happens is with passives that effect multiple active abilities

? It happens a lot. I mean you can find passives in the spec tree based on deep actives on the class tree. E.g. Innervate & Improved Innervate

[Celement]

Old talents > new talents. That's almost as objective as one can get in simplest terms. Not sure why your hate boner is so strong right now.

Also the fact remains, the old talents allowed for much more customization for one's character. Not everybody plays the game to be mathematically superior and min maxing to be the most efficient 24/7 ya know.

They didn't allow for more. It was just different passives unless you specced being full useless.

[Flevor]

How do we know there aren't just going to be cookie cutter builds like with the old talent trees? there is always a best build with these kind of trees isn't there?

[Selah]

This thread is interesting because it shows the dichotomy of the WoW playerbase very well. You have a group of people who are pointing out different builds saying they can play whatever spec they found in the tree and another group focused on min/maxing saying you can't play it because it's not viable.

So, here's a general rule of thumb about talent trees. You can play whatever build you want, as long as you're not hindering the group. You want to play lazer bear? Great, go for it! But, if you're unable to tank the group content you want to play then you have to accept that you might have to play a different build. Of course, that's all dependent on two things. One being your personal skill level, and two being the level of content you're playing at. If you just log in, do a few heroics, low level keys, and LFR/normal, odds are you can do whatever. However, if you're playing heroic/mythic raiding, high level keys, rated PvP, then you will likely not be able to get a group or will be kicked if your build isn't up to snuff. But, that's the beauty of having this system where we can just save builds and swap on the fly. Hit a button and you're whatever spec/build you need to be.

[ChairmanKaga]

If you just log in, do a few heroics, low level keys, and LFR/normal, odds are you can do whatever.

Once I realized this the game became alot more fun.